On the Casualization of the TES series

[Da_BossMaN69]

Hardly, just look at the actual spells and you'll understand the school is still physic related, or at least encompasses many different areas.

For starters, you have the actual power of Alchemy (as understood in the classical sense) with Transmute.

Manipulation of objects, and technically the control (or lack of) gravity through telekinesis.

The ability to see the life force of others through Detect Life

and much more, it's not just armor and paralysis.

[CBR JGWRR]

I wouldn't be so sure on those - Telekenesis and detect life/undead came into alteration from Mysticism, Paralysis came into alteration from illusion, along with the light spells, and transmute was new for Skyrim.

In essence, Alteration's only effect is the flesh spells, which are essentially weaker versions of the shield spells, which also had a resist element bit... And were more effective.


O/T -

...have passive frost resistance of 50% for being a vampire. 85% if Nord, 75% if breton.

62.5% for a Breton, but your point still stands.

[Mr.Argonian]

But paralyze never made sense in Illusion. Illusion affects someones mind, altering their perception. While Alteration affects the physical world, affecting everyone, not just one person's mind. Paralyze is not imagined in the affecteds mind, so it belongs in Alteration

[CBR JGWRR]

I would say it could be in both or either. Afterall, Illusion would paralyze the mind, and hence body, whereas Alteration would actually paralyze. Different method, same result.

[Yaije]

Is it ever said that the paralysis in other games was mental or physical. I can see it going both ways personally, that and teh long standing incorporation of such an effect as an "enchantment" spell in D&D has me kinda biased toward illusion.

Really though it's something that could theoretically fit in with alteration, destruction, or illusion depending on how it functions.

[swordsister]

Thanks a lot for the link Velothi. It was a valuable share, and i think it was one of the few videos about a TES game that I 100% agree with.

[KryptonianBlood]

I find myself having a really hard time having fun in Skyrim. Despite the people having routines and talking to each other now, the world just FEELS really dead. I am not quite sure why.


I would say combat is funner, but I either find it too easy, or else still pretty easy except it takes forever. So I can't say I really like the combat after level 20.


but I'm not going to go and list all the things that have been simplified so that 14 year olds will buy the game, thats been posted thousands of times.

Now I know some of you have hope because the game improved some things the non-casuals wanted, un-leveled creatures, but was it an improvement over Oblivion's system in the end? Do we prefer being able to kill everything once we hit 20 (even if we don't enchant, alchemize, or smith) or struggling with lvl 35 skeevers? I dislike both systems and wouldn't even call this an improvement, just trading one flawed leveling system for another fresh flawed leveling system.



But regardless, I pose this question, at what point of simplification will you just quit the series? Assuming none of us are such fanboys that we would buy the games even if they became on-rails first-person shooters where we kill altmer nazis with machine guns, what would it take? What thing or things or lack of things in a elder scrolls game would make you deem the series a lost cause and stop buying?



for me, one thing will do it, a story with as little depth as skyrims. If this happens again in the next game I'm done, no more mods, no DLC, I'm out. What would make you do the same?

[udubdawgs]

the dumbing-down and casualization of tes is undeniable. same with most other games.

it's the number one reason why i am mostly likely going to be "forced", lol, to become a p.c. tes and other rpg-games player. (i hate and despise using a mouse and keyboard, btw.)

the mods can add the depth, complexity, immersion and difficulty, etc., that console game developers seem to not want to do themselves.

again, the dumbing-down is very obvious and is an argument that is easy to prove and full-proof.

edit: in skyrim, i had to create endless lists of "hardcore rules" for my characters. and, i absolutely HATE having to use my imagination for something that should have been in the game mechanics. i'll use my imagination anyways, but, basic gameplay needs to have in-game restrictions, mechanics, affects and impacts. for example: having a rule where i eat and sleep is meaningless if it doesn't have in-game mechanics and consequences.

this issue is an unbelievably HUGE one for me. and, i have lots to say on the matter. where are the threads, lol?

[KryptonianBlood]

Thanks for the reply Udu. and I agree.


Please if any mods can remove my post (not this one lol) that would be appreciated. My post was originally a topic that was about what specifially would it take as far as simplification goes, to make users not buy the next game. To continue that conversation here would be to derail and to stray away from this TC's thread. I am morally against that and will make a new thread about my topic.


and if MM want's to merge it or ban me he has the power to do so, but I refuse to derail this TC's thread with my very different topic that simply also involves simplification but is focus on something entirely different.

[House of the Wolf]

Everything in life relies on positives and negatives.

A game like Skyrim definitely has its positives, and most definitely has its negatives. And the fact that it is in a series that spans roughly two decades, with a fan base that has increased exponentially with the release of each sequel, makes it much more likely that each sequel is going to have its share of detractors--namely those with a sense of nostalgia for any previous iteration.

Skyrim definitely has its flaws--from its rough start with memory-optimization (particularly on the PS3), to the massive amount of bugs/glitches (many of which were/are game-breaking)--and its main story-arc and lack of major consequences for (at least) major decisions definitely leave a lot to be desired. But for every flaw it holds, it's still an excellent game.

What I think a lot of gamers that complain about Skyrim are looking for are some sort of continuation of Morrowind (possibly Oblivion, for some), and I personally think that's kinda daft. Both of the more recent previous iterations had their flaws. Morrowind will always be the best iteration in terms of pure RPG elements, and will probably be considered among the best of any RPG game all-time, but it was definitely not for the casual-gamer (especially those who, for instance, work full-time), as it required a fair amount of planning (or a tremendous amount, if you were/are a perfectionist). And while that level of time and complexity can make a game fun for some (me included), most gamers are not likely to dive right into it. Skyrim, on the other hand, offers a bit more of a balanced system that offers a fair amount of complexity for those who want it, but that others can just pick up and play and not have to make sure that everything they're doing is perfect. To keep things in perspective, I distinctly remember a [&@%!]-ton of people complaining about how broken Morrowind was, and certain key aspects that Morrowind offered.

Which is what leads to what really grinds my gears: why, if you genuinely don't like the game, would you spend a decent amount of your time text-blocking about it? I understand that you're frustrated, and maybe don't have anyone who will listen to you on a regular basis, but why bother if you're really that disenfranchised with the game? The only reason, that I see, that you spend so much time griping about any particular game--on one of its fans' largest forums, no less--is that you are trying to convince everyone else to follow-suit, thereby not really necessarily constructively criticizing (or even venting). Everyone has a right to their opinion(s) (in most nations/territories, anyhow), and I'm one of the first to welcome any sharing of said opinion(s), but the threads dedicated to the detraction of Skyrim (and both Oblivion and Morrowind before it) gets just a little bit tiresome after 17months of it.


tl;dr
Skyrim lacks in a few RPG-related areas, but is still a pretty damn good game. Oh yeah, and I'm personally tired of seeing yet another thread (with some of the same users/user-types) dedicated to why Skyrim=sucks and Morrowind=best ever (despite, you know, its own detractors when it was the latest ES game...just saying).


tl;sdr
If you seriously don't like the game:
a) stop playing it
b) write a letter to Bethesda explaining why
c) I'm well aware of my irony in this post--don't care.


Oh, and if you like the game, and are simply listing things that you wish were better about it, then disregard the last bit above. To the rest of you...you know who you are.

[udubdawgs]

i'll keep it simple, since, i don't feel like making an argument right now,lol:

the dumbing-down of tes is undeniable and easily proven. one needs to hardly think playing skyrim. the game almost plays itself. failure is hardly an option. everything is accessible. my young daughter can play it without me even helping her. it is simplicity itself. complex and deep are not how i'd come close to describing it. the game actually reduces one's options.

what gets me, yes, angry as a gamer is that i see how much potential skyrim had when taking morrowind, oblivion and other pc rpg's into consideration. it could have been so much more. instead, it went the completely opposite direction. the "advances" that skyrim made are completely superficial and EASILY accomplished. there is nothing creative or complex about using a skill to increase it. the perks are unbelievably lame and lacking. the elimination of attributes is unacceptable and undeniably LIMITING, in terms, of depth and customization and replay value and sophistication.

when i look at the direction, the beneficial changes i see are so mind-blowingly simple that i get irritated when people even call them "improvements." many of us talked about those changes years ago. as well, we could all get together and brainstorm for a half-hour and get more "improvements" and creative mechanical ideas.

i don't want a roleplaying sim. that always needs to be an option and i will always use my imagination. but, to gut the entire in-game mechanics and limit my gameplay is unacceptable.

[logansrun]

oh, this again. in engineering terms it is what is known as "idiot proofing".

[udubdawgs]

oh, this again. in engineering terms it is what is known as "idiot proofing".

the day people stop trying to argue the incorrect view that tes isn't being dumbed-down or simplified or made for the casual gamer is the day when the threads will decline and eventually stop.

it's like saying the media isn't blatantly and heavily liberal.

[logansrun]

it's like saying the media isn't blatantly and heavily liberal.

unless you count fox, the christian science monitor, the wall street journal, etc.

*edit*

and que the wrist slapping for political content ... I know, I know ...



but yes, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of dawgs post ...

[udubdawgs]

fox is hardly conservative. they are only glaring in that they allow conservatives a major platform at all. even if i concede they are "more" conservative (btw, i don't concede that at all,lol) that % is maybe what, 60/40? lol, big deal. so the only "conservative" news outlet on tv is a whopping 60% conservative. lol.

what were we talking about,lol?

[logansrun]

idiot proofing

[Musicman247]

You can see the topic at the top of each post.

On the Casualization of the TES series

[logansrun]

that's what I said ... "idiot proofing"

[ZackyZombify]

So anyone that can't figure out what to do during any part of skyrim is an idiot? Or just by your standards an idiot?

[udubdawgs]

So anyone that can't figure out what to do during any part of skyrim is an idiot? Or just by your standards an idiot?

95% of the dumbing-down has absolutely nothing to do with how to do a quest. though, your question relates to the other 5%, namely, the map/journal/quest marker system.

the unbelievably childish "puzzle" system also encompasses that share of the pie.

[logansrun]

So anyone that can't figure out what to do during any part of skyrim is an idiot? Or just by your standards an idiot?

I never said idiot proofing was an exact science. where there's a will there will always be a way to screw up even basic directions. hell, just look at GPS users for a veritable cornucopia of prime examples, but yes, when you consider the direction of even those applications, going from detailed and sometimes not-so-detailed directions to arrow pointers and map markers, direct "fast travel" instead of wandering around the wilderness, etc. what else would you call it?

[Musicman247]

User friendly.

[logansrun]

User friendly.

"But most people are idiots."
Caius Cosades

[udubdawgs]

User friendly.

lol, well-played.
however, your response perfectly highlights the shortsightedness of those who don't feel tes is dumbed-down.

marker toggles. don't open your journal. don't toggle off quick-travel. dead is dead toggle. keep all the h.u.d. toggles enabled. those are very meaningful game mechanics we're talking about.

you see, those particular idiot-proof, i mean, user-friendly aspects can all still be used. i, on the other hand, DON'T HAVE THE OPTION.

[Br3admax]

User friendly.

"But most people are idiots."
Caius Cosades

To bad we have rules, then, huh?