In Elder Scrolls games there are attributes and skills and races that define your character. And if you are a true roleplayer, how your character behaves.
We also have a strong fictional role-playing community here in UESP.
But we don't have an IRL role-playing game. We kid around by "Advancing to the next level" when we grow one year older. But it is like awarding people a +1; it inherently serves no function. My idea seeks to fix that. Here's what I mean.
Right now the User's Control Panel lets members of the forum toss in a few items, such as contact information, occupation, interests, etc. And while this is good and fine, what if we rewrote the UI to be more "in character"; in a roleplay-like fashion. Instead of Occupation, you would have Class. Instead of Interests it would have Skills. And so on. They would be a Race field; American, African-American, Asian, Russian, etc. And just like ES games, each race would have Attribute bonuses. And of course their would have to be a Back-Story field, where we would tell a bit about our self, such as true RPers do whenever they make a new character.
And like ES games, there would be presets to each field, Race, Attributes, Skills, etc. But then there would have to be a Custom field as well. This would be most useful in the Skills field, but doesn't have to be restricted to it. Likewise there would be a Birthsigns field, one for each constellation of the Zodiac. We'll have to either make up, or consult astrological sources to find out the appropriate "effects" each sign is supposed to have on our character.
And naturally, there will have to be an image for each Skill, as seen in Oblivion. In fact, I for one would prefer to mimick the artistry of Oblivion in this regard. There are already Birthsigns artwork, but we could put our own twist on it if we wanted. We could take after Morrowind's Class images too, and compile each Class image based on the major tools used in the skills that define that Class.
I post this idea for two reason:
1)For snowballing. What do you guys think of it / do you have any additional input.
and
2)Assuming it is a Go, I need help compiling the lists of Attributes, Races, and Skill. Understandably these lists will be somewhat long, but that shouldn't be an issue.
In short this idea is intended to make the User Control Panel more "in character" to the Elder Scrolls genre, to which this forum is about. Additionally, it would make visiting member's pages a worthwhile endeavor.
Take note that while this is intended as a mimicry of fiction role-playing games, the fields of input (race, skill, etc) must remain accurate to real life. So no, you cannot put your occupation down as Witch Hunter. Mostly because that won't be a preset (though I suppose you could make it a Custom class is you really wanted). And also because that is a really bigoted thing to do. Witches are not evil, just misunderstood.
The poll is intended as a petition of sorts. I do not know what sort of software or coding requirements are to be demanded should this idea receive a Go from the users of UESP. If a majority of users vote for 'Yes', then we can take this data, along with our well-fleshed-out new UI to Daveh / whomever is to rewrite the UCP in the hopes of seeing it brought to life.
So... ElderStats, but real life?
No thanks. ElderStats is already annoying as it is.
Also the race thing is kind of innately discriminatory, if this does someday happen, at least consider focusing on ethnic groups and cultures rather than race.
Omg, people get offended to damn easily about races. Grow up.
Its ridiculous.
I'm done.
Anyhoo...I like it if it can be done right and it doesn't get messed up.
Hidden:
Wow, look at me, I'm so offended.
In fact, I'm so offended right now, I think I might just sue you, and sue the entire board, because this site is just so offensive.
I demand you show absolute equal rights to all races of people or I will have to get my Tumblr sheeple in here and defend the good rights of all races, not just your so pure and perfect cis white Aryan pyramid scheme on this board, you sick, sick people.
/s
Dude, I get that nobody around here is outwardly racist, most people in the western world aren't. I simply mention not going so far as to classify by IRL race, because there are plenty of people out there who believe we still live in a 100% prejudiced world that is vastly worse than any other century that predates it, and I don't think we want the admins of the board to get in any sort of trouble for something taken entirely out of context... Much less a suggestion that was put in place by the users. I'm just recommending that, if somehow any admin was dedicated enough to make this happen, that it be safeguarded so that nobody looking in from the outside flips their [&@%!]. If people play it up and it escalates enough, just the mere suggestion of discrimination can get a website in serious trouble, especially a website that receives heavy guest traffic. You wouldn't want that, I wouldn't want that, and the mods and admins especially wouldn't want that.
I'm just saying that I'm tired of hearing about race and people getting offended by it. Everyone is equal and people shouldn't be worried about race and being offended and grow the hell up. I'm just sick and tired of hearing about it. Quit being babies. We are all better than this.
Ok I'm done with this. Don't wanna get banned by the wizards of this forum. I'm going back on topic.
Snake wrote:I like the idea but which admin is gonna be willing to change it, providing this is a go?
Venger wrote:At this point finding an Admin to make the changes is ahead of the curve. First we need to see if the idea gains enough support. This is to be determined via the poll. Once that is accomplished we will then work together as a forum to layout and design the new User Control Panel, with documentation and drawings to support. When we are confident of our design and layout, we will then petition those able to make our changes come to fruition, whether they be Daveh, the site owner, and / or those with the power to give this project the green light. Once all those steps are met, then we shall divvy out jobs for those willing to participate in this project to write the required code and satisfy all of the "technical aspects".
Any of us with the admin powers (me, MM, and AKB) could make the changes. I don't think adding points based on profile entries, or having images on profiles like that, is possible to do. ES-ifying the field names and making custom fields definitely does have potential, though. Adding custom profile fields is easiest, while changing the name of a default field (e.g. interests, occupation) is a little more complicated since it involves editing files, but it's possible. We'd probably run any changes past Dave before doing it.
I think a good way to do this is to come up with ideas and start to form an idea of the specifics of what you want: possibly a few different options. Once that's been decided and run by the mod team, we could make a poll to see if anyone is interested, and if so, which of the options they like.
As far as race goes, I think we've pretty much decided no on that already, for several reasons. Sometimes people don't like being labeled with that or aren't sure what they'd fit into (especially if mixed race), and labels can vary by region (for example, "African American" is the politically correct term in America, but not elsewhere), and, as already noted in this thread, it can be a sensitive topic.
I'm pretty much against the entire idea, but if people think that would be fun, don't let me stop you. As long as only arbitrary game flavor-text stuff gets in.
VirtualWeasel wrote:Dude, I get that nobody around here is outwardly racist, most people in the western world aren't.
You wish.
Boss makes a dollar
I make a dime
That's why I'm forum posting
On company time
(A lot of this post is being generated "on the fly". Pardon the some what sporadic nature and the way I answer my own questions. Feel privileged; you are reading me think!
Personally I was hoping for a more Oblivion-oriented UI. I think it would fit better with the default UESP skin. Plus, I am partial to the artistic style of the Skills images from Oblivion as well. Note that I do want NEW images for the skills we'd use, but mimic Oblivion's style. While we can recycle ES skills, and maybe even skill images, new ones would allow for a more fitting IRL experience. Because in all honesty having a "Mercantile" skill is a bit vague and not really an occupation these days, if it ever was a proper occupation at all.
I agree with Alarra and MM on the race thing. I wasn't to know that it would have such an affect as it did. Not implementing it seems to be a good idea, considering the lack of agreeably consistent racial character traits. Thanks mods for heading this problem off at the pass!
Unlike a video game, where Attributes are a "rule" that define mathematical calculations used to affect in-game actions/interaction/reactions, real life is a bit more tricky. What this mean for our set up is that Attributes will not be used the same way they are in ES games.
*I break from my above paragraph as this thought occurs to me: should we limit the number of attributes to 2 and Skills to 7 (or perhaps 10 like Morrowind)? This would allow user to narrow the input to give a brief, and condensed descriptive of themselves. Even in an ES game, just as is true with real life, every body is a little bit of every skill and attribute. Limiting the input fields to 2 Attr. and 7/10 Skills would be more appropriate to the purpose of this idea; as a brief descriptive of a person, not his/her life story. On a personal note, I 'd prefer not to give my life story on my Profile Page. Brevity is my friend here.
Note that attributes are character traits of yourself. They are not a "performable" action. One may BE curious, but yo do not DO curiosity. Curiosity is not a verb.
So any way. For example my two attributes might be Curiosity and Intelligence. My Class might be "Woodsman" (Im shooting from the hip for names here, so bare with me). The skills associated with that class, as Woodsman is a preset class, not a custom one, would include Archery Marksman, Stalking, Firemaking, Skinning, Tanning, Herblore, and Culinary. I wonder if we ought to break down certain skills, like Cooking into Trees, like World of Warcraft does with Smithing. (I dont play, but I read the original game manual, so correct me if I go astray here.) Cooking could branch of into gourmet and "campfire" cooking, just like WoW's smithing skill branched into Weapon Smith or Armor smith at a certain level.
**As I proof read, this thought occurs and I inject it into the confusing mass of thoughts:
As per Archery, this has me thinking of renaming to Marksman, like Morrowind and Oblivion have. However, I wonder at the wisdom of doing this as it omits, through generalization, the fields of archery and... the use of fire arms. I am proud of Archery, and hiding in the generalization of Marksman feels a bit wrong for some reason. But, I suppose other might feel the same about the Culinary skill. So as said above, we'll make it Marksman. Users can specify upon request on the forums.
*I again break my above paragraph as an idea comes to me. There shouldn't be skill levels. That is too subjective a matter. it would be like measuring pain. Ordinarily we judge ourselves much harder than others do, so providing a realistic and accurate real-world skill level would be very hard. True, some users have met other users of UESP, but surely they didn't hang around long enough to place a skill level. Also, a bias would exist. Not wanting to hurt feelings, they would give them a high skill level out of kindness. Then there is your mother. And Azura knows that your mother is better at cooking any ways, to use a specific skill here, so how dare you assume a level 100 Culinary Skill. And no, your mother isn't running around with a special enchanted apron that boosts her Culinary skill above 100, and yes, the skill cap would have to be 100, if there was a skill cap at all. While an amusing train of thought, enchantments don't exist in real life (or at least in a consistency agreeable format).
So long answer short: no skill levels. HOWEVER! There are character levels, which is your age. This allows the birth date feature to remain in place so that users can know the chosen age of their fellow UESP'rs.
Any way: how would we moderate variations in a skill, such as Culinary? Or should it be left intentionally vague? After all, as I said above, this is a brief descriptive of the user, not his life story. Should they want to get more in-depth, others may specifically inquire about a user's mentioned skills, or else the user may give further detail on their Culinary skill at their own accord in the appropriate thread(s).
I think we should head up certain renowned members to mete out the requirements of this idea. Jak, if I recall correctly, and assuming he is still around, was quite handy with a photo editing software. He used to offer free sig and avvy services. Perhaps, Jakarius, you wouldn't mind adding your own creativity to the pot here for things like Skill and Attribute images? We'll need Class images too. Heck, a whole team of artists, that being the collectively skilled and talented members of UESP with knowledge of drawing (digital or "archaic") would be positively groovy! Ya'll could have your own thread where you exchange technical ideas. This would allow "outsiders", such as myself, who is not an artist (in the drawing sense) to follow your progress, and / or inject our ideas into the mix.
Speaking of services, I had another idea! (Yay! This tl;dr post gets tl;dr-er!) The current Profile Page has Websites tag. What if instead we had a Services tag that gave a link to the user's personal website. Say if you run an Etsy account, for instance, a thumbnail image, like seen in oblivion, could be used to direct others to your page. The thumbnail logo would presumably be the same image used for whatever we replace as the Mercantile skill.
On a similar topic of Profile Page fields, I am not sure how we would integrate such things as points of contact, such as email addresses and socials links and other things like the Status feature and ES games played. Perhaps we could call them Quests instead, and have a pull-down tab with each ES game, for both console and PC.
I won't include my ideas on possible Attributes and Skills right now. I'll think about it as I drive to work and similar physical "down times" were mental creativity is more active.
There should be a blank field in the new Profile that allows users to write a short "back story" on their self. I don't know if a character limit should be impose on this field, but it might be a good idea to keep in tune with the requirement of brevity.
We need to decide what UI from what ES game we want to follow, or take from. Because some of use have not played all ES games, please provide images, either as a screenshot, or even hand drawn sketch, or even detailed written descriptive if all else fails, of your ideas.
At the mod team; while I understand the logic of merging my original thread with this thread, I wonder if it would be prudent to carry on in-depth discussions (such as what skills we should have, image examples, etc) in this thread. While it is still discussing a forum change, being of a specific long-term objective would it not be better to have its own thread, rather than occupying this general intent thread? Or would y'all rather wait until this idea has more directed steam under it?
The signature is the common man's attempt at a wise one-liner.
I'm not sure we were thinking that a complete UI change would happen. The core of the idea, of making the profile page line up a little more with TES games by renaming fields and adding a few new fields, is what we were asking ideas for.
This isn't really related to Venger's idea, but how about adding fields for information regarding a user's account on Elder Scrolls: Online. I'm thinking of asking forum members for the sever they're playing on and their nickname. Perhaps this could even be displayed underneath the avatar on the users' posts. Might make it easier for forum members to recognize each other in-game.
I actually kinda like Vengar's ideas of having each profile have X amount of major skills to define their "real life character". For example, I'm an avid runner so one of mine would be Athletics. Skills levels sound tricky, I'm against it. Two attributes sounds rather fair. I think all these changes could make for a pretty nifty cosmetic change on the forums!
Dark Heart wrote:This isn't really related to Venger's idea, but how about adding fields for information regarding a user's account on Elder Scrolls: Online. I'm thinking of asking forum members for the sever they're playing on and their nickname. Perhaps this could even be displayed underneath the avatar on the users' posts. Might make it easier for forum members to recognize each other in-game.
Just to point out something that seems rather simplistic, has anybody thought to use the 'Other Profiles' field to add their ESO profile?
ESO: WombatWeasal73 for example
Look to how I use my field, it's short, simple, and most of all public. It really is an under-used feature, truly. Other info such as server could still be set somewhere publicly if your creative, or go the classic route and ask. Honestly I see no reason why a thread shouldn't be dedicated to just this, treated much like we do the threads for Steam, 360, or PS3
"I Seek Truth, Not For Power, But For Understanding"
With the theme of last month's in mind, and with the common theme of artistry throughout past comps. I propose that this month's competition be about designing a CD case jacket for the bard song's of ESO and Skyrim. What might the art work on the CD case be if Bethesda (or whoever makes ES games these days) released them as a separate soundtrack?
Yes? No? Shut up and gtfo our forums? Whatcha thunk?
The signature is the common man's attempt at a wise one-liner.
With the theme of last month's in mind, and with the common theme of artistry throughout past comps. I propose that this month's competition be about designing a CD case jacket for the bard song's of ESO and Skyrim. What might the art work on the CD case be if Bethesda (or whoever makes ES games these days) released them as a separate soundtrack?
Yes? No? Shut up and gtfo our forums? Whatcha thunk?
Personally, I think that idea sounds fun and hilarious! It sounds like it would be one of the more time consuming activities though, so not sure if it would get many participants.
Quick question; are banned members now being given the title of 'BANNED User' and being stripped of their coins and previous title? A quick glance o'er Dove's profile is what piqued my curiosity.
Ripcage wrote:Quick question; are banned members now being given the title of 'BANNED User' and being stripped of their coins and previous title? A quick glance o'er Dove's profile is what piqued my curiosity.
Nope, that was just a joke from Chat; it's just a changed title (like the COTM Winner one) and they're not actually banned.
Ripcage wrote:Quick question; are banned members now being given the title of 'BANNED User' and being stripped of their coins and previous title? A quick glance o'er Dove's profile is what piqued my curiosity.
Nope, that was just a joke from Chat; it's just a changed title (like the COTM Winner one) and they're not actually banned.
Okie doke. I definitely got the feeling I was missing some sort of in-joke there, but I wanted to make sure.
Ripcage wrote:Quick question; are banned members now being given the title of 'BANNED User' and being stripped of their coins and previous title? A quick glance o'er Dove's profile is what piqued my curiosity.
Nope, that was just a joke from Chat; it's just a changed title (like the COTM Winner one) and they're not actually banned.
Okie doke. I definitely got the feeling I was missing some sort of in-joke there, but I wanted to make sure.
I've got a question. When is the next time we're going to have a CotM? I mean, having the purple coins for the last couple of months has been nice, but I'd like to have to fight for them again... I understand if all of the mods are busy though, life happens to all of us, I'm just curious.
Hat wrote:Do you people understand how underrated ZeRoc is? Do you see this post above me?
Avron wrote:Guys, do you realize just how glorious all of ZeRoc's puns are?
I work at Ancestry, so does that make me an ancestor ghost?
Is there any way to get to the bottom of the page quickly when using the mobile version of the forum? (Like a 'go to bottom' button) At the moment I'm scrolling all the way down which is quite laborious.
