RP Character Discussion

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Baloth-Kul
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Baloth-Kul »

Ah, so he's a sociopath :D Or that's my take, anyway. As...calm and cold as one might be, killing is not something regularly functioning people can do without remorse or hesitation. Hardened soldiers, people you would never expect to be vulnerable, suffer from PTSD. The lack of emotions, inability to form relationships, and willingness and readiness to kill, along with a lack of remorse, are all signs of sociopathy.

...Which is fun, within the context of a RP! Maybe Zudeel and the party will come into conflict, at some point.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by KingFeraligatr »

I didn't really intend for him to be a sociopath, but on further reflection, Zudeel might be one (or a borderline case). The people I know he ever really cared for are his parents and his battlemage mentor (probably more. Don't know), and they're all dead. Everyone else seemed to be friends or allies at most. Still, he does not enjoy torturing, abusing, or killing people for lulz really (except slavers). Or manipulating them. And he does seem to have faint morals. Still, I'm unsure whether to label him as a sociopath.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

Baloth-Kul wrote:As...calm and cold as one might be, killing is not something regularly functioning people can do without remorse or hesitation.
Nammu begs to differ.. then again.. Nammu can't be called normal either :wat: Rook knows what I'm talking about
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I could always try and word out Nammu's own stance on morals.. but that may touch up on some spoilers.. Plus, I don't think most folk would like being listed from least to most expendable. As one could say "The ends always justify the means" He's a saint :wink: just don't ask how

Speakin of, and mildly unrelated... I always wondered, in the RP as a whole, how informative it would be to have some manner of revealing someone's inner/true self(much like Green-Saps Orrey).. whether that be as a visual representation, or a color hue for their morality(i.e good/evil/ect) or just how dangerous/a threat an individual poses. I mean, any of those would certainly make Darkscale seem more welcoming :P
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

I wouldn't go so far as to call Zudeel a sociopath. That word is thrown about quite a lot but it's quite a serious thing to call somebody / to be categorized as.

TVTropes defines a sociopath (and I adore their definition) as the following (beware; huge);
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TVTropes wrote:The Sociopath displays these following qualities:

Lack of Empathy and Imperviousness to Shame: Utterly ruthless doesn't begin to describe them: except for when trying to appear normal, they will disregard any social norms and semblance of morality in pursuit of their own selfish desires. The Sociopath will do whatever it takes: lie, cheat, steal, extort, manipulate, or use outright violence without the slightest hesitation, disgust or remorse, and for as little as Pleasure or The Evulz. Murder and violence have no more emotional weight than eating Chinese takeout or some other mundane activity, and they have no concern for the direct or collateral damage they do to other people, being unable to understand why anyone should. Techniques for learning moral behaviour, such as reason, therapy, rehabilitation and behavioral reward/punishment, will not work on them or tend to only make their behavior even worse by making it easier for them to fake it.

Consummate Liar and Manipulator: In the event they are ever targets of suspicion in crime dramas and thrillers, sociopaths are able to fool any Living Lie Detectors in the cast, pass polygraphs effortlessly, and fool even you, the audience, into believing they are genuinely kind and caring people who are victims of a "big misunderstanding" (assuming they are not so smugly confident of their own invincibility that they feel no need to hide their unsavory personality). Moreover, despite their lack of empathy, sociopaths are capable of using their knowledge of others' desires, emotions and insecurities to manipulate them for their own personal gain. Because of this, many of them are Faux Affably Evil. This is related to their lack of empathy and shame - they don't feel the slightest discomfort about lying or exploiting others so they do so with the same ease in which normal people perform mundane activities.

Need for Stimulation: The Sociopath's raison d'etre (i.e.: an overriding goal which serves as one's "reason for existence"). Due to their inability to empathize or even care for those around them, sociopaths largely view their existence as boring and/or meaningless and therefore feel compelled to engage in "thrill-seeking" activities to alleviate their restlessness. How this manifests depends largely on the sociopath's personality. It can be as relatively benign as binging on video games, compulsively gambling, or leading highly promiscuous lifestyles. Far more dangerous examples are prone to satiate their lust for thrills by partaking in criminal enterprises, becoming serial rapists and/or killers, or (with regards to unusually high-functioning cases) accumulating vast wealth and/or influence for the sole purpose of dominating as many people as they can for their own amusement. By the same token, sociopaths have a very low tolerance for inconvenience or irritation which they often display through a pronounced lack of impulse control. Because of that many of them are Ax-Crazy and/or have a Hair-Trigger Temper.

A Grandiose Sense of Self-Worth: If there's a skill that exists, you can bet they believe they can master it in no time at all. From their perspective, they are the most handsome, intelligent and powerful individual that is and ever will be. Unlike the Narcissist whose self-esteem is vulnerable to others' perceptions, a sociopath's grandiosity about their self-worth remains constant regardless of how people view him/her. Even when their actions result in crushing failure, a sociopath feels no need to conform their conduct with others' views or standards. Conversely, in pursuit of their insatiable desire for stimulation, they will continue to push the envelope as much as they can do so without suffering the consequences (a self-destructive lifestyle which endangers not only themselves but everyone around them). Likewise, sociopaths are incapable of acknowledging personal responsibility for ANY of the failures or disappointments they encounter (i.e: events which they automatically attribute to those out to "keep them down" or unfortunate twists of fate entirely beyond their control).

Shallow Affect: Their defining trait. A Sociopath is literally incapable of experiencing a deep emotional attachment towards others but - being a Consummate Liar - learns early in life how to fake them. They never truly understand the feelings of others on anything more than an intellectual level, and may even believe that everybody else is faking it too. As many Real Life criminal psychologists put it: "They know the words but not the music." This shallow emotional life means that the Sociopath is unable to form sincere long-term relationships with anything or anyone, but will feign feelings of love and affection if they feel it serves their purposes. Most of the true feelings a sociopath harbors towards others, positive or negative, are rooted in an insatiable desire to dominate or control them. While narcissists would prefer to be loved or at least respected by those around them, sociopaths don't care whether others view them positively as long as they don't stand in the way of their own self-centered gratification. In the rare event that a Sociopath actually does form an "attachment" to another person, it normally rises no further than that between an owner and a possession and/or a valuable resource for advancing their goals. Thus, once such "friends" cease to be a source of entertainment or otherwise outlive their usefulness, they abandon or kill them without ANY hesitation or regret unless (in the case of more high-functioning examples) they feel doing so would potentially jeopardize their own self-interest.

Many of these traits are shared with other disorders, but it's the combination of them all that creates the Sociopath. And, like many other disorders, sociopathy falls on a spectrum. Some sociopaths are just unusually self-absorbed. On the other end of the scale are the ruthless, remorseless monsters. Sociopaths also have varying personalities, levels of intelligence, and interests, which influences how their disorder manifests in everyday life.

The high-functioning Sociopath will usually have better-than-average impulse control for someone with their condition, and may actually appear perfectly normal. They know murder is bad because they're told it's bad — and know murderers who are caught will get in trouble — but the action has no more emotional weight to them than brushing their teeth. They emulate the moral behaviour of society because a failure to do so has negative consequences, and not because Good Feels Good. What You Are in the Dark exposes them for who they are, and they do not consider something wrong if they do not get caught. If killing advances their goals and they can get away with it, they will often do so. And they will often seek positions of respectability within their communities in order to maintain the façade of being just like everybody else.

Alternatively, they may simply possess goals that do not require murder or other criminal activities to achieve; this does not mean they won't strive to achieve those goals at the expense of the happiness of other people. And even if their goals would be more easily achieved with murder, they might still refrain - but that's because they fear getting caught, not the feelings of others. They might go their whole lives appearing almost normal... but there will always be something a little 'off' about them; something cold and distant and fake. And they won't even care. This type can make a terrifying Knight Templar, liable to belive that Utopia Justifies the Means- some sociopathic serial killers claim they are simply a Necessary Evil removing undesirable elements from society or making a political statement. They may understand intellectually that their actions are undesirable in society at large, but feel that they should be rewarded, not punished, for acting to solve a perceived problem.

The low-functioning version is defined mostly by their impulse control being particularly shoddy, or having a personality type that predisposes them to violent behavior. For them, maintaining the façade of "fitting in" is simply impossible, as their violent outbursts make them highly visible. But even a low-functioning Sociopath can be glib and charming, allowing them to accrue loyal followers who perceive their behavior as revolutionary and secretly having a higher purpose. The sociopath will see these followers as useful pawns at best, however, and will not return any of their loyalty in kind. Though they may pretend to when it suits them.
I wouldn't call Zudeel a sociopath. He's true neutral and emotionally distant, maybe even a sort of antihero, but he's certainly not sociopathic IMO.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Kerr »

Viktor Cheng (the character I'm playing in KT) is actually a sociopath, diagnosed as well. He fits all the criteria. That's not why he's awful, like not everyone who could be labeled a sociopath is a terrible person despite what media might lead you to believe, even the above thing from TV Tropes says as a much.

But Viktor is completely amoral.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Alarra »

Unionhack wrote:TA2: So now that Act 2 is over, I feel it right to open up discussion on the NPCs y'all have encountered just so I can get feedback and ideas for future NPCs. Thoughts? Who was your favorite? Least favorite? Stuff like that.
Just noticed this now. I've pretty much liked all of the NPCs you've made. I don't think I've disliked any at all (well, aside from Jarl Valdimar who is meant to be disliked :P). Favorite... hmm, hard to say. Maybe Jarl Ragnir, or else I'm liking Grelok's father so far. I like how each of them has a real distinct personality, so even if they're a minor character you still get a bit of an idea of who they are as a person.



Anyway, I'd definitely say that Zudeel is not a sociopath: he doesn't like slavery, he makes friends and genuinely cares for them, and he doesn't fit a lot of the other stuff (I also go by TV Tropes' description). I'd say Arellius is definitely the best example of a sociopath in the RP so far: he fits pretty much every detail listed there.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

Quick question, since we are on the scene. What official ranks do Grelok and Roran hold in the Guild?

I get it that Roran is their muscle, and Grelok was trusted enough to deal with business negotiations with the pirates..
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

I haven't decided on rank titles, structure and stuff like that so it's vague for now on the official levels. When I get that worked out I'll ask Baloth and VW what they want Grelok and Roran to be.

Grelok is an "Agent" and Roran is an "Enforcer", basically. That's what I'd call them, anyhow.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by The SheoDovah »

I would say that Darkscale is probably the PC that is very close to being a sociopath but that would be pushing it. He merely doesn't give a damn about the morals of killing a man, or woman. He'll kill the emperor if he recieved the correct amount of coin. Hell, he'll kill the franchise if he could then proceed to kill every other franchise if the coin was correct. :P

I am really enjoying writing him as it forces me to think outside the box and so far, it's working. Sure, he may be a Jaqen H'hgar inspired character and sure, some may say he is a rip off but he is interesting and well, he should get along with those who aren't fools.

Naturally, he won't get along with the nobles who believe in charging against the darkness.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

So Grelok is now a Shadowfoot.. which effectively means he was formely the skyrim equivalent to a cat burglar. Does this means he's now one of their elite, or is his black leather proof he was already in their inner circle.. like the guild captains, executive members, n Nightingales

Wait... that means he's official a higher rank than the Stranger. Bravo, bravo
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

The ranks for the "agent" tree of the TA2 Thieves guild are as follows;

>Pickpocket
>Footpad
>Burglar
>Prowler
>Cat Burglar
>Shadowfoot
>Captain
>Doyen
>Underboss(es)
>Guild Master

Grelok is not quite leadership; he's now just at the top of the line of the Agents of the Guild, trusted with big operations and heists and stuff.

Seemed fitting, and Roran will be of similar rank if VW so wishes.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

Still a higher rank than ole Stranger :P technically, that means Grelok outrans the Gray Fox

Still, both are scrubs to miss uber mage. Long live the uber!
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

Don't worry, I didn't have her survive for no reason.

Her name is Vayniah bt-dubs.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

C&G: So it's going to take me a while to get a good feel for Rin's choice of dialogue, namely the speech pattern.

Its been so long, and I've done better since(looks at Nora), but I do very much know the general word choice >_> namely around the lines of british slang, manners, and even stereotypical habits of the time. Unfortunately, all of those I have far more limited experience with than some users here

At least on the bright side, Mausier wont have any actual dialogue, so that just gives me more focus to Rin and her comedic rants
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Aarah »

C&G: I can imagine a young Nora being very similar to Rin. She's no messin', fiesty and cheeky.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

Nah, Rin is just all over the place, no restraints and no cares. :wink: Nora was just some tomboy who dreamed of heroic deeds.. Rin just dreams of more sweets... Both are indeed, in youth and age, no messin', fiesty, and cheeky as can be

They are similar now that I look at it, n hell.. from this point on there will be doubless comparisons.. Oh by the nine.. could you imagine if they be sisters O.o
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

Rook wrote:C&G: <3

While I'm posting Dungeon Master's Cut editions of my posts, this was the top contender for the Masked Man's theme, but I thought it might be a bit jarring.
DID SOMEONE SAY CHARACTER THEMES CAUSE HOO BOY LEMME TELL YA WHAT I SURE DO DOES LOVES THEMS THERE CHARACTER THEME DISCUSSIONS HOO HEE YUP

Here's Alistair's.
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I chose Black for several reasons.

- I'm just SUPER into Homestuck once again after it all ended, I'll be honest,
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- I can just picture Wolf in the process of a high-stakes heist with this going off in the background. It's great.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

I ought to keep an ear out for any themes for Rin. At least Mausier should be easy, nice n military like
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Unionhack »

I gotcha. One Mausier theme, coming right up.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

I mean, if it wasn't terribly out of place, the real world song Katyusha would totally be his jam. Idk, just the bitter cold and Russian militray songs seem to just pair up. Tho frankly, I'm not all too in a fret to find him a theme. He's a former soldier, its not hard to find a fitting theme for that sort

Rin on the otherhand.. random, cheerful, fun. Also, found this for anybody interested. Fits the era
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Kerr »

Hidden:
I was thinking maybe this as a theme for Monad, I don't know, kind of having a hard time finding one I think fits. But it does have kind of a wilderness magic, trickster worshiper feel.

A character I had a much easier time finding a theme for is Viktor from KT:
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by The SheoDovah »

I can't think of a theme for Dick regarding KT.

Or for Elisa in D&D.

Damn my crap data cap. Could spend hours listening to songs to find themes for them.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by Aarah »

C&G: I know it's still early days, but I'm really liking all the characters in cog n gear. There's a good mix. Alistair and Cornelia are a good bandit team. Rin has a gob on her, but she is vulnerable and sweet, and even though Mausier is silent, he has 'them feels'.
Holman has been quiet so far, but I think his sleuthing abilities, calmness, and keen eye are going to be valuable later.
Morgan seems sneaky and likes to pry to get info.
Monad and Victoria have kept themselves more secretive thus far, but I reckon Monad will be an interesting one, with his Trickster beliefs, and Victoria may very well get herself in trouble with her magic.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by The SheoDovah »

C&G: Or do a Gandalf if Rook is cruel enough to throw in a random Balrog.
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Re: RP Character Discussion

Post by BetaB17 »

Mausier.. he as 'them feels'
Lol :P
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