Back to Morrowind

[Believe]

It's probably more so because the people who LOVE Morrowind, played it before Oblivion and Skyrim.

The nostalgia effect of Morrowind is unbelievably huge. 10 time bigger than Oblivion.

That, and the fact that it is harder, in most ways, probably make alot of people like it more.

I myself enjoy Morrowind more than either Oblivion or Skyrim, yet Morrowind is the only one I havn't actually finished.

@Wolfie:

Only one thing you said really stood out to me, and it was terribly wrong.

NOBODY LIKES CLIFFRACERS. If you ask any one of us who love MOrrowind more than the other games, what is the most annoying/hated creature in any of those games, the answer will 95% be "Cliffracers". Probably followed by "Goblins".

NOBODY LIKES CLIFFRACERS.

[Stormborn]

Ahhh, the smell of elitism. Sure, Bethesda could put together a game for "hardcore" players that would please 12 people on the planet. And then they'd go bankrupt. Or, they could market a game that appeals to the "masses". And make a profit, which allows them to continue making games.

Look, I'm not apologizing for Bethesda. Skyrim is an incredibly buggy and poorly stitched-together game. As were Oblivion and Morrowind. The real shame here isn't that Bethesda has gone deeper into the mainstream, it's that Bethesda seems like it can't be bothered to build more robust games.

You sir have a voice of reason, actually that was my initial reaction, I never liked Morrowind very much and I prefered DA origins over oblivion, Morrowind imo is gray, drab, and ugly and filled with cliffracers

I agree with Evil-i and Derp53. I found that Oblivion was fun but grew dull quickly and the levelling was terrible, Morrowind was brown. Without FO3 I wouldn't have picked up Skyrim at all. Strangely, Skyrim has increased my interest in both Oblivion and Morrowind.

[urthdigger]

I will say this. While I consider Morrowind as having better replay value, I did love Oblivion and Skyrim more from my initial playthrough. The problem I have with both Oblivion and Skyrim is simply that it's difficult to really play differently than you did before. They just don't seem to reward you as much for exploration.

[Mattbott]

i'm not sure how anyone can talk about Skyrims replayability after 10 months, when morrowind and oblivion had 5? 7? years out there before they were relieved by a sequel

in the first year i played the TES games until i puked, then i had a break, and then came back etc, a process where each stage took a year or two

really we're looking at vanilla Skyrim, with a smallish add on similar to KOTN was with Oblivion, we probably have nearly half the total content yet to see, and thats for those of us who cant avail of the mods which will be developed over the next while

@urthdigger, imo the rewards for exploring are different. Morrowind was 'brown', so the game was broken up by finding hollow tree stumps, notes on dead bodies, forgotten tombs etc. Oblivion and Skyrim give different rewards for exploration which are more cinematic and sensual (sense orientated). But the detail is still there, it's just more about looking at the aurora and salmon leaping up stream or jumping in your seat when a clap of thunder shatters the sky as you sneak up on a bandit sentry, and less about the implied depth we get from reading lore books.

different games, different strengths

some people prefer the more serious (?) game style, and would rate the look and accessibility of Ob and Sk as a dumbing down of the game or loss of content - this is not fair imo, its a taste issue, not quality issue

[Glyre]

Excellent point Mattbott—I definitely agree that this is all a matter of taste, and we all know that those can't be debated . I happen to prefer Morrowind, though I first played it after Oblivion and Skyrim. The other games have similar merit, and from a graphical or maybe even technical standpoint are superior, but for me it's the atmosphere and culture of Morrowind, along with the fact that graphics aren't that important to me, that puts it on the top of my list. That being said I still really enjoy Oblivion and Skyrim.

[Belthazor]

some people prefer the more serious (?) game style, and would rate the look and accessibility of Ob and Sk as a dumbing down of the game or loss of content - this is not fair imo, its a taste issue, not quality issue

Morrowind - You get directions (not always good ones, I admit) and have to search for locations/people/items.
Skyrim - You get a marker on the map and on the target, linear dungeons to make sure you don't get lost, and a spell that shows you the way to your objective (just in case you are actually able to get lost in a tunnel).

How is that not dumbing down?

[Mattbott]

Morrowind - well i hated having to wade through a dozen notes on paper scraps with ashlander names and destinations on it, which is pretty much what i did when playing morrowind. It is my number one memory of the gameplay and i know it put several otherwise rpg friendly gamers i know, completely off the game. Beth fixed that due to overwhelming player demand and they havent looked back for good reason

Skyrim - if you un select the mission in the skyrim journal , the arrows do not appear so you can go about your business without a HUD butler. The point you raise about linear map design is something i would agree with , but i dont miss the time spent tracing my steps back to the surface and come to think of it in Mw i would have recalled/interventioned as soon as i got to the boss loot, so skyrim allows basically the same experience even though they did away teleport (which is another thing i am in two minds about, but it's a conscious decision they went with as part of the overall game design)

[soda popinski]

During the summer before skyrim came out I got a copy of morrowind. I played it probably between 10-20 hours. I could understand why people liked the game, but it was so old at that point that it wasn't enjoyable enough for me to continue with it.

My biggest gripe with that game is that here I am, some big mother-f'er smashing another guys face in with an ax, and I see this ax hit the guy right in the dome over and over, and yet i'm supposed to believe that it isn't doing any damage?

The journal was also attrocious

Anyways, my theory on morrowind is that if you played it when it was new, you'd be much more likely to still enjoy playing it today. Trying it out when its a 10 year old game means you probably wouldn't like it nearly as much

[p-sto]

My biggest gripe with that game is that here I am, some big mother-f'er smashing another guys face in with an ax, and I see this ax hit the guy right in the dome over and over, and yet i'm supposed to believe that it isn't doing any damage?

This is actually one of the features I actually miss from Morrowind, though it could have been refined. Particularly if you're fighting an armored enemy it's realistic to believe that some strikes will bounce off their armor harmlessly but one or two good strikes will take them down. I really hate how in so many games (mostly RPG and RTS off the top of my head) a target usually withstands a ridiculous number of hits before they die.

[philfredobob]

I Never liked morrowind , i only played Oblivion because it looked good in Photos of it that i had seen , and i am very , very glad i played it , i absolutely Loved Oblivion , and it will always be my favourite .

Skyrim is not as good as Oblivion in certain areas such as Quests , Factions , Story , Colour , and Music (Oblivion had a wonderfull soundtrack )
but it was better in Dungeons , Melee Combat , and Voice Acting

This is actually one of the features I actually miss from Morrowind, though it could have been refined. Particularly if you're fighting an armored enemy it's realistic to believe that some strikes will bounce off their armor harmlessly but one or two good strikes will take them down. I really hate how in so many games (mostly RPG and RTS off the top of my head) a target usually withstands a ridiculous number of hits before they die.

Yeah , but a Slug thats lying on the floor shouldnt have to be struck 40 times before finally being killed
and when someone hits you when you wear armour , it doesnt block out all damage , an Arm can be broken while holding a shield from a strong enough strike , and you can get concussions from a tough strike to an Armoured head .. so its not perfectly realistic

[p-sto]

Which is why landing a hit was based on a combination of the skill of the person striking and the skill of the person being hit. In unarmed fighting there are ways to take a hit to mitigate damage so I'm not sure why this wouldn't hold true for fighting with weapons and armor. I admitted the system was imperfect, I just wish they refined it instead of scrapping it for the typical linear damage model.

[urthdigger]

@urthdigger, imo the rewards for exploring are different. Morrowind was 'brown', so the game was broken up by finding hollow tree stumps, notes on dead bodies, forgotten tombs etc. Oblivion and Skyrim give different rewards for exploration which are more cinematic and sensual (sense orientated). But the detail is still there, it's just more about looking at the aurora and salmon leaping up stream or jumping in your seat when a clap of thunder shatters the sky as you sneak up on a bandit sentry, and less about the implied depth we get from reading lore books.

The problem with that is that all those things you listed as benefits for Skyrim are not benefits for exploring. I can see the sky and hear the thunder anywhere, and any stream is about the same as another. There's just no real reason or benefit to go "off the rails" as it were and head to areas besides when a quest sends you there. All you generally find are the same enemies you'll find anywhere else, the same randomly generated loot... basically, there's no real drive to play the game any differently than you did previously.

Another issue that I just recalled is lycanthropy and vampirism. In Morrowind contracting either of these was kind of a big deal and changed the way you played the game. Vampirism blocked off silt striders and boats, and forced you to find shelter when the sun came up. My previous comments on having "base camps" really came into play whenever I was a vampire. Lycanthropy was a bit easier to deal with, since I could still talk to NPCs during the day, but you had to make sure to be somewhere secluded at sunrise or sunset. If I had a nickel for every time I neglected to notice how long that boat trip would take and gave the sailor a nasty surprise upon arrival... hehe. In addition, the forced change made using werewolf form more strategic. In Skyrim, however, neither really forces you to change your playstyle.

The issue here isn't which game looks better, or has the better controls, since Skyrim definitely wins on both accounts. But having played through Skyrim once before, is there really any incentive to play it again? In my opinion, it just feels like the same old game.

[dzio]

Well, for me Morrowind IS the Holy Grail of gaming - it's a game I've played for hundreds of hours without seeing all it has to offer and without getting bored with it. Years of great entertainment on a single CD - genius. It's far from perfect, but most of the flaws are no more than minor annoyances for me, while the good parts are pure awesomeness.

And the part I love the most, in fact the reason why I call it the best game I've ever played, is that it doesn't treat me like a spoiled child with an attention span of a mosquito with ADD, who won't listen to a thing you say and throw a screaming fit if she doesn't get the candy NOW. It requires me to think, to pay attention to what's going on and to work for the results. Yes, the cliff racers are a pain, but they also force me to plan ahead and prepare for them every time I venture into the Ashlands (and other racer-infested areas), and when I reach my destination despite being attacked 50 times, I actually feel like I've accomplished something. And yes, the limited possibility of fast travel makes me spend a lot of time walking around, but no one forces me to take the same route every time - I try to explore some new area every time I need to run around a lot, even if it takes me by a longer route. Yes, I don't have a handy map marker to point me to a quest location, but that only enhances the immersion, because there are no map markers in the real world...

I could counter most of the flaws in Morrowind like this, because with the right attitude most of them are not flaws at all. And complaining about dated graphics and limited number of voice actors is just stupid. It's like complaining that CDs don't fit into your old walkman. This game did great things with the technology that's a decade old now (it's like 300 in computer-years). The next TES games had much more to work with, in terms of what average PC was/is capable of, and what did they use it for? Making it prettier, mostly. I don't want my games pretty. I want them smart, challenging and original. And that is where Morrowind wins.

[Pavouk106]

Believe and Belthazor have the point.

And believe me that I can talk about those games replayability. Even if Skyrim is only 10 months out. I have collected trophies in almost no time, created almost godlike character, tried to replay with totally different character and got bored... The second character was good, better than the first - it was really fragile mage, but so powerful. And even with that, I started Oblivion and I enjoy it more (mage using only Absorb health to attack ). And I'm playing Morrowind along on my netbook (it's portable enough to play the game anytime I want/can).

Who played Oblivion or Skyrim first will never play Morrowind voluntarily for longer period of time.

I would be really happy if next TES game could be more like Oblivion (or even more like Morroind) in the technical depth. I'd like to see attributes, some spells, more confusing quest system - Skyrim is really (for) dumb in this, ... I'd like to play harder game. Not in terms of difficulty settings. I just think that mainstream is going the bad way.

While I wrote this dzio said my thought much better than me

[Wolfie]

Well, for me Morrowind IS the Holy Grail of gaming - it's a game I've played for hundreds of hours without seeing all it has to offer and without getting bored with it. Years of great entertainment on a single CD - genius. It's far from perfect, but most of the flaws are no more than minor annoyances for me, while the good parts are pure awesomeness.

And the part I love the most, in fact the reason why I call it the best game I've ever played, is that it doesn't treat me like a spoiled child with an attention span of a mosquito with ADD, who won't listen to a thing you say and throw a screaming fit if she doesn't get the candy NOW. It requires me to think, to pay attention to what's going on and to work for the results. Yes, the cliff racers are a pain, but they also force me to plan ahead and prepare for them every time I venture into the Ashlands (and other racer-infested areas), and when I reach my destination despite being attacked 50 times, I actually feel like I've accomplished something. And yes, the limited possibility of fast travel makes me spend a lot of time walking around, but no one forces me to take the same route every time - I try to explore some new area every time I need to run around a lot, even if it takes me by a longer route. Yes, I don't have a handy map marker to point me to a quest location, but that only enhances the immersion, because there are no map markers in the real world...

I could counter most of the flaws in Morrowind like this, because with the right attitude most of them are not flaws at all. And complaining about dated graphics and limited number of voice actors is just stupid. It's like complaining that CDs don't fit into your old walkman. This game did great things with the technology that's a decade old now (it's like 300 in computer-years). The next TES games had much more to work with, in terms of what average PC was/is capable of, and what did they use it for? Making it prettier, mostly. I don't want my games pretty. I want them smart, challenging and original. And that is where Morrowind wins.

While I understand while you say this, the same can be said about oblivion, it has a LOT to see, you can do that, it dose not FORCE you to do this like morrowind did for the most part, but it gives you the option now to either go diffreint routes each time or just get there like that. so whats to hate?


I really feel pepole look at morrowind and say "this was good" and they dont relize the next games added to that ever BETTER

dont tell me morrowind had more to look for it, was FAR more copy and past, thats a fact, all the roads where 100% the same, they where diffreint in the regions, but you always see the same tree lay out and what not, maybe that dont bug you, but many pepole it dose in oblivion but not morrowind, again picking and choceing

[Pavouk106]

I really feel pepole look at morrowind and say "this was good" and they dont relize the next games added to that ever BETTER

Next games were (are) even BETTER, but not in all aspects. Bethesda made something better, but meantime they made something worse. Difference between Morrowind and Oblivion is not as big as between Oblivion and Skyrim.

[Wolfie]

I disagree with this, for the most part the things I head are UNTRUE

Like they like to walk around and find new ways, you can do that in the next two just as much, it just also lets those who dont have the time get done quick.
They in no way force you to use fast travle and you can still do what you did in III, but pepole still insist fast travle ruined the game and that you cant do what you did in morrowind when you can

[dzio]

Yes, but in Oblivion I have to actively ignore all the helpfull pushes in the right direction... It's not the fast travel I have problems with, it's the way the game leads you by the hand, up to and including making it nearly impossible to find stuff without the damn compass thing (the directions for several quests I got from the NPCs were so vague that without the marker and the "helpfull" journal entry, which included stuff they never said and suggestions on what I should do next, I'd have serious problems finding it).

I never said I hated Oblivion, in fact I rather enjoyed it, but most of the changes made in TES4 make me think that the good folk at Beth thought selling more copies was more important than moving from "awesome" to "mind-blowing". Oblivion didn't just add to Morrowind, it took away some things too, all in the name of greater accessibility. For me it's a great example of what happens when you try to create something that will fit everyone - you get something that fits a small amount of people in the middle like a glove, and the rest get "too something" or "not something enough". You may disagree with me, but I think that most "improvements" made in TES4 were actually changes for the worse.

And I completely disagree with the "copy&paste" thing. In Morrowind I can see clearly that every single rock and bush was put in its place by hand by someone who knew what they were doing. Yes, they had a limited number of elements to work with, but I think the results are remarkable and it doesn't bug me at all that it's the same dozen trees planted all over the island. It didn't bother me in Cyrodiil either. I honestly don't give a damn about the graphics being somewhat limited, that's just the pretty (or not) wrapping paper. I want what's inside.

[Wolfie]

And I completely disagree with the "copy&paste" thing. In Morrowind I can see clearly that every single rock and bush was put in its place by hand by someone who knew what they were doing. Yes, they had a limited number of elements to work with, but I think the results are remarkable and it doesn't bug me at all that it's the same dozen trees planted all over the island. It didn't bother me in Cyrodiil either. I honestly don't give a damn about the graphics being somewhat limited, that's just the pretty (or not) wrapping paper. I want what's inside.

You do know how they set the game world up right? ALL of them used "models" that where put together, there is no "looks like" it WAS copyed and pasted, thats not a bad thing in of it self, but those claiming problems with oblivon ingore it in morrowind

its 100% copy and past, so was almost all the inteoirs and exteoirs, it safes a load of time, dont blame them for doing it, but they did

look it up, way easyir to notice it in houses becuse they are so much smallar but go in to the CS and you can see all the exact copys they have in game, baring monsters and some events, and MAYBE something extra like an item in a stump it was not in the others.

[Pavouk106]

My reply has not come through...

Wolfie: I haven't aever used fast travel in Oblivion. I use propylons in Morrowind and MG teleport if I'm MG member. I used it in Skyrim just to get the last trophy.

I'm writing here that Skyrim is more arcade than RPG in comparison with Oblivion and Morrowind. Skyrim is simpler than its predecessors, nobody will convince me (or persuade, to speak the "game language") about the contrary.

[p-sto]

I likely would have gotten bored of Skyrim by now if not for the power of imagination. Lackluster story lines and npcs with no personality do open the door for you to come up with side stories for why your character is doing what they're doing and let you think about how characters you interact with should be.

[dzio]

You know, I could probably count the instances of "wow, that looks exactly like that other hill I've just passed five minutes ago" in Morrowind on the fingers of a single hand (the one obvious exception being the building blocks of many interiors, especially the caves). I do know that they used blocks, but the way they are connected and the finishing touches of added plants, small rocks and stuff make the world look real (unless you go out of your way to find every single flaw in the game, but I'm not a level 95 Wet Blanket so I don't do that). I got the same impression in Oblivion, for the record. It's just that the blocks were less interesting and that my character had a cave magnet in her head and she knew about every dungeon in a half mile radius just by standing there.

[Wolfie]

You know, I could probably count the instances of "wow, that looks exactly like that other hill I've just passed five minutes ago" in Morrowind on the fingers of a single hand (the one obvious exception being the building blocks of many interiors, especially the caves). I do know that they used blocks, but the way they are connected and the finishing touches of added plants, small rocks and stuff make the world look real (unless you go out of your way to find every single flaw in the game, but I'm not a level 95 Wet Blanket so I don't do that). I got the same impression in Oblivion, for the record. It's just that the blocks were less interesting and that my character had a cave magnet in her head and she knew about every dungeon in a half mile radius just by standing there.

so you dont care about how things look but you care that they try to help those who dont have hours to spend to find something?

Cant you just ignore the compass? very easy to do.
Seems to me you are looking for evrey flaw when you get to "It has a comppas game is ruined!!!!!"
just ignore the compass.

[Dean]

I honestly thought all three games were interesting in their own right.

-Morrowind was very adventurous, dark, and had the best story.

-Oblivion was more magical, had smooth combat, and was actually quite humorous at parts.

-Skyrim had a perk system that I actually enjoy more then stats, dragons that actually fly around, felt very barbarian which was a nice change, and looked absolutely fantastic which can help with immersion.

I like the fact that they are all different, means I can play them as different games if I get bored of one.

[Pavouk106]

Wolfie: Ignore fast travel, ignore compass, ignore that there are no attributes, ignore that weapons and armor are indestructible, ignore that guilds are made of 5 members and only one place for them, ignore that you can't makeyour spells, ignore levelling system...

I'd rather play other game than ignore half of this one.