Dragonborn (DLC) Discussion

[GodsBePraised]

Not really. he drops good loot though.

He's about the same as facing a level 40/50 odd Player character IMO.

You probably shouldn't fight him at Apprentice difficulty then.. because he is not in any way the same as a level 40-50 NPC.

[CBR JGWRR]

Not really. he drops good loot though.

He's about the same as facing a level 40/50 odd Player character IMO.

You probably shouldn't fight him at Apprentice difficulty then.. because he is not in any way the same as a level 40-50 NPC.

Umm, what part of player character don't you understand?

If I meant a NPC I would have wrote it.

(Also I faced him on expert - it was after karstaag I dropped to permenantly on novice)

[Derp53]

Not really. he drops good loot though.

He's about the same as facing a level 40/50 odd Player character IMO.

You probably shouldn't fight him at Apprentice difficulty then.. because he is not in any way the same as a level 40-50 NPC.

Umm, what part of player character don't you understand?

If I meant a NPC I would have wrote it.

(Also I faced him on expert - it was after karstaag I dropped to permenantly on novice)

I don't know about you guys, but I got a killcam on Kaarstag after the first two power attacks

[CBR JGWRR]

I don't know about you guys, but I got a killcam on Kaarstag after the first two power attacks

At least 1500 damage per hit, not bad.

[brain7734]

Derp 53, you have 1998 posts. That was a GREAT year......Anyway, I was wondering if there are more pages to the Herm-Mora books. It feels like there should be a complete book, but it leaves you in suspense! Anyone have info?

[Archer]

No, thats about it. TBH, I was disappointed as well. Some of the books looked interesting as well.

[GodsBePraised]

Umm, what part of player character don't you understand?

If I meant a NPC I would have wrote it.

(Also I faced him on expert - it was after karstaag I dropped to permenantly on novice)

Must have had a massive brain fart, my bad.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

After going back and playing Bloodmoon again on a fairly high level character with good equipment, I have to say Karstaag was more of a challenge while alive than as the undead abomination he was in Skyrim. Morrowind's enemies overall were just less forgiving. In that game he had over 5000 HP which regenerated quickly and was immune to almost all kinds of special damage (but he was weak to fire, like all trolls and frost giants.) Overall, though, I'd say if you had high level gear in Morrowind you still struggled more than if you had the best possible gear and skills in Skyrim. It's hard to compare the two, but on the other hand whereas bosses like Almalexia rape stomped me, I never had much problem in Skyrim with even the toughest bosses like Potema or Alduin.

[Witchery]

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

Yes. I believe someone did.

*Draws a picture of an elephant and then taps his forehead*

[Dohva.]

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

You're so cute, Witchery. You just love those hags.

[Witchery]

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

Yes. I believe someone did.

*Draws a picture of an elephant and then taps his forehead*

Oh my, I totally forgot about that thread. I'm sorry.

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

You're so cute, Witchery. You just love those hags.

Oh, pfft. I just came across it on the wiki and found it interested that they were there.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

The Glenmoril Witches have a slightly different character model from the normal Hagravens. They have white hair and feathers and slightly more elaborate costumes. I don't recall if the ones on Solstheim were any stronger than the ones in Skyrim, but they're tougher than normal Hagravens. I also have no idea what changed over the last 200 years that transformed them and made them hostile. They used to be three reclusive but nice old human ladies. Same with the Glenmoril witches in previous games and lore. The whole hagraven pact must have been a relatively recent historical development we don't have all the details for yet. Forsworn lore claims that Hagravens have existed since at least the earliest human settlements in Tamriel, though. It's just that they weren't always synonymous with the Glenmoril.

[Witchery]

The Glenmoril Witches have a slightly different character model from the normal Hagravens. They have white hair and feathers and slightly more elaborate costumes. I don't recall if the ones on Solstheim were any stronger than the ones in Skyrim, but they're tougher than normal Hagravens. I also have no idea what changed over the last 200 years that transformed them and made them hostile. They used to be three reclusive but nice old human ladies. Same with the Glenmoril witches in previous games and lore. The whole hagraven pact must have been a relatively recent historical development we don't have all the details for yet. Forsworn lore claims that Hagravens have existed since at least the earliest human settlements in Tamriel, though. It's just that they weren't always synonymous with the Glenmoril.

I think that is to distinguish them from "normal" Hagraven's. Hircine's touch, perhaps? They're the only witches that are devoted to him that I know of. The white feathers and hair might have indicated age. . . though I'm sure the black-feathered ones have been around a while for the most part. Red eyes . . . maybe they're albino Hagravens.

I think the whole "old witches becoming Hagravens" thing is only new lore to us, introduced by Skyrim. I think it is an evolution of the idea from Bloodmoon, where one of the three witches turned into a raven. Lore-wise, as stated by the Forsworn source, witches and Forsworn shamans have becoming hags for quite a while. The "spirits of the Reach," if I recall correctly. The power and long-lifespan (perhaps immortality at the cost of their looks ) that comes with being a Hagraven is probably very honorable to witches and Reachmen. Their hostility probably just comes from the fact that they're hideous, bitter-old witches that don't like travelers intruding on their nest.

Hagraven isn't synonymous with Glenmoril, only the ones in Skyrim. Melisande, as you said was a nice old lady; so were Isobel, Ettiene, and Fallaise before they underwent the transformation, probably for the same reason that any witch would. They were Imperial women, they weren't going to live forever. . and a longer life plus ancient magic? Perhaps humanity is a small price to pay for that to some.

Tbh, it is an interesting concept. . I like that they add little touches in the various games and DLC that deal with this. It is sort of similar to vampirism or lycanthropy, with some obvious differences. (girls' only, the magic, the reverence they get from witches/covens and people of the Reach for whatever reason. . . )

[Huntershound]

After going back and playing Bloodmoon again on a fairly high level character with good equipment, I have to say Karstaag was more of a challenge while alive than as the undead abomination he was in Skyrim. Morrowind's enemies overall were just less forgiving. In that game he had over 5000 HP which regenerated quickly and was immune to almost all kinds of special damage (but he was weak to fire, like all trolls and frost giants.) Overall, though, I'd say if you had high level gear in Morrowind you still struggled more than if you had the best possible gear and skills in Skyrim. It's hard to compare the two, but on the other hand whereas bosses like Almalexia rape stomped me, I never had much problem in Skyrim with even the toughest bosses like Potema or Alduin.

Always ran a werewolf and with Hircine's enchanted claws he falls pretty quickly.

Did anyone point out the Glenmoril witches from Bloodmoon being Hagravens in Dragonborn?

Yes, I cried a little, almost as much as when you find out about the other ones. >.> Provided the PC doesn't kill them at least the Glenmoril's legacey lives on.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yes, I cried a little, almost as much as when you find out about the other ones. >.> Provided the PC doesn't kill them at least the Glenmoril's legacey lives on.

It would anyway. The main coven is deep in the mountains between High Rock and Skyrim, near Orc territory. The witches you kill in Skyrim and Solstheim are just provincial covens.

[Witchery]

Yes, I cried a little, almost as much as when you find out about the other ones. >.> Provided the PC doesn't kill them at least the Glenmoril's legacey lives on.

It would anyway. The main coven is deep in the mountains between High Rock and Skyrim, near Orc territory. The witches you kill in Skyrim and Solstheim are just provincial covens.

Apparently the rumors about Melisande in Oblivion were untrue. We were told she would be one of the last Glenmoril, and we meet all kinds of Glenmoril in Skyrim. And the mountains between High Rock and Skyrim are the western Reach, right?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yes, I cried a little, almost as much as when you find out about the other ones. >.> Provided the PC doesn't kill them at least the Glenmoril's legacey lives on.

It would anyway. The main coven is deep in the mountains between High Rock and Skyrim, near Orc territory. The witches you kill in Skyrim and Solstheim are just provincial covens.

Apparently the rumors about Melisande in Oblivion were untrue. We were told she would be one of the last Glenmoril, and we meet all kinds of Glenmoril in Skyrim. And the mountains between High Rock and Skyrim are the western Reach, right?

Correct. There's supposed to be a very large presence of them still living there. They've had many problems with Orc raids over the years, like in the book 2920 but I believe there are several large covens including their ancestral homeland which should contain at least several dozen still.

[Hissien]

I thought It meant she was the last known Glenmoril in Cyrodil.... but then again they always tell us conflicting facts so I wouldnt put it past them..... But this brings up an interesting debate I had with my favorite person on the forums who shall remain nameless <.< >.> .

*Ahem* We have seen the Glenmoril turn into ravens, we have seen Brelyna turn us into various animals and the daedra have changed our form and the forms of others with magic. Taking all of these things into account, would you consider such transformations a viable form of magic and something that generally exists in Tamriel more commonly than we have seen?

[SilentPsycho]

Dragonborn is currently up for pre-purchase on Steam, for PC players.

[Mauin]

Yeah. It was put up yesterday. I've already bought it. Hopefully, on the day it's released, this will give my slow internet a head start. Maybe it'll finish faster than Dawnguard... Though that depends on file size.

Anybody have a guess at how large the download might be?

[Arterion]

I cant wait for the first mushroom tower mods on Nexus and other goodies...

[perylousdemon]

Yeah. It was put up yesterday. I've already bought it. Hopefully, on the day it's released, this will give my slow internet a head start. Maybe it'll finish faster than Dawnguard... Though that depends on file size.

Anybody have a guess at how large the download might be?

No numerical guess, but it's almost certainly bigger than either of the other two. Hopefully, I'll have "real" internet by then, not this crappy Verizon hotspot...

[Ral-Kei]

Granted that the download is about 750 MB on Xbox it's probably going to be around that size I would assume...bigger than the Xbox's Dawnguard download by a good 200 MB.

Also I believe I started this expansion far too early. My character is playing on Expert, is on "The Fate of the Skaal" and is only level 17; he has a hard enough time holding his own against Ash Spawn and Ash Hoppers to even think about fighting anything bigger. Usually a burnt Spriggan can manage to kill him with relative ease and the gang of Draugr Wights I encountered during my latest quest on Solstheim barely took any time to defeat him -- and the whole time he was with a follower. Luckily I've evened the score a bit by getting him a near-100% fire resistance, but still. When I create a new character I'm not rushing into this so quickly.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I thought It meant she was the last known Glenmoril in Cyrodil.... but then again they always tell us conflicting facts so I wouldnt put it past them..... But this brings up an interesting debate I had with my favorite person on the forums who shall remain nameless <.< >.> .

*Ahem* We have seen the Glenmoril turn into ravens, we have seen Brelyna turn us into various animals and the daedra have changed our form and the forms of others with magic. Taking all of these things into account, would you consider such transformations a viable form of magic and something that generally exists in Tamriel more commonly than we have seen?

In Redguard, a mage turns Cyrus into a goblin for like an entire level.