1st of Morning Star - vs - 1st of Hearthfire

[Satribe]

Well...I cracked it. I had a theory that it wasn't random, I just needed to figure out what triggers the different starting months for the game. Here's the answer:

During a fresh load of the game, the characters you create will start 1st of Hearthfire 12:00 Noon. If you choose "Drop to Dos" and restart the game, this is a fresh start. If you create a new character before loading any other saves, your new character will start 1st of Hearthfire 12:00 Noon

If you have already loaded a character and choose "New Game", the character you create will start 1st Morning Star 12:00 Midnight.

This is true for ver 1.06 and 1.07. (Although the Anthology version is technically 1.06 it was also tested and verified.)

This is NOT true for ver 1.03. In this version all new characters, created fresh, or created using the "New Game" option will always start 1st Hearthfire 12:00 Noon. (Information I've read so far, seems to indicate that 1.03 is the earliest retail release of the game, but I'm not certain.)

In the DEMO version (pre Feb 1994) you cannot create characters, however the date is also 1st of Hearthfire 12:00 Noon.

So having a start date of 1st Morning Star, appears to be a bug that was introduced somewhere between versions 1.04-1.06.

If anyone knows where I can get a copy of the game or patch for 1.04 and 1.05, I should be able to pinpoint when this change occurred.
(EDIT: My guess is 1.05. From the patch notes; "New characters created from within the game will work". Version 1.03 seems to work fine, so I bet something broke in 1.04 and the fix in 1.05 added the Morning Star bug.)

EDIT: I was able to obtain patches for 1.01, 1.04, and 1.05. From all accounts I can find, there is no 1.02 patch and 1.03 is the primary retail version. This is why you can't find .02 and .03. This makes sense, but need someone to check who actually owns an original retail copy.

Ver 1.01 patch. It isn't a true test, but I tried to use it to upgrade the DEMO and downgrade Ver 1.03. The DEMO wouldn't load. The downgraded ver 1.03 operated the same with the exception of not giving the version number on exit. "Operated the same": meaning that saving from a fresh start or after creating a new character from "New Game" both start the game on 1st Hearthfire.

Ver 1.04 patch. Patch notes from ver 1.05 state; "New characters created from within the game will work". Using Patch 1.04 on the 1.03 game, I could still create characters in both manners. I wasn't able to determine what needed to be fixed for version 1.05. The fix isn't specific so it could be something in the stats creation or something you discover later. My focus was on the start dates. Version 1.04 creates characters in both manners starting on 1st Hearthfire.

Ver 1.05 patch. I applied this patch directly to the Ver 1.03 game. It operates the same as 1.06 and 1.07. Whatever 1.05 fixed in the character creation from within the game for version 1.04, it added the "Morning Star" bug for all future versions.

::Now I want to know more about this from the 1.04 patch: "Multiple 'Fortify' on a single spell now fortify all stats that are in the spell. Therefore a spell that fortifies STR, INT, and WIL will now fortify all those stats rather than changing your gender, for example. It will NOT fix your gender if you're already changed. (sorry)"

[SeaGtGruff]

That is a very interesting find, and very dedicated detective work!

I suppose the "bug" of having a new character start on the 1st of Morning Star at 12:00 midnight is caused by the in-game date and time being set to 0 when creating a new character, since that is the very beginning of the year in which the game starts.

I wonder if this might also explain something else I'd noticed a while back?

A year or more ago, I was playing with a different character and working on making maps of the various cities, including maps of the insides of every building-- each floor of each house, mansion*, inn, temple, store, mages guild, and palace. My character wasn't a Thief and wasn't good at picking locks, so I was using my sword to bash in doors that I couldn't pick the locks on. This eventually caused my weapon to break, even though my character was a Knight and self-repaired his gear, because I was damaging my sword faster than I was self-repairing it.

[*If you spend any amount of time "visiting" the various homes in a city, you'll quickly see the difference between a regular house and what I call a mansion. I was calling them manors, but since they're inside the city walls rather than out in the countryside I think they're more properly mansions, even if most of them are surrounded by hedges and hence could be said to have "land" (or yards) accompanying them. I'm not sure if the game uses a specific term for them, because I haven't scoured the manual for one.]

Anyway, I decided to start over with a different character, but when I tried to bash open doors that I couldn't open by picking their locks, I discovered that I could no longer do so! No matter how many times I swung my sword at a door, it would not open. Note that this specifically relates to the entry doors of houses and mansions in a city, not to normally-locked* doors inside a dungeon, crypt, or mausoleum [*as opposed to magically-locked doors that require a key].

What I'm wondering is whether the ability to bash open an entry door to a house or mansion in a city might be another thing that got "broken" for new characters created from within the game?

[Satribe]

Any recommendation on how to bash in a door, without getting killed by guards. On my main character I found some locked doors in a dungeon and had no trouble breaking them open, but he's a pretty beefy character with a bit of experience behind him. I haven't tried to break in anywhere else.

I wanted to test your comment about the character not being able to break in (or not nearly as easily). I just ran through the dungeon, but now I can't find a door where the guards don't show up after a few swings and kill me. I assume I'm going to have to level her up first. But do you have any other advice?

[SeaGtGruff]

You can try killing the guards, or just run from them and go through the nearest unlocked door-- i.e., to an inn, temple, store, mages guild, palace, or city gates. The guards won't follow you [edit: through the door or gate], and there's no bounty, so once you've successfully escaped you can turn right around and try again.

But what I used to do was save my game, try to pick the lock, and if that didn't work I'd restore my game and try bashing in the door. Now I just kill the guards, since my AR, weapon damage, and agility are good enough to take them out easily.

[Satribe]

Breaking down doors with a Hearthfire or Morningstar start date character.

Well, I have yet to successfully break down a village door. I keep getting killed. But I had no trouble breaking down doors in dungeons with either character. I will probably not continue to test the village doors, but here are my other experiences and discoveries.

Notes from Patch 1.05

+ New characters created from within the game will work

Apparently there was a problem with characters created after a game was started. Testing has shown that beginning with this patch, characters created after starting a game, after loading a game, or simply opening the "LOAD SAVE GAME" option with or without loading a game; will cause all new characters created during the gaming session to have a start date of Morning Star, instead of the expected Hearthfire.

Notes from Patch 1.06

+ Can't get an Artifact Quest: This seems to be related to picking the
Start New Game option while in the middle of another game. We recommend
that you do not choose this option.

During one test with a "Morning Star" character, I noticed while in the starting dungeon that not everything I collected from a defeated monster would appear in my inventory. Specifically "buckler" from Goblins. At least three times, I took the "buckler" from a defeated Goblin, but none of them ever appeared in my inventory. While it is possible that this was random and not related to how the character was created, I think it would be better to err on the side of safety and follow the recommendation form the 1.06 patch notes.


"We recommend that you do not choose this option."

[SeaGtGruff]

With regard to bashing in doors to houses in cities, I always save my game just before I try to pick a lock or bash in a door, so I can restore and try again if I fail. But eventually you'll be able to kill any guards that attack you.

All I know is that a couple of years ago I was playing Arena a lot on a variety of new characters, because I was interested in mapping the various towns, including mapping the insides of the houses, inns, stores, temples, mages guilds, and palaces. I'm pretty sure I was able to get into every* house by either picking the lock or bashing in the door, and I'm also pretty sure this was on a Knight, because I was surprised when my weapon finally broke, since I didn't yet realize that auto-repairing requires sleeping for a certain number of hours. [*I actually couldn't get into a couple of houses, because their doors are inaccessible due to being surrounded by impassible hedges.]

Anyway, I started a new character from within the game, and was no longer able to bash in doors, no matter how much I tried. And I can't do it on my current character, either, who I apparently also created from within the game.

The next character I roll is going to be from right after booting up the game.