Loss of Spells

[Reizoko13]

There are a significant number of spells that were available in previous games that are mysteriously missing--levitation and chameleon come to mind. Although I know the official explanations for game-breaking, I'd like to see an in-game reason. There haven't been any real 'dark' ages recently, as far as loss of knowledge is concerned, so why do these spells disappear? Do they just go out of fashion? Arguably, the College at Winterhold has been fairly secluded, but something as useful as levitation should be pretty universal. Laws shouldn't matter, either. The Mages' Guild outlawed necromancy, but necromantic spells were still freely available to the player. I want a good reason for why so many spells have been lost. Any ideas?

[Dovahkiin1]

I blame memory loss

[Taters]

Because sneak, at higher perks, is so ridiculous, there's little need for chameleon. As for levitation, Oblivion lacked it, and in Skyrim, it would make a lot of traveling SO much easier, it'd be unbalanced.

[Reizoko13]

Yes, I know the official reasons for removing the spells. I want an in-game reason as to why they're no longer present.

I blame memory loss

Just because elves can live to be 1,000 doesn't mean they can remember anything? This is acceptable.

[Narzul]

There are no in-game reasons.

[Akiraka]

There are no in-game reasons.

Maybe not in Skyrim. Perhaps taking place some 200 years after Oblivion had the thought far removed from most peoples' memory. But, in Oblivion, I believe it was that "The Emperor placed a ban" on it's use or such.

Now, what's interesting, is that, if that were the case, then the White-Gold treaty could probably have given great cause for the Elves to begin flying around at will again, especially as a way to solidify their dominance over the Imperials et cetera. ...Oh lore-holes.

[JoeyDestructo]

would love to see how levitation worked out with the Dragons and all


aerial combat

[Trelares]

I doubt there is any ingame reason, if you compare the spell list from morrowind with the spells that are available now(Skyrim) there are likely 30 - 50 % missing. Maybe even more than 50% as I never counted, so it is doubtable that in a bit more than 200 years more than the half knowledge of magic would be lost or banned.

For the long living mer, the reason could be that mages that are that old, doesn't want to share their knowledge with us as their big repertoire of spells makes them mightier than us?

Edit: So I did a little comparison on pure effects that are "lost":

Wall of text inside

Spoiler:

Illusion:

Blind
Chameleon
Charm
Sanctuary
Silence
Sound

Conjuration:

All bound armor (5 Spells)
Some bound weapons (3 Spells)
Command
Many of the summon spells

Alteration:

Burden
All elemental shields
Feather
Jump
Levitate
Lock
Open
Slowfall
Swift Swim
Waterwalkgin

Destruction:

All damage spells
Disintegrate
All drains
Poison
All weakness

Restoration:

All fortify spells
All cure spells
All resist spells

Mysticism:(yes it is gone but not all effects)

All absorb spells (absorb health, magicka ...)
detect key and enchantment
Both Interventions
Mark and Recall
Dispel
Reflect and Absorb

Should be most missing effects now^^

[Pancake]

I doubt there is any ingame reason, if you compare the spell list from morrowind with the spells that are available now(Skyrim) there are likely 30 - 50 % missing. Maybe even more than 50% as I never counted, so it is doubtable that in a bit more than 200 years more than the half knowledge of magic would be lost or banned.

For the long living mer, the reason could be that mages that are that old, doesn't want to share their knowledge with us as their big repertoire of spells makes them mightier than us?

Edit: So I did a little comparison on pure effects that are "lost":

Wall of text inside

Spoiler:

Illusion:

Blind
Chameleon
Charm
Sanctuary
Silence
Sound

Conjuration:

All bound armor (5 Spells)
Some bound weapons (3 Spells)
Command
Many of the summon spells

Alteration:

Burden
All elemental shields
Feather
Jump
Levitate
Lock
Open
Slowfall
Swift Swim
Waterwalkgin

Destruction:

All damage spells
Disintegrate
All drains
Poison
All weakness

Restoration:

All fortify spells
All cure spells
All resist spells

Mysticism:(yes it is gone but not all effects)

All absorb spells (absorb health, magicka ...)
detect key and enchantment
Both Interventions
Mark and Recall
Dispel
Reflect and Absorb

Should be most missing effects now^^

Maybe we will find all of those spells on DLC or Expansion Pack . I personally would love that somehow in a downloadable content one of people from college decide to practice mysticism again and thus unlocking mysticism as one of the skill tree. Spells including Absorb, Reflect, Dispel, Resist, Silence and Slow.

[Trelares]

It would be awesome if some of them could be implemented again, Jump would be very helpfull to climp some mountains . And I loved mark and recall, it is an easy way to give players who don't want to use fast travel atleast one point on the map that can be reached in no time.

[Akiraka]

Reading that list made me bawrage

[Iaius Amaius Heron]

it'd be unbalanced.

You know I once had a button on my keyboard which let me deliver a very painful jolt of electricity to everyone who cried "unbalanced" or "broken". But I lost that button, and as a result these forums are no longer fun to read.

Stop calling everything broken and unbalanced, children. Seriously, it's gotten as bad as Godwin's Law now. It's people like you that has cause the gradual dumbing-down and punishment of creativity that has pervaded gaming in the past decade. This is why I wish gaming was still the realm of true geeks and nerds (and not faux-geek hipsters who use macs), because you're ruining it for everyone by whining about every little thing, especially when your "concerns" are echo-chamber-borne, completely ungrounded lies.

[Dark Spark]

... I want a good reason for why so many spells have been lost. Any ideas?

Some scholar spilled coffee over the Elder Scroll he was looking over one morning. All of a sudden, all these spells stopped working.

[SlfTh3Chl3f]

... I want a good reason for why so many spells have been lost. Any ideas?

Some scholar spilled coffee over the Elder Scroll he was looking over one morning. All of a sudden, all these spells stopped working.

I'll go with that explanation.

[DorostheConqueror]

The real reason they took out those spells, from a development perspective, was that they wanted to optimize the game for the console market (keep it small and simple), and those spell effects tested poorly in XBox polling groups from Oblivion. It had nothing to do with "balance" or "redundancy"- try saying that when you're wielding a 200+ damage sword thanks to Smithing, or when you're using four whole weapon types (blunt! axe! sword! dagger!) when clearly just one would do (TES VI foreshadowing?).

As for a Lore reason, well, there isn't one. There's a reference in one of the new skill books to the fact that Enchanters these days are idiots, but we are given no real explanation for why this is the case. Just chalk it up to one of those things that Bethesda would rather you quietly forgot, like crossbows, spears, and Colovian fur hats.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Don't forget Scroll of Icarian Flight. If you're going to take out Jump and Levitation, at least put in this!

[Trelares]

Maybe the most memorable easter egg in morrowind, but you know without slowfall or levitate the scrolls are useless^^.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Not if the mountain you're trying to reach is right below the peak of your jump.

[Reizoko13]

I agree that Icarian Flight would actually be a good addition. In Morrowind, it was a fun way to suicide. Here, it would actually be useful--the mountains are annoyingly massive. Mountainous, as it were. One jump would get you halfway up the Throat of the World. Still annoyed that Acrobatics isn't a skill in the region where it would be most useful.

I would love to see a DLC with all the extra spells included. I really would. It would probably have to be just spells, though--that way the people who don't like them due to balance/other Grinchy issues can just ignore the DLC and buy something else. Me? I want feather and Chameleon, and I would be willing to pay for their return.

[metaphysician]

I wouldn't mind extra spells in future DLC, myself. I just would like some thought about each inclusion, rather than just "random spells from prior games." If Unlock were added, and were too strong, it'd make Lockpick unnecessary, which I think is undesired. So if they did include Unlock, it should be expensive for the level; the Master level version should not only be a Master level Alteration spell, but its mana cost should be high enough that you basically need the Master level mana cost perk and a very high magicka pool to cast it.

Feather would work fine as an Alteration spell, and Chameleon would be fine as a lower level Illusion spell ( though I'd make it work, mechanically, as a fortify to Sneak rather than a separate effect ).

[chaddle]

Well I miss Chameleon, because Invisibility in this game serves little to no purpose at all, I get detected all the time when I am invisible, which to me makes absolutely no sense

[Dark Spark]

Well I miss Chameleon, because Invisibility in this game serves little to no purpose at all, I get detected all the time when I am invisible, which to me makes absolutely no sense

Well, it makes sense if Invisibility is useless against an enemy who has already seen you.

Think about it: if you see an enemy turn invisible, what is the first thing you do? You take note of their last position and relative speed, then strike for the slight visual ripple they make in that particular area. You're aware of their presence, and so you're keeping a keener lookout for anything out of the ordinary.

If a human player can overcome Invisibility this way, perhaps the NPCs do as well. Which means Invisibility works to prevent detection in the first place, not to escape detection in the middle of a fight.





As much as we may bemoan the disappearance of so many spells, anyone willing to profess their love for some of the new ones that have made their way into the common grimoire? I mean, you can set magical landmines now. 'Command' spells are gone from Illusion, but 'Reanimate' is now standard-issue in Conjuration.

[Laryngitis]

You know, I always wanted to see the Darkness effect of Namira's Shroud turned into a spell...skip invisibility and even chameleon, with a spell to turn out light sources, your sneak character can have tons of fun.

[Pancake]

Well I miss Chameleon, because Invisibility in this game serves little to no purpose at all, I get detected all the time when I am invisible, which to me makes absolutely no sense

Well, it makes sense if Invisibility is useless against an enemy who has already seen you.

Think about it: if you see an enemy turn invisible, what is the first thing you do? You take note of their last position and relative speed, then strike for the slight visual ripple they make in that particular area. You're aware of their presence, and so you're keeping a keener lookout for anything out of the ordinary.

If a human player can overcome Invisibility this way, perhaps the NPCs do as well. Which means Invisibility works to prevent detection in the first place, not to escape detection in the middle of a fight.





As much as we may bemoan the disappearance of so many spells, anyone willing to profess their love for some of the new ones that have made their way into the common grimoire? I mean, you can set magical landmines now. 'Command' spells are gone from Illusion, but 'Reanimate' is now standard-issue in Conjuration.

Yes, I prefer invisibility skyrim way, in oblivion I could just storm through running to sigil chamber without a single daedra noticing. It's LOLworthy.

Rune spells are good addition along with chain of lightning, elemental cloak spell, elemental wall spell, and magelight for those who hate hovering light on the head.

[JoeyDestructo]

I love the new Master dstruction spells .....

especially Lightening storm, @ 42 magicka a second the damage to cost ratio is insane