self-imposed restrictions for a more balanced experience

[galzohar]

After breaking the game with a mage in dragonplate and free spells, I decided to start fresh, this time without abusing anything. Since the game has so much to abuse, the list for what I can't do became pretty long. I'm still not sure how the game would work with those restrictions, but so far it seems to work as long as I don't run into higher level enemies which I'm not supposed to be able to defeat.


1. No selling to vendors. All your gold is the gold you loot directly and get from quest rewards.

2. No buying any items you would equip or use to make items you would equip. Buying stuff like a mining pick or spell books is fine though, since it doesn't really make the game much easier, just less annoying, and isn't really abusive.

3. No consumables. Enchants and soul gems for recharging them is fine, though, but potions/poisons/scrolls are not.

4. No smithing/enchanting. You might still not break the game without this restrictions since you can't buy materials from vendors to power-level them, but figured I'd keep it safe and include this restriction.

5. No % reduction above 50%. This means you must keep yourself vulnerable to at least 50% of enemy damage (via armor/resists), and cannot reduce cost of spells to lower than 50% by stacking cost reductions. Keep in mind that magic resist and racials stack strangely with elemental resists, so make sure you understand how they work (I still need to test some of it), and the restriction means that after you factor all the different stacking mechanics, you must take at least 50% damage compared to a naked character of a race with no resistances.

6. No gear swapping in combat. If you want, you can also make it more strict and forbid opportunistic gear swapping (so you run around with the same set of armor regardless of what enemy you're facing), but I'm not sure it'll be possible to finish the game like that. Weapon swapping is OK, of course. It's simply no swapping in/out of +stam/hp/mana gear for free regen, or swapping to frost resist items right as a dragon starts breathing frost and swap out immediately after. Those are pretty abusive.

7. No exiting a dungeon once you start it, unless you load to a save from before you entered it. This is to prevent you from level-locking the dungeon to a lower level and coming back at a higher level and breeze through it.

8. No followers. No help from any NPCs whenever you actually have a choice. They scale with difficulty and trivialize the game.

9. No summons. I think they scale with difficulty as well. If they don't, though, you could remove this restriction.


Hopefully, the above restrictions will be enough to make the game challenging without making it impossible, and remove all the abuses which weren't really any fun to abuse anyway.

If you try these, please keep in mind that it seems like some enemies have a minimum level, and you simply won't be able to kill them. This is OK, don't give up, come back to them at a higher level (just don't save inside a dungeon until you're sure its for your level). Please report how you did! I will report as I progress further. So far it seems OK (level 11) with a lot of running around and healing. Playing a Breton with dual-wield, heavy armor and restoration.

[Fajita!]

Meh, if I really wanted to abuse the system I'd just use the console.


I just play how I want to for the most part.

[BlackDrake]

Breton...dual wield...heavy armor...restoration?! I'm not the only one, thank god XD

Just a point. I find the smithing/enchanting restriction to be abit...TOO restricting. I think it should just be enchanting restrictions, as the smithing thing is realistic to say the least. Also, this means the only way to improve weapons and armor is to take them to the workbenches and stuff, which does make sense

Also, the potions/poisons is a little restricting as well, but that does actually make large battles interesting. Having to use a restoration spell instead of drinking a potion whilst you're fighting Draugr Overlords or something...that I do like

Apart from that, it does make the game more interesting. Thanks for the suggestions to it

[Talamare]

Bretons should clearly be banned as well

Their still the strongest race by far

[BlackDrake]

Bretons should clearly be banned as well

Their still the strongest race by far

I'm not so sure about that...against an Orc or Nord of the same level (at adept difficulty) and they can usually end you rather easily.

[Talamare]

Bretons should clearly be banned as well

Their still the strongest race by far

I'm not so sure about that...against an Orc or Nord of the same level (at adept difficulty) and they can usually end you rather easily.

Nonsense

The theoretical damage output is the same for all races, except Bretons get the strongest Racial in the game

Tho, you do bring up a fair point, Orc Racial is fairly OP as well (+50% damage and -50% damage), so they should be banned as well

[BlackDrake]

Bretons should clearly be banned as well

Their still the strongest race by far

I'm not so sure about that...against an Orc or Nord of the same level (at adept difficulty) and they can usually end you rather easily.

Nonsense

The theoretical damage output is the same for all races, except Bretons get the strongest Racial in the game

Tho, you do bring up a fair point, Orc Racial is fairly OP as well (+50% damage and -50% damage), so they should be banned as well

If you mean about the Dragonskin power, it isn't actually that useful. In fact, I've barely used it. I don't see it as that good.

In my opinion, the Orc's are rather Op'd...but that makes it more interesting as well.

[kaltorak]

I agree about some. The game is too easy if played for "perfection". But in my opinion, this restrictions should make it harder (or less easier) without removing game content or fun.

So:

1. No selling to vendors. All your gold is the gold you loot directly and get from quest rewards.

disagree on this one. weight is penalty enough. It would also reduce the gratification of rewards after achieving something if you can't use the item yourself

2. No buying any items you would equip or use to make items you would equip. Buying stuff like a mining pick or spell books is fine though, since it doesn't really make the game much easier, just less annoying, and isn't really abusive.

I play with this restriction.

3. No consumables. Enchants and soul gems for recharging them is fine, though, but potions/poisons/scrolls are not.

a bit too harsh, also removes too much game content

4. No smithing/enchanting. You might still not break the game without this restrictions since you can't buy materials from vendors to power-level them, but figured I'd keep it safe and include this restriction.

same as 3, removes too much game content

5. No % reduction above 75%.

totally agree. I usually don't like caps. But when u can reach 100% of several op things, it doesn't make sense

6. No gear swapping in combat.

don't like this one. Makes combat boring

7. No exiting a dungeon once you start it, unless you load to a save from before you entered it. This is to prevent you from level-locking the dungeon to a lower level and coming back at a higher level and breeze through it.

I never exit. Everything is doable, and very rarely it's even hard

8. No followers. No help from any NPCs whenever you actually have a choice. They scale with difficulty and trivialize the game.

I don't like followers in any game. haven't even tried in skyrim

9. No summons. I think they scale with difficulty as well. If they don't, though, you could remove this restriction.

mmmmh I use them if I do a class focused on them. Not on my warrior to have easier fights

[galzohar]

The point is to first and foremost make the game more challenging. Of course after I finish this playthrough (or get stuck somewhere), I might consider updating it, but this is what I'm going with so far until proven that it's too hard/easy by actual in-game experience.

Yes, cutting out parts of the game may feel a bit bad, but playing an easy game feels worse IMO. Until we can make mods that will truly rebalance the broken aspects, the only thing we can do is just not use them at all. Using something just because "not using it feels like it's taking a part out of the game" is, at least for me, going too easy on myself. I like having it the hardest way possible, as long as it's actually possible to get through the game that way. Broken game content is not really all that fun in the long run anyway, might as well remove it until it can be fixed.

If it ends up impossible to beat the game without smithing, I will try to come up with a way to restrict it without completely disallowing it. So far, though, it seems easy enough.

Keep in mind that this list is based on just a single week and a single playthrough up to level 41 with no restrictions, plus just 11 levels on a 2nd playthrough with those restrictions. As I (and you) get more experience I will update the list if I think it needs to be updated. Preferably based on a "I added X restriction and the game was still not too hard" comments.


As for your specific comments:

1. Weight is not a real penalty, since you can make trips. Besides, you get so much gold even if you're lazy to make trips. Cutting vendors out of the game means you can spend more time on the fun stuff while also having a better challenge.

3+4. It may remove too much, but removing it is the only thing we can do until we can fix it with mods.

5. I don't like caps either, but until we can mod a different system (think Diablo 3 resistance and armor system), there's no other way.

6. Combat would only be boring if you don't swap weapons (but swapping weapons is allowed). Swapping a helmet or armor piece mid-battle doesn't make combat more interesting. It makes it abusive.

7. I think it's doable too, that's why the restriction exists, so people don't abuse it to make the game easier than it should be. That's the whole point of the restriction list

[born2beagator]

I'm not going to do these restrictions...but I think I will turn the difficulty up to hard (on adept right now) my argonian mage is nuking everything.

Oh and werewolves are way OP

[galzohar]

Oh, master difficulty is a given. My first playthrough was on master with no consumables, but became too easy due to 100% destruction+restoration spell cost reduction from enchanting, not to mention having it on dragon plate armor with massive enhancements so I can actually tank (even though I didn't really need to if I would try a bit harder not to get hit).

[born2beagator]

I don;t like that dungeons lock at a particular level >_<

[kaltorak]

I would add another restriction I use on every elder scroll game: doing specific chars.
Getting everything just makes the game too easy. I try to focus on a "class". It's ok to have a warrior with restoration, or a rogue with illusion. Otherwise it would take too much fun away. But having everything in one char, makes it too easy.

My 3 chars for example:

-caster without armor, and mostly destruction and conjuration
-warrior with heavy armor, weapon and shield and restoration
-rogue with bow, one handed weapon, sneaking and alteration

If you just take all the skills in one char, he becomes too godly to be fun

[born2beagator]

I would add another restriction I use on every elder scroll game: doing specific chars.
Getting everything just makes the game too easy. I try to focus on a "class". It's ok to have a warrior with restoration, or a rogue with illusion. Otherwise it would take too much fun away. But having everything in one char, makes it too easy.

My 3 chars for example:

-caster without armor, and mostly destruction and conjuration
-warrior with heavy armor, weapon and shield and restoration
-rogue with bow, one handed weapon, sneaking and alteration

If you just take all the skills in one char, he becomes too godly to be fun

I am an Argonian mage who wares robes and concentrates on Destruction and Alteration. I am still nuking everything

[galzohar]

I don't think that's a needed restriction, because spreading yourself out actually makes the game harder, not easier. The less skills you have, the more powerful you will be relative to the enemies, since they level with you. If you level lockpicking, for example, you will simply make the game harder for no good reason. I don't see much point in restrictions that make the game easier, you should do them regardless of whether you're forced to or not

[Musicman247]

You know what would make the game SUPER challenging? Run around naked, no spells, no enchantments, not potions, you can't use your shouts, and can only fight with an iron dagger! Make it as if it were really you out there fighting those monsters!

[Will Zurmacht]

and can only fight with an iron dagger!

Still too ez if you abuse (aka use) smithing!

Verily, the prophesied Creation Kit will save us. Though when I played the excellent Oscuro's OO, it was so hard at the beginning that when I reached a plateau of being able to beat stuff around level 10, I thought I had won and quit playing.

[Mucro]

I'm refusing to use magic with my current guy.

[galzohar]

With no magic you'll probably have to resort to potion spamming and/or lower difficulty, which I think is less interesting.

Musicman, as soon as you finish the main quest like that, I promise I will try do the same. Until then I'll be sticking with those restrictions, which I must say, so far made the game much more fun than what it was on the first playthrough. As long as I don't try to kill monsters that are way higher level than me (aka crazy bears when you're level 6 or frost trolls when you're level 13). These restrictions far from make the game tedious/masochistic if you're not trying to jump and kill stuff that aren't meant for your level.

[Sloady]

I could do this, or I could just play the in a way that doesn't break the game

[galzohar]

hmm, the exact point of this is playing in a way that doesn't break the game. If you want a challenge, that is. You can't just "drink a potion when you need it", because that means you can't die. You can't just "use smithing when my weapons/armor feel weak" because then your weapons/armor are overpowered.

The idea is if a restriction isn't making the game impossible or extremely annoying, and doesn't prevent you from taking on more interesting restrictions, then it's probably a good one.

Of course you can just go and play any kind of easy-mode, super-easy-mode, or super-duper-easy-mode, nobody is stopping you. But then why are you reading this thread?

[Talamare]

Heres a different Challenge Mode - Master difficulty

Easy
No Allies, No Summons, No Followers, Not even a Horse

Medium
No Enchanting
No Alchemy, Potions that you find/buy are allowed, Cooking is allowed but the long duration stamina regen are not
No Smithing

Hard
No Armor, You must wear basic Clothing, No Alteration Armor either!
No Consumables
No Enchantments, You are not allowed to use any item that is enchanted
No Orc or Breton race

Daedric Mode
No Skill Perks
No Fast Travel (Carriages are allowed)

[galzohar]

Well, medium is easier than what I listed. If you can pull off your "hard" (not to mention "daedric"), let me know, and I might take on the challenge

Remember I'm actually playing with the restrictions I wrote and am doing more than fine so far, so it's not something I just made up in 2 minutes.

[Talamare]

Well, medium is easier than what I listed. If you can pull off your "hard" (not to mention "daedric"), let me know, and I might take on the challenge

Remember I'm actually playing with the restrictions I wrote and am doing more than fine so far, so it's not something I just made up in 2 minutes.

To be fair I essentially played your way as well accidentally
I still sold to merchants but I never bought anything from merchants (Im a bit of a gold hoarder)

I also never used consumables since I like to sell them
I found smithing useless on my mage, and was too lazy to do enchanting
I havent had a chance to increase any % to over 75, I also hate NPCs (since I have a tendency to hit them in combat)

So yea, Ive been technically naturally playing your style

Now, I havent done the things Ive typed up and Im still modifying it a bit, but I just because Im not good enough to do something, doesnt mean that others around the world wouldnt be interested in it

[adamly]

Im going to make a new character with these new restrictions. Sounds fun.