Oblivion Factions - You're never really "the boss"

[gibson]

I run these guilds show, LIKE A BOSS.

[Josjie]

I think the one everyone is overlooking is the main quest line.

Spoiler:

I mean, honestly. You save the entire country, spend days upon days helping everyone do live, and in the end, you can still go to jail for punching a peasant. You'd think the guards would give you some lee-way because of all the stuff you did for them - especially in the Imperial City, where Mehrunes decided to pop in and say hi - but they would rather fine their savior, throw him (or her) in prison, or even kill him (or her).

This is madness!

Sheogorath: Madness?! This ... IS ... Well, yes, it's madness, I think. But I'm not quite sure on the details.

To be fair, many of the guards will overlook small crimes and deal with your fines once they like you enough.

Still,

Spoiler:

You're the nation's hero! They should overlook murder!!!

To what end? If you kill 4 persons, that's ok, but if you kill number 5, they'll arrest you?
We must not forget that Oblivion is a game and is thus programmed. It's all scripted.

[Lord Hirotake]

I agree there,

Spoiler:

I mean, you help Martin kill Mehrunes Dagon, you save Cyrodiil, if not Tamriel, from his evil reign, and you walk into the streets and for something, as said, as simple as punching a peasent, or perhaps picking up an item that doesn't belong to you, the guards will attempt to jail you, fine you or kill you. It's just wrong! The only recognition you get is that upon walking near some people they'll say things such as "Oh my, it's the Champion of Cyrodiil!"

[King Acunasti]

I agree there,

Spoiler:

I mean, you help Martin kill Mehrunes Dagon, you save Cyrodiil, if not Tamriel, from his evil reign, and you walk into the streets and for something, as said, as simple as punching a peasent, or perhaps picking up an item that doesn't belong to you, the guards will attempt to jail you, fine you or kill you. It's just wrong! The only recognition you get is that upon walking near some people they'll say things such as "Oh my, it's the Champion of Cyrodiil!"

I guess you really didn't save Cyrodiil.

Spoiler:

It was actually Martin that did most of the saving, at the end of the MQ I mean. I guess they think of Martin as the real hero....but don't include Chancellor Ocato. He actually thinks of the player as Martin's equal. But I still want to punch that little wannabe-king in the face !

[whoman69]

There are a ton of things that can be brought in as guild head level missions.

Spoiler:

You could start a new mages guild in Bruma. You could find a new head of the guild in Cheydinhal. You could hire out missions from the other guilds. That's just the mage's guild.

I would also like to see a cleric's guild.

[Josjie]

Or a Ranger's guild. Wood Elves and Dark Elves who practice marksmanship. To join the guild, you need to hunt down X amount of animals. During the guild questline, you'll hunt down a lot of animals and bandits. You take down some huge creatures and bandit leaders, like a oversized Minotaur. In the final guild quest, you and your entire guild assault a huge bandit camp in a dungeon.

[Lord Hirotake]

I agree there,

Spoiler:

I mean, you help Martin kill Mehrunes Dagon, you save Cyrodiil, if not Tamriel, from his evil reign, and you walk into the streets and for something, as said, as simple as punching a peasent, or perhaps picking up an item that doesn't belong to you, the guards will attempt to jail you, fine you or kill you. It's just wrong! The only recognition you get is that upon walking near some people they'll say things such as "Oh my, it's the Champion of Cyrodiil!"

I guess you really didn't save Cyrodiil.

Spoiler:

It was actually Martin that did most of the saving, at the end of the MQ I mean. I guess they think of Martin as the real hero....but don't include Chancellor Ocato. He actually thinks of the player as Martin's equal. But I still want to punch that little wannabe-king in the face !

Well,

Spoiler:

Without the player, Martin would be useless. It was, after all, the player who closed the gate of Kvatch thus saving him, and the player who retrieved the Amulet of Kings from Camoran's realm of paradise. If not for the player, Martin would be dead, and if not dead, he wouldn't be able to do much without the Amulet of Kings. However, I would love to punch Ocato in the face. He's fairly annoying.

Josjie, that's an amazing idea! You should try making a mod like that, if you're into the modding thing.

[Josjie]

I was thinking of that

I'm not an experienced modder but I do know how to create quests, new locations, NPC's, etc.

So who knows we'll see

[King Acunasti]

I was thinking of that

I'm not an experienced modder but I do know how to create quests, new locations, NPC's, etc.

So who knows we'll see

The Dunmer don't seem like the "hunting type". If you do create a Rangers Guild mod, you should make the majority of the guild members Bosmer and Altmer. They seem like the kind of races that would hunt.

[Rhcpftw]

Oh yeah, this is a nice topic.

I hate it when they're like "Ooh wow you saved our world, hail the champion of Cyrodiil"
*Tries to pick something up but touches an apple in the store"
"STOP! YOU'VE VIOLATED THE LAW!"

[Generalno1]

I was thinking of that

I'm not an experienced modder but I do know how to create quests, new locations, NPC's, etc.

So who knows we'll see

The Dunmer don't seem like the "hunting type". If you do create a Rangers Guild mod, you should make the majority of the guild members Bosmer and Altmer. They seem like the kind of races that would hunt.

the altmer aren't hunters either
why can't you join the bandits?would seem like an interesting quest line if you ask me
and i think this was mentioned earlier,a vampires guild.with a patriarch or a matriarch as the head

[King Acunasti]

I was thinking of that

I'm not an experienced modder but I do know how to create quests, new locations, NPC's, etc.

So who knows we'll see

The Dunmer don't seem like the "hunting type". If you do create a Rangers Guild mod, you should make the majority of the guild members Bosmer and Altmer. They seem like the kind of races that would hunt.

the altmer aren't hunters either
why can't you join the bandits?would seem like an interesting quest line if you ask me
and i think this was mentioned earlier,a vampires guild.with a patriarch or a matriarch as the head

Vampire factions are a part of Morrowind. I'm kinda glad Bethesda kept it that way.

[whoman69]

I would like to see more factions in play and choices in regard to which factions you will join, not just a vanilla everyone can join approach. Knights of the Nine is supposed to be this uber paladin type quest yet if you visit a few shrines you can be cleansed of your sins. Doing that quest should not erase your hard earned infamy. There should be different ways to reach endgame.

[Josjie]

I would like to see more factions in play and choices in regard to which factions you will join, not just a vanilla everyone can join approach. Knights of the Nine is supposed to be this uber paladin type quest yet if you visit a few shrines you can be cleansed of your sins. Doing that quest should not erase your hard earned infamy. There should be different ways to reach endgame.

Agreed.

The only requirement to join the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild is having no bounty on your head. That's it. So even a level 1 noob wearing plain clothes and not being able to fight at all, can get himself a place in the MG or FG and is free to take their stuff (all the alchemy apparatus from the MG, etc.).

I wish Oblivion had three default classes: Mage, Thief and Warrior, and that you can only join the MG as a Mage, the FG as a Warrior, the TG as a Thief, the Dark Brotherhood as a Thief and KotN as a Warrior.

And level requirements like in Morrowind would've been great. For example: to even become Arch-Mage in the Mages Guild, you'll need to be level 40. To advance in rank, you'll need to be level 5, level 10, level 15, level 20 etc.

Other requirements could be:

Knights of the Nine
No murders
No infamy
No stolen items
At least 20 fame
Warrior class
Imperial, Nord or Redguard race

[Cloud_Nine]

Other requirements could be:

Knights of the Nine
No murders
No infamy
No stolen items
At least 20 fame
Warrior class
Imperial, Nord or Redguard race

Why would race be a requirement? Are the Knights of the Nine racist all of a sudden?

As for the three main classes, I don't agree with this simply because it limits the game, I like being the arch-mage of the mage's guild, the master of the Fighter's guild, the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, the Gray Fox in the Thieve's Guild, Grand-Champion of the Arena, and the Divine Crusader of the Knights of the Nine, plus other smaller factions that I left out. I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with limiting the player's choices on what guilds they can join based solely on their race or class. The way I see it, I'm a mage who climbed to the topmost tier in the Mage's guild, then moved on to the other factions, completing their tasks more efficiently and the way a mage would.

[Josjie]

Other requirements could be:

Knights of the Nine
No murders
No infamy
No stolen items
At least 20 fame
Warrior class
Imperial, Nord or Redguard race

Why would race be a requirement? Are the Knights of the Nine racist all of a sudden?

As for the three main classes, I don't agree with this simply because it limits the game, I like being the arch-mage of the mage's guild, the master of the Fighter's guild, the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, the Gray Fox in the Thieve's Guild, Grand-Champion of the Arena, and the Divine Crusader of the Knights of the Nine, plus other smaller factions that I left out. I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with limiting the player's choices on what guilds they can join based solely on their race or class. The way I see it, I'm a mage who climbed to the topmost tier in the Mage's guild, then moved on to the other factions, completing their tasks more efficiently and the way a mage would.

Ok race requirements aren't a very good idea.

But what I'm trying to say is: Oblivion should be more like Morrowind.

Take a look at Morrowind's Mages Guild requirements for example:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mage ... uild_Ranks

[whoman69]

Haven't played Morrowind so I'm not sure on the stats. If they're similar to Oblivion then a level one character would be able to start out straight up in the 3rd level of most guilds. I don't see a problem that the player is fast-tracked through the guilds as they are designed to save the day. What I don't like is that the guilds are for everyone, they should be a bit exclusive. If you want to go through all the guilds you need to have a different character. There is a different moral structure for the Mages Guild than say the Dark Brotherhood. The game simply states you can't have a bounty, as if paying the bounty is going to reverse that crime already made. No job around has that sort of forgiveness. Otherwise they wouldn't ask if one has a felony record.

I can see your logical argument there is also a skill set difference. The game is set that for characters to advance in all phases. Eventually a character based to be more magic oriented is going to pick up the skills to be in the fighter's guild. There may also be multi-role type characters light a battlemage.

IMO there should be a roleplaying track to go. If you want to be a anti-hero you go through the dark brotherhood, necromancers, thieves guild, slavers guild. If you want to be more the standard hero you have the mage's guild, healer's guild, fighters guild, searchers guild, ranger's guild. I want a lot more guilds and a choice to be made as to which guilds you can join. I also want to see more bonuses for reaching the top of your guild, like perhaps the Wizards Tower for the Arch-Mage.

[King Acunasti]

Haven't played Morrowind so I'm not sure on the stats. If they're similar to Oblivion then a level one character would be able to start out straight up in the 3rd level of most guilds. I don't see a problem that the player is fast-tracked through the guilds as they are designed to save the day. What I don't like is that the guilds are for everyone, they should be a bit exclusive. If you want to go through all the guilds you need to have a different character. There is a different moral structure for the Mages Guild than say the Dark Brotherhood. The game simply states you can't have a bounty, as if paying the bounty is going to reverse that crime already made. No job around has that sort of forgiveness. Otherwise they wouldn't ask if one has a felony record.

I can see your logical argument there is also a skill set difference. The game is set that for characters to advance in all phases. Eventually a character based to be more magic oriented is going to pick up the skills to be in the fighter's guild. There may also be multi-role type characters light a battlemage.

IMO there should be a roleplaying track to go. If you want to be a anti-hero you go through the dark brotherhood, necromancers, thieves guild, slavers guild. If you want to be more the standard hero you have the mage's guild, healer's guild, fighters guild, searchers guild, ranger's guild. I want a lot more guilds and a choice to be made as to which guilds you can join. I also want to see more bonuses for reaching the top of your guild, like perhaps the Wizards Tower for the Arch-Mage.

I'm glad there aren't many choices to be made in Oblivion. Choices are for Fable, and Fable only.

[x0 RG 0x]

Same thing with might and respect. Most people think they can easily take you, I don't know any examples but It is the same thing in Fallout 3, where I walked in the vault with hellfire armor, alien tech weoponry and 7 companions, some guy says i'm gonna die and pulls out his 10 mm pistol. I was like and I didn't have the chance to kill him because he was kinda torn apart by my followers. same thing in oblivion.
one time I was trying to make a good 1 hit kill spell and I tried on some bandits. It worked, I pwnded, then some guy,

Spoiler:

the one you have to kill for the dark bh. who is a master of destruction and is actually member of it

walks by and he says something like "get lost or i'll turn your bones to ashes" then I prodded him with the spell and he fell dead.
it is just that the people don't respect you and don't know you because they only have triggered scripted dialogues when you complete a guild or the main quest. it just works frustrating

[Josjie]

Same thing with might and respect. Most people think they can easily take you, I don't know any examples but It is the same thing in Fallout 3, where I walked in the vault with hellfire armor, alien tech weoponry and 7 companions, some guy says i'm gonna die and pulls out his 10 mm pistol. I was like and I didn't have the chance to kill him because he was kinda torn apart by my followers. same thing in oblivion.
one time I was trying to make a good 1 hit kill spell and I tried on some bandits. It worked, I pwnded, then some guy,

Spoiler:

the one you have to kill for the dark bh. who is a master of destruction and is actually member of it

walks by and he says something like "get lost or i'll turn your bones to ashes" then I prodded him with the spell and he fell dead.
it is just that the people don't respect you and don't know you because they only have triggered scripted dialogues when you complete a guild or the main quest. it just works frustrating

I once walked in the Arena Bloodworks with my level 25 character. It was a High Elf with all attributes (except for Luck & Personality) at 100 and all skills at 100 (except for Mercantile and Speechcraft).
I had completed all quests (Main Quest, all factions, SI, KotN) except for the Arena. My spellbook contained over a hundred spells that were very powerful, thanks to my 900 base magicka, gained by fully enchanted Madness armor (no cheats or glitches used!).

I became really, really frustrated. Here are some quotes from Owyn:
"I don't know who you are friend, but you've got about ten seconds to tell me what you're doing in my Bloodworks before I lop your arms off." I have more than 100 fame and saved the world! How does he dare to speak to me like that?
"That's Ysabel Andronicus, crabby old woman who sits over there. She's dear to me, so if you wrong her in any way, I'll rip your damn liver out."
"I heard a rumor that you're an idiot. Any truth to that?"
"Your next fight is against a Breton. He has more experience than you so be prepared!" WTF? How could he possible have more experience than me? I'm the headmaster/champion/leader of everything and I've played for over 100 hours!


I was so annoyed that I deleted my save games and didn't touch Oblivion for weeks. I switched to The Orange Box instead.

[whoman69]

I'm glad there aren't many choices to be made in Oblivion. Choices are for Fable, and Fable only.

Fable has few choices. Knights of fable are very vanilla. If you just want to go in and kill things and not have any rpg experience then there are tons of games out there like that.

[GenocideHeart]

"Your next fight is against a Breton. He has more experience than you so be prepared!" WTF? How could he possible have more experience than me? I'm the headmaster/champion/leader of everything and I've played for over 100 hours!

How much time did you spend as an Arena pit fighter again?

...

Yeah. Thought so. That Breton may have had less TITLES than you, but he'd been around in the Arena longer than you. Pretty sure that's what Owyn was referring to.

Besides, Owyn doesn't respect even the Emperor ("I don't care if the Emperor's ghost is floating around the Bloodworks, down here, I'm the boss"), and is a bear of a man who doesn't give a damn about whatever titles you may drag around from outside - if you ain't proven yourself in the Arena, you are pond scum. Simple as that.

It's very similar to the attitude that, for instance, Marines guys have towards people from any other Army section. A Marine doesn't care how many people you shot down as an ace pilot, as far as the Marine corps goes, you're a nublet.

[Josjie]

"Your next fight is against a Breton. He has more experience than you so be prepared!" WTF? How could he possible have more experience than me? I'm the headmaster/champion/leader of everything and I've played for over 100 hours!

How much time did you spend as an Arena pit fighter again?

...

Yeah. Thought so. That Breton may have had less TITLES than you, but he'd been around in the Arena longer than you. Pretty sure that's what Owyn was referring to.

Besides, Owyn doesn't respect even the Emperor ("I don't care if the Emperor's ghost is floating around the Bloodworks, down here, I'm the boss"), and is a bear of a man who doesn't give a damn about whatever titles you may drag around from outside - if you ain't proven yourself in the Arena, you are pond scum. Simple as that.

It's very similar to the attitude that, for instance, Marines guys have towards people from any other Army section. A Marine doesn't care how many people you shot down as an ace pilot, as far as the Marine corps goes, you're a nublet.

Yeah but you still expect a bit of respect. Owyn only has a set of iron armor and I can easily kill him in one hit. If I hadn't been there he would be dead and the Imperial City overrun. I saved the world and I have a whole army at my command.

And how tough basically is fighting in the Arena? It's a simple 1-vs-1 fight. I've killed hundreds of people and animals and I've fought in an Arena before: during "Through a Nightmare, Darkly" and "Boethia".

[GenocideHeart]

Yes, you fought in an Arena in a dream world (which supplies you with an insanely powerful magical staff that can utterly stomp those dreamworld minotaurs, no less) and in a Daedric plane with no humans to see your exploits.

No witnesses = no respect.

Moreover, Owyn is Always Essential, so it's not like he'd have been in any danger even if you HADN'T been there. And on top of that Owyn has spent decades in the Arena and used to be an Arena Grand Champion himself (just look at his character page and notice his Arena rank). You DO know that most Grand Champions don't get to retire, right? The fact Owyn was a Grand Champion AND got to retire from old age means he was that damn good. You're the one who's not respecting him now...

You, on the other hand, have been doing the hero thing for, at best, a few months of game time. How the hell do you expect to earn respect from someone who's been doing the 'put your life on the line' shtick for years? When someone has the experience Owyn has under his belt, impressing them requires a hell of a lot more than impressing some pencil-necked townie.

Remember where you were. The Bloodworks are called that for a reason, and Owyn has seen far too many people with a reputation for being tough outside the arena end up dead and disemboweled on the floor to be impressed by anything other than seeing you walk the walk with his own two eyes.

Someone in Oblivion once said a very wise thing: "Talk is cheap."

[Josjie]

Ok I can see your point and you've convinced me.
But we're still talking about a game here and it's not just Owyn, the Mages Guild shows you no respect as well. Having fun is the most important aspect of a game IMO and if people treat you like crap even though you've saved their lives I'm not having fun.