Questions regarding Hand to hand and general balance issues

n0_m3RcY · Post by **n0_m3RcY** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:13 pm

Ive been playing Oblivion since release, but i periodically start new games to try out different classes or because i have spread my character too thin and the game has become impossible.

What i am hoping to find out is if there is a point at which as you level passed a certain point, the game gets easier. I have found that refusing to level up is a vastly superior strategy than leveling at every possible opportunity, except...

The great gate. I attempted this at level 3 and as far as i can tell there is no balancing going on in this quest, using a heavily melee focused orc i was squished within seconds on entering the gate.

I reload an earlier savegame and only attempted the great game when i had hit level 15, i only managed to do it by removing all my armour and sprinting through the level. This isnt the point though.

After completing the gate, i went to the arena and initialised a battle against two minotours and a bear (with a strength rating of 181 after duplicating a sigil stone with +10 bonus gained from the great gate) and was absolutely overwhelmed within a few seconds. The thing is if i was at level 3 i would have been facing boars and a goblin and would have dispatched them without problems, and at level 12 i had faced the same linup as at level 15 but they were significantly weaker and i had little trouble.

As i level up the enemies seem to get stronger at a faster rate than i do, bearing in mind that all my skill points are being invested with melee combat in mind so i am not spreading myself thin this time round.

If i just keep levelling up will the enemies continue to increase in difficulty at this rate or do they cap? This is the second time i have played through the game and resorted to glitching or invisibility because i am simply no match for the enemies i am presented with.

And if it is the case that it simply get easier, are there any viable strategies that don't include chameleon or invisibility?

Secondly, i have for a while now wanted to create a pure Hand to Hand character, but so far my attempts have been unsucesfull. I'd like to make a character that doesnt use armour at all, instead relying on the ability to move fast, hit hard and dodge attacks. Does anyone have any tips on achieving something along these lines that doesnt completely debalance the game? Or any mods which change the game enough to make Hand to Hand a viable route?

Hardcore Heathen · Post by **Hardcore Heathen** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Sneak and Poisons kills just about anything. Triple-Damage poisons can deal upwards of 6k dmg on a sneak attack. Also, are you good at resto or illusion? Healing and paralyzation are very nice.

n0_m3RcY · Post by **n0_m3RcY** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:45 pm

here are my current stats

If not for the problem of completing the great gate at level 3, i would still be level 3 (with accumulated skills that had a backlog of level ups to lvl 14). In that case i would not be having the trouble i am now having.

If i were to make a Hand to Hand character i would follow a similar tactic, but have enough illusion to ghost walk my way through the great gate when i get there thus nullifying the need to level up at that point.

It seemed to me that the great gate level was independant of Oblivions balancing system, because many of the NPCs were the same at level 3 as they were at lvl 15 (though i assume the creatures while being the same type, had higher levels at lvl 15)

Pherdnut · Post by **Pherdnut** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:53 pm

I don't think strength past 100 does anything for melee damage, just carrying capacity.

Even at just 1 second, paralyze works great. Also for sneaking, invisibility seems to reset monster awareness of you. Even a five-second invisibility spell cast behind cover (or in plain view if your sneak is high enough) can set you up for your next sneak attack.

To set up a no-armor hand to hand character you might have to suck up using armor for a while until you can get your hands on sigil shield stones Once you get 5, you can kiss your physical damage issues goodbye. The manacles you start with can be enchanted as if they were gauntlets. Hand to hand works fine up to around 20 or so. I wouldn't level much higher.

There's really no sound reason for a melee character to avoid using armor though. Once you max heavy armor it's like not wearing any at all aside from the spell reduction.

GamingSoldier · Post by **GamingSoldier** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:09 pm

Your correct about monster strengths. They level up as you level up. And yes, around the late 20s things do seem to get really hard. They seem to level off around the mid-20s in difficulty, depending on your character.

What I see is a lack of gear and bad choices in what you do have enchanted. As someone said, any attribute over 100 does nothing (Except strength does increase carrying capacity, but not damage). You look to be wearing dwarven and lower armor (Not too familiar with heavy armor on oblivion), which needs to be greatly improved. You can get a complete set of Ebony armor for free by killing Umbra in the Vindasel ruins, just south of the Imperial City. The best way to kill her is either to lead her out and use a horse to take her back to the guards of the city, or turn the difficulty to the easiest setting. Otherwise she will kick your behind if she hits you.

If you browse the Wiki, you can find a lot of tips on leveling.

n0_m3RcY · Post by **n0_m3RcY** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:11 pm

Its for semi-rp purposes i guess, i want to create something akin to a kung-fu monk type character. This would fit nicely with touch range destr spells too. I am assuming the dodge skill (Journeymann athletics?) will create a situation whereby player skill can fill the void left by armour. Would be nice to try out anyway.

As for my current game, my sneak is low, as are all my other magic skills bar only illusion (which i trained up to 46 as i had planned to use invisibility to get through the great gate level, then got discouraged by the magika requirement of ghost walk)

I really wanted to get through the game pure melee as my last attempt at playing through it saw me achieve level 30, and Arch mage of the mages guild only to realise that there was absolutely 0 chance of completing the game from that point without constantly using invisibility, and since i had bypassed the main quest up untill then i didn't fancy it.

After reading a little bit about character creation ive come up with this plan....

Create a character with primary skills all based in and around agility strength and endurance, while having secondary skills based in strength and endurance that will be used frequently... e.g. Heavy armour as a minor skill but wear heavy armour for a while to increase Endurance on level up?

Not 100% sure i understand exactly how it works but hows that for a stab?

I can cheat and get shield sigils from the first gate to balance it out if it is too rough.

GenghisJohn · Post by **GenghisJohn** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:44 pm

You might be doing something wrong if you're level 15 and getting your butt kicked by 2 minotaurs and a bear in seconds when you're cheating. With the size of minotaurs, it's really easy to maneuver yourself to a spot where you're only fighting 1 at a time. This, IMO, makes minotaurs the easiest monster to fight when there are multiple opponents.

A character of any level fighting 3 leveled monsters will always get crushed if he or she doesn't fight smart. Try moving around so that only 1 opponent gets to you at any one time. If you have the chance, soften them up with a fireball-type spell when the gates drop.

As for a kung-fu monk ... well, Oblivion is kind of realistic when it comes to this. It's REALLY hard being a bare handed melee fighter, and it should be. I have over 2 decades of strenuous martial arts training (including Kung Fu) and full-contact competition, and I fail to think of many situations in which I'd be willing to fight a marauder with heavy armor and a claymore.

weka · Post by **weka** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:07 pm

GenghisJohn wrote:... I have over 2 decades of strenuous martial arts training (including Kung Fu) and full-contact competition, and I fail to think of many situations in which I'd be willing to fight a marauder with heavy armor and a claymore.

That conjures v. funny images!!! Do you have many Marauder's wandering your local streets, carrying claymores??!!

Hardcore Heathen · Post by **Hardcore Heathen** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:41 pm

weka, you see that episode of Reno 911 where they arrested that kid for taking a swing at his D&D friends with a real battle-axe? Yea. Don't be afraid of the gangsters, be afraid of the unstable nerds. (Does that describe all of us?)

SaintD · Post by **SaintD** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:59 pm

Hardcore Heathen wrote:weka, you see that episode of Reno 911 where they arrested that kid for taking a swing at his D&D friends with a real battle-axe? Yea. Don't be afraid of the gangsters, be afraid of the unstable nerds. (Does that describe all of us?)

I hope not. In China some kid let his buddy use his WoW (or similar) account. That kid in turn lent his "Sword of Mighty Smiting!(tm)" to some other kid. Who promptly auctioned it off. Kid #1 confronts kid #3 and demands the money at least from the auction. Kid #3 gives him the finger. Kid #1 goes to police. They can't help since the laws don't cover virtual possesions. Kid #1 goes to kid #3 house and stab him to death with a kitchen knife. Then kid #1 goes to the police and confesses. I am guessing they didn't let him off with a fine.

-D

n0_m3RcY · Post by **n0_m3RcY** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:02 pm

I think the major problem with the arena fights was the speed reduction i suffered perma adding a bunch of bonuses from enchanted armour which also had penalties.

Yes the dwarven armour is all str enchanted, i wasn't sure as to the attribute mechanics in Oblivion as untill now my oblivion experience has largely been completely independant of any outside information. The cuirass is the aegis of the apocalyps (i think), its got the same armour rating as orcish if i remember correctly plus some decent bonuses. If im not mistaken STR increases the fatigue pool? Not a terrible waste of time if that is the case.

As for the hand to hand character, while i would have to agree that attempting to assault a guy wearing a full suit of armour and wielding a claymore with my bare hands is not something i would do on a regular basis IRL, if i could shoot electricity out of my hands then i might be more open to the idea.

I understand that its hard, and i have no objections to that, but i'm hoping that the dodge skill can tip the balance a little so that if used skilfully it is possible to progress through the game using only hand to hand.

Hardcore Heathen · Post by **Hardcore Heathen** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:50 pm

Endurance increases your fatigue. What you can instead enchant your armor with is sigil stone shields (magicka and physical) or just straight up health...which isnt quite as effective but you don't have to do any planning.

weka · Post by **weka** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:41 pm

Hardcore Heathen wrote:weka, you see that episode of Reno 911 where they arrested that kid for taking a swing at his D&D friends with a real battle-axe? Yea. Don't be afraid of the gangsters, be afraid of the unstable nerds.

You're not wrong there!!

Hardcore Heathen wrote:(Does that describe all of us?)

Hell yeah!! But only in the nicest possible way!!!

GamingSoldier · Post by **GamingSoldier** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:13 pm

I would have to say if your going pure melee, the best thing you should do is enchant your armor with elemental shields. Not only does it increase elemental resistance, but it gives you a bonus to armor rating. Sigil stones are the best way to go for these, as you can get I believe 25% or so from the max ones. This way you can get a very high AC score (Lessens physical damage) and very high elemental resistance off of just a few peices of armor. Will make your game a lot easier. I have did this on my warrior character and I have over 57 AC at lvl 9 with just two peices enchanted. If you also have your alteration skill up (Or War Cry, via a stone) it will go up even higher.