In Depth Guides

[Jeff]

Firstly, I would like to say that the Wiki is a very well organize site, very well laid out, and probably the best source for TES information. The keystone to this, is it is based on facts about the game itself. I have much RESPECT for the Admins & Key Editors that keep the Wiki Policed & Clean. I do understand all of the Hard Work that it takes to keep a project as large a the UESP Wiki going.

However, something that has always bothered me, is the Articles in the In Depth Guide Section. Very little is based on facts.

A good Quote that fits here; You achieve perfection, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

When is enough... enough.

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How to Level – How to level and play efficiently.

This should actually be in the Character Information section. You have everything else there, except one of the most important aspects of the game, increasing levels.

First Time Players – Advice specifically to those playing Oblivion for the first time.

This is actually not bad information. Most of the advice is well founded, and based on facts. It may need to be cleaned up a bit though. Maybe be called First Time Players Strategy Guide. Maybe even adding in this link: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Best_ ... eled_Items

The Hardest Difficulty Strategy Guide – Some tips for hardcore playing.

This is also not that bad of an article.

Roleplaying Guide – Some tips for roleplaying.

Except for the initial page, giving advice on how to put more role into your play, and adding a little more immersion to the game. The Articles in the Character Type Roleplaying section are almost all badly written, poorly thought out, and generally impossible to play anyway.

It might not be a bad idea, to keep the Articles on Roleplaying actual in game Classes. Like advice on how to get the most roleplay out of a Nightblade Class. Usefull equipment & spells.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:Delet ... anta_Claus

Guide to Oblivion Swordplay – Everything you ever needed to know about swordfighting.

Not a bad Article. However, this is actually redundant. Most of this is covered on this page: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Combat

The Combat, Magic overview, and Sneak pages should be linked on the In Depth Guid Page, and called Combat Strategy Guild, ect, or something similar.

End Game Optimizing – A guide on how to optimize your player's equipment for maximum effectiveness towards the later parts of the game.

Another decent Article, and to the point.

Things to Do When You're Bored – Some somewhat unconventional things to do to entertain yourself.

With the exception to the 100% Completion page (which should be in the In Depth Guide Page on it's own). This Article is also just as bad as the Roleplaying page. Oblivion is a Game, that is what you do when you are bored, or don't have anything else to do. If playing the game is boring, then it is time to stop playing it.

Creating an Awesome Character – A guide to creating an Oblivion character optimized for end game content.

Besides being redundant, and anything of worth being said is in the End Game Optimizing page, this is probably one of the worst Articles on the UESP Wiki, ...ever, ...period. ...any thing that claims to be "Awesome", ...is not.

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Most of the articles in this section are a stain on the Great Site that is the UESP Wiki. One of the things that I have noticed, is that it is a dumping ground for those who actually have nothing else to add and want to have something to do. It also does not help that it is not watched over very well. This section is like the "Childrens Table" at Thanksgiving (or any other family holiday get togeather). A place for the Kids to stay out of the way of the Adults, so they can tend to more important things.

A good example that this is probably true, is that something that should be important, like In Depth Guides, is on the bottom of the Main Oblivion Page, rather than in the Game Play section, where it actually belongs.

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** NOTE: By the time I knew enough to be of any help to the Wiki, most of it was done. The few things that needed to be done, are not things that I am very good at. I know that I do not use grammar that well, and most of what I would type, would actually cause more work for other editors.

[Vesna]

Well, the only thing I can say about that is that we know. We know they aren't exactly wiki standards, and we know that nearly none of us want to tackle it.

We also know that deleting it would cause angry protestors filing up to vandalise the site. It's a vicious circle. But, as I said in a different topic, the Roleplaying characters page is already up for deletion. If people want to roleplay, they can use their imagination.

As you said, it's just a place new editors can feel wanted. Maybe we'll be ready for TES V when we clean those up.

As for "everything is done" on the wiki.... that can't be any farther from the truth. There are a lot of things going on. Tip: check the community portal.

[rpeh]

Jeff, I can't really disagree with anything you posted. I know you have your work cut out in keeping the forums in good order; it's similar on the wiki but we also have style issues to deal with. Strictly speaking, the phrases "I think" and "The best way" and their ilk should never appear on the site but in practice it's almost impossible to enforce.

In general we (by which I mean the site "staff" - the admins and patrollers) find it more convenient to have a few predefined sinks for lower-quality information where we can keep an eye on it. The alternative is that people try to post the same information on other pages that are even less relevant.

If you, or anybody else, want to revamp the guide articles, you would have my gratitude and that of many other people too. As it is, we have too much other stuff to do.

So as a summary, I'd say "We know" but also "It's better than the alternative".

[Jeff]

I started this topic, because of your (Vesna's) comment in the other topic. I did not want to hijack that one, any more than it already was. Although it bothers me, I was not going to say anything. I do understand the problems that can arise. However, since it was already brought up, I just wanted to add my two cents, which sort of turned into a rant.

As you said, it's just a place new editors can feel wanted.

That is exactly the problem... To many hands in the pot. That is the problem with any Wiki. UESP Wiki has a great Core Editing group. When is enough, ...enough. Sometimes you do have to weed the garden. You also have to take measures to keep the weeds out.

As for "everything is done" on the wiki.... that can't be any farther from the truth. There are a lot of things going on. Tip: check the community portal.

I do occasionally check the portal and to do list. Most of those are things that I do not do well. I know my place, and do not want to be one of the weeds. Sometimes, the best way to help, is to not. Maybe if more people took that approach, then you would have less weeds, and less weeding to do. Which would free up more time to do the more important things.

What I meant by "Most of it was done", is that there really is not anything new to add, information wise. There is always something to do, clean-up, formating, patroling and such.

I have found that there comes a time when you have to stop, go back and put everything in order, before adding anymore. I'm sure most everyone has seen the "Closed for Cleaning" Signs at Walmart (or other similar stores) Sort of like a "Spring Cleaning". You have to take everything out of the house, clean it up, and then put everything in it's place.