Ulfric Stormcloak-A dormant Thalmor asset???

[Br3admax]

You know me so well.

Anyway , some of those assumption are almost fact. You may not like the concrete, but I do not like the sand. So to speak.

[Minor Edits]

Well put. But Bethesda gives us more beaches than parking complexes.

[OblivionDuruza]

Regardless of your views it was a betrayal, Hammerfell certainly thinks so, and their 'success' was just as much the Redguards' uniting as the awol legion (particularly it was beneficial for the Battle of the Red Ring since it made the Dominion believe General Decianus was still in Hammerfell). The fact remains that the Concordant was signed largely intact and left Hammerfell divided only after Cyrodiil was reclaimed, rather then fortifying their borders in lands to their advantage (Skyrim mountains and Hammerfell deserts).

But we're going a little too far off-topic

Regardless, I still think it's incorrect make an assumption on a man's character under duress (i.e. unaffected and a clear indicator of their moral fiber), at least not in a black-white 1-1 ratio

I think the point was more that Ulfric did buckle under pressue, which is understandable give the circumstances, but also proof of his mortality, and the fact that he is no more than a man and not a great hero of legend.

But yes, I'm sure tot he Redguard it was a betrayal, but I don't see it as unreasonable for an Emperor to make decisions based upon a consequentialist morality. It's all well and good to say that if the Empire had fought on they would have reclaimed Hammerfell, but I don't think that sort of analysis of the situation takes into account the full picture.

I think it's more an idea that the Thalmor (think they) can manipulate Ulfric fairly easily rather than give him orders or get his willing cooperation. They (think) they know what makes him tick and they (believe) they can push his buttons to get him to do as they will.

How effective this is I leave to personal interpretation, hence the parenthetical conditionals.

You have to admit, Ulfric and the Empire are playing right in to the Thalmor's hands. Further, the Empire doesn't want to be fighting a civil war against its own people, as is made clear on several occasions by multiple high-ranking Imperial officers. Ulfric is the main instigator of the war, regardless of whether or not we believe his cause to be just or right, and this is exactly what the Thalmor want isn't it.

the Thalmor knew so little.

I think you underestimate them.

[Shalidor's might]

He is a "dormant asset" that has become uncooperative after the Markath incident, meaning that he was an active asset of the Thalmor before that, and that he was cooperative at some point, hence he has now *become* uncooperative. They wouldn't call Ulfric an asset if he wasn't directly employed, even if he was casually useful for Thalmor's interests. That's not the vocabulary of Intelligence work.

[Colovian]

He is a "dormant asset" that has become uncooperative after the Markath incident, meaning that he was an active asset of the Thalmor before that, and that he was cooperative at some point, hence he has now *become* uncooperative. They wouldn't call Ulfric an asset if he wasn't directly employed, even if he was casually useful for Thalmor's interests. That's not the vocabulary of Intelligence work.

No not necessarily, an asset is any person that is useful to their cause, whether cooperative or uncooperative. In this case, it says Ulfric was in direct contact AND cooperative. Which means Ulfric isn't being so honest in his hate towards the Elves.

Either that, or he accepts help from the Thalmor if it would serve an advantage in weakening the hold that the Empire has on Skyrim.