Back to Morrowind

[p-sto]

I hated Skyrim's leveling system when I first started but it's grown on me. You are what you do instead of you do what you are seems more organic to me.

[dzio]

Wolfie, it's supposed to be a huge, epic RPG. It's not supposed to deliver a quick fix in ten minutes, because you're busy and don't have more time. I'm looking for a relationship here, not a quickie...

And I do ignore the compass. In fact I have a mod that ignores it for me. My point is that without the compass and the added content in journal entries some quests are (almost) impossible to complete, because the game expects you to rely on those features to some extent and you don't get enough information from the NPCs lines alone.

And where did you get this idea that I think Oblivion is "ruined"? I play it, it's fun, but it's just another RPG for me, while Morrowind is the golden standard. It doesn't mean I consider it crap, just a bit of a wasted opportunity.

[Wolfie]

Wolfie: Ignore fast travel, ignore compass, ignore that there are no attributes, ignore that weapons and armor are indestructible, ignore that guilds are made of 5 members and only one place for them, ignore that you can't makeyour spells, ignore levelling system...

I'd rather play other game than ignore half of this one.

Ignore bad directins, ignore the fact that evrey npc says the same thing, ignore the fact that it takes you till skill 50 or so before you even start notcing a hit evrye time thing, ignore the fact that "fixing wepeons" in morrowind is tediuos, not relistic, and hevey and exspeinive,

Ignore that you have to play through at least 5 times to play all guilds and thats if you dont mind doing as many guilds as you want, ignore the fact that making spells is so OP its not even funny, ignore the fact the level system in morrowind is WHACK

We can do this with ALL of the games, you still mange to ignore all the problems with morrowind becuse its "Morrowind"

Wolfie, it's supposed to be a huge, epic RPG. It's not supposed to deliver a quick fix in ten minutes, because you're busy and don't have more time. I'm looking for a relationship here, not a quickie...

It was supoused to be FUN, nothing else says it has to be anything at all.
It is huge, it has more then morrowind had, and it is an RPG.
You CAN put a lot of hours in to this game, a LOT

And I do ignore the compass. In fact I have a mod that ignores it for me. My point is that without the compass and the added content in journal entries some quests are (almost) impossible to complete, because the game expects you to rely on those features to some extent and you don't get enough information from the NPCs lines alone.

You dont get enough info form the NPC's in morrowind, half the time its WRONG, and when you DO follow it odds are your NOT there, you still haver to look
And the Jounal ALSO has info and things to do that was NOT in game as well, once again your picking and choicing becuse "its morrowind"


edit: Not trying to fight, if any one feels this I'm sorry thats NOT what I'm doing, this is just a disscusion dont take it as anything else.

[dzio]

Nope, I ignore the "problems", because I've never considered most of those things to be problems. Example - how exactly is it bad that there is so much content in the game that you need to play it more than once to see it all? And please compare the "every NPC says the same thing" with "you can only talk with every NPC about 3 things or so, they have nothing to say about anything else". Both systems are flawed and break the immersion, neither is enough of an annoyance to be worth getting all hot and bothered about.

EDIT: Wolfie, I'm not taking this as a fight, I'm just surprised at what you see as serious flaws in Morrowind and that idea you have that people who prefer Morrowind all have blinders on and see it as pure perfection.

Another edit: I'm not "picking and choosing", I really check the journal in Morrowind when I can't remember someone's name or whether the questgiver told me to turn right or left, and I only got hopelessly lost a couple of times. That's minor, compared to the difference between what you get from the conversation inOblivion and what you actually need to find the place. And I guess we just consider different things "FUN", so we should probably agree to disagree...

[Wolfie]

My point was the genrel complants of oblivon comapred to morrowind, you have not lsited all your complants there for I have to go with genreal

[Pavouk106]

Wolfie: I get it. We are simply telling about "your game" that it is not that great as you think.

Predecessors had many flaws, SKyrim has its own too. But the system running behind the picture you see has changed. It has changed so much that it can't deliver the good feeling to me. If I have to do some average, I would probably say Oblivion. It's still modern and it's still complex enough. It made playing easier than Morrowind, but we had to trade it for domething else. Skyrim is completely different game constructed on TES lore.

And I'm starting to think that there is no reason to continue debating with you, you won't ever come to some compromise, you won't ever say anything bad about Skyrim... Think about it before posting your reply. I'm (still) willing to debate about it.

[dzio]

See, here's the thing - I'm not complaining about Oblivion, I'm explaining why Morrowind is awesome. And it just so happens that many things that make it so awesome in my opinion are the exact same things that are missing from Oblivion. It's not the competition at pointing more flaws in the other person's favourite game.

[philfredobob]

Am i the only one who thinks Oblivions story was better than Morrowinds ? ...

i is so sad

[dzio]

Please, if you start discussing it in detail, put the Oblivion stuff in spoiler tags, I haven't finished the main quest yet and I like this topic too much to ignore the rest of it.

[urthdigger]

Am i the only one who thinks Oblivions story was better than Morrowinds ?

Yes. Not saying that Morrowind had some exceptionally awesome storyline (It really dragged at parts), but I could go on for hours about why Oblivion has a bad storyline for a video game.

[philfredobob]

no worries im not going to discuss it as im not in the mood
but i cant speak for the others

@ Urthdigger : if you say so , i thought it was a great story , i felt very involved throughout it , morrowind just felt bland
but , i will end this here , and say ... to each their own

[MoncarBelvani]

Morrowind is not perfect, none of them all, but I turlly 100% belive that if we could wipe our memorys some how, we would not see morrowind how we do, it has nothing to do with the "content" nothing to do with which is better, its 1000000% biased IMO, while true evreything is in liofe, this one takes the cake to the point where we are blinded to what is turly better, and no way to fix it cause which ever we play first will most likjely be the best.

Well, I can't wipe my memory but I can do the next best thing: play Morrowind after playing Oblivion and Skyrim. Oblivion was my first ES game, then I got Skyrim the day it came out and half way through playing Skyrim I bought Morrowind GOTY edition on Steam. Honestly, Morrowind is the best game I've ever played (I'm still playing it, I've just entered Mournhold). Skyrim and Oblivion are much better action-adventure games, the combat is better and the graphics are better (I should hope so, since they're both newer than Morrowind), but Morrowind is the better RPG (which, by Vivec, is what ES games are supposed to be).

Seriously, has anyone actually ever tried roleplaying in Oblivion?? It's almost impossible! You can't even do it with an Imperial, let alone one of the other races. Skyrim is a slight improvement, roleplaying a Nord is possible (not quite as special as playing as a Dunmer in Morrowind but hey, at least they tried). RPing an Imperial is quite fun too, I like the fact they've gone back to Romanesque culture, so they've earned some gold stars from me. Playing as Orc or Dunmer is enjoyable... for 10 minutes. Once you get bored of the strongholds/realising that there aren't any Dunmer resistance factions, it gets a bit rubbish.

I'd urge anyone who hasn't given Morrowind a (proper) go to try it. I had the same reservations a lot of you have about it myself a couple of years ago, but when I gave it a chance I became literally obsessed with it haha. It's as in-depth as a book, and you actually have visuals with Morrowind!

[MoncarBelvani]

Wolfie, it's supposed to be a huge, epic RPG. It's not supposed to deliver a quick fix in ten minutes, because you're busy and don't have more time. I'm looking for a relationship here, not a quickie...

This.

[Glyre]

I couldn't agree more Moncar. I've noticed that people keep saying that anyone who plays Morrowind after Oblivion and Skyrim would not enjoy it, but you and I are proof that that's not the case—with that in mind I'm sure that there are many others who would agree.

[urthdigger]

i felt very involved throughout it

Ok, I just had to comment on this because it's my biggest issue with Oblivion. You aren't involved. At all. The story is all about Martin, you're just some guy who happened to be there. Notice who they're all cheering for at Bruma. As far as the plot is concerned, you're just nameless NPC #453.

[Believe]

I would put my 2 cents worth in here again, but I see that Wolfie is just jumping on anyone who says saomething good about Morrowind, telling them that "they're blind" cos they like MOorrowind...

I know, that is maybe not your intention Wolfie, but from reading this topic, that is what it seems like.

You know what? [&@%!] it, here goes.

Yes I like Morrowind better than the other 2 games, that doesn't mean I think IV and V are [&@%!]. On the contrary, when I bought Oblivion, I shut myself away for over a week. Skyrim, didn't quite have the same affect, but then I am older now, and don't have the spare time I used to.


I don't think that when someone mentions something they don't like about Oblivion or Skyrim, jumping down their throat and saying "Well, in Morrowind there was this..." is the best way to go about it. It just gives the impression that I described above.

Plus, even though I like Morrowind the best, of course there are things I don't like about it. The journal for one.

I don't mind the instructions they give you, because if you follow them, it's actually rather easy to find places. It's more the overall layout of the journal, and that "topics" tab they give you doesnt really help, since trying to find info on a quest you got a week ago is almost impossible... As for the "copy/paste" issue... The game is 10 frickin' years old! And is HUGE! What did you expect? Of course Oblivion and Skyrim are going to be graphically better in every way. (Although Oblivion is debatable.)

Finally, when it comes to the main reason why I think I prefer Morrowind, is that it feels like an RPG. Right from the start.
Off the boat, through the tiny, tiny tutorial, and boom.

In IV, this was slightly similar, although the tutorial was a pain in the ass. I have to admit, that first view when exiting the sewers is incredible.

In Skyrim... Well, the tutorial was awesome the first time, just cos of Alduin, but got boring very quickly. And I didn't get that feeling of "This place is huge, what the hell do I do next?" Like I did in the previous games.

Other than the above, theres really only small gripes I have about all 3 of the games. In fact, Morrowind may possibly have more things I dislike that the other 2. But this doesn't stop if from being a better game, for me.

[Wolfie]

Wolfie: I get it. We are simply telling about "your game" that it is not that great as you think.

Predecessors had many flaws, SKyrim has its own too. But the system running behind the picture you see has changed. It has changed so much that it can't deliver the good feeling to me. If I have to do some average, I would probably say Oblivion. It's still modern and it's still complex enough. It made playing easier than Morrowind, but we had to trade it for domething else. Skyrim is completely different game constructed on TES lore.

And I'm starting to think that there is no reason to continue debating with you, you won't ever come to some compromise, you won't ever say anything bad about Skyrim... Think about it before posting your reply. I'm (still) willing to debate about it.

I can post bad things about Skyrim, just never been asked or felt it was needed when the thing is back to morrowind and how its better then the others


Thing Skyrim has a problem with:

NPC's diying, for real, its anoying.
When the dragons seem to come anytime you go to a new town and you feel like the code for it must of broke or something
The Guilds, they HAD potintail, they are not bad, and if you do them right they are not that short.
Smithing at first (it may be diffreint now)
Chickins
etc
it has a bunch, Skyrim is far form perfect, but its not "Worse then" it's just diffreint, they never said each game was going to be like morrowind.
They need to evolve.

As for me never comming to a compmise, I am in fact, I admit they all done things wrong but I'm saying Morrowind dose just as many if not more, a lot more then the other two and its still said the others are not good which drives me crazy, the way it also seems to drive othersw on here crazy when someoen talks bad about morrowind aparently I have to "compramise" when it comes to morrowind.

Look at this, the4re are 500 replys (not that many) telling me how good morrowind is and how its better, and I'm sopoused to comprmise but that would NEVER happen if it was about the other two. Pepole will go out of their way to get me to like it but its almost forbined to try that with the other two.


once again morrowind has a spical place in our hearts, one that I think at least should not be there cause it takes away form the other two which IMO are diffrteint for a reasson not meant to be like iii and should not be compared to iii.

You would not compare something you did 10 years ago to today I'd hope as it evloves and should no longer be the same, other wise it gets boring.



Belive:
What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...
may need to rephase that or maybe its just an odd thing no matter what

and I'm not saying your blind cause you like it, just that I question how much of the likeing the game is turlly merited by how good it is and how much of it is remebring back then.

[Believe]

Actually, the above post, was very well said Wolfie.

I apologise about saying that you were just jumping on everyone.

I happen to agree aswell, I'm not saying that Morrowind IS better than the other 2 games, I'm saying I LIKE it better.

As Wolfie said, it's kinda hard to evenly compare games made a decade apart. Even when they're in the same series.

Would anyone here compare Doom 3 with the original? I don't [&@%!] think so.

[skooma steve]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Maybe I like Morrowind the best for the same reason I like songs that are off key.

[Wolfie]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Maybe I like Morrowind the best for the same reason I like songs that are off key.

Speaking planily if its off key and the wrong notes then its NOT the song, its something else


There is no way you can "like" a off note song, there are some notes that are just bad combined, this is true for 99.9% of the population the others having something going on with their ears


Now liking a diffreint song just cause is a diffreint story, but I'm talking about liking the song thats out of tune, wrong key, wrong notes, wrong words etc.
No way to like it it wont sound "good" to the ear. not humanily possible baring some weird thing with the ears I've never heard of

With out going in to detials there are just some "steps" in music that dont fit.
An exsample, I'm playing a i iv v in C
Someone is play a C# scale....
the houoru

[p-sto]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Because for the people who prefer Morrowind, it's problems may be many but they're fairly trivial. Extending that idea Skyrim makes many trivial improvements but flops in key areas. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying Skyrim quite but I appreciate Morrowind better.

[Derp53]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Because for the people who prefer Morrowind, it's problems may be many but they're fairly trivial. Extending that idea Skyrim makes many trivial improvements but flops in key areas. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying Skyrim quite but I appreciate Morrowind better.

at this point i'm seeing this as preference, some people like morrowind better and some people like Skyrim or oblivion, either way we all have our separate preferences

[Wolfie]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Because for the people who prefer Morrowind, it's problems may be many but they're fairly trivial. Extending that idea Skyrim makes many trivial improvements but flops in key areas. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying Skyrim quite but I appreciate Morrowind better.

I fully belive if you where to list these "flops" there would be either Morrowind not having the thing that makes it better, or having something but just the opssite

For real you would be surpised how many times i see lit of pros and cons and you have

Oblivion: all npcs have the same conva
Morrowind: no where to be found about it.

Just an exsample of course

you may not but it bugs me when pepole do this so much... its one thing to have prefeance its another to list something as "bad" one then leave it out on the other

You may not do it, and I would be suprised then

[skooma steve]

What logic is it, where it has the most problems and its still the best game?

Thats like saying a song is off key, wrong notes and still the best song...

Maybe I like Morrowind the best for the same reason I like songs that are off key.

Speaking planily if its off key and the wrong notes then its NOT the song, its something else


There is no way you can "like" a off note song, there are some notes that are just bad combined, this is true for 99.9% of the population the others having something going on with their ears


Now liking a diffreint song just cause is a diffreint story, but I'm talking about liking the song thats out of tune, wrong key, wrong notes, wrong words etc.
No way to like it it wont sound "good" to the ear. not humanily possible baring some weird thing with the ears I've never heard of

With out going in to detials there are just some "steps" in music that dont fit.
An exsample, I'm playing a i iv v in C
Someone is play a C# scale....
the houoru

Clearly you've never heard of Frank Zappa.

[Wolfie]

Clearly you've never heard of Frank Zappa.

He could play the chalk board with his finger nails and it wopuld sound good thats what we call an eception to the rule