The blades WTF

[Pieter the mage]

I finished Every main and guild quest in skyrim then went to the blades and they wanted me to kill paarthurnax.Then they shuned me if i didnt. I sadly did it to continue and saved now theirs no chance for me to return. But when i went there they gave me a lame quest to recruit members and i thought WTF i killed one of best characters in the game for nothing. By the way i think they say way to much BS Paarthurnax helped the dragonborn become what he was to defeat Alduin and what they say is like okay he helped you defeat the best dragon evah but now you must kill him beacuse he was once bad. Like i said im regreting the fact that i did it.

[Br3admax]

So many Blade hater threads, so little time. But I've lost faith in them as well.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

You're angry and perplexed. This is good. It's a sign of depth in story writing. Just when you think you know who the good guys or bad guys are. And in a way they have a point. He did slaughter thousands of innocent Nords at one point in the distant past. It's up to you to decide if he deserves to die. You realize that in this game you can choose to forgo any and all quests at your own discretion.

[Pieter the mage]

You're angry and perplexed. This is good. It's a sign of depth in story writing. Just when you think you know who the good guys or bad guys are. And in a way they have a point. He did slaughter thousands of innocent Nords at one point in the distant past. It's up to you to decide if he deserves to die. You realize that in this game you can choose to forgo any and all quests at your own discretion.

yeah your right and i can accept your opinion beacuse you always seem so darn smart in this forum.

[Ulysses]

Yeah I like a game that strays into morally grey areas. Perhaps if we had more direct evidence of Paarthurnax's past crimes we'd feel differently. Unfortunately the game presents us with black and white options, so it only partially wins my praise there.

[Br3admax]

Paarthurnax said he did those things, he also said he has overcome his nature.

[Wolfie]

Paarthurnax said he did those things, he also said he has overcome his nature.

no he did not he says he must always fight it.

[Ulysses]

Paarthurnax said he did those things, he also said he has overcome his nature.

Sorry by direct evidence I meant visible gut wrenching scenes of mass-murder. We know he DID those things, but to see physical proof of it can have a more damning effect than words ever will.

[Wolfie]

Which is a pity, it would of been SO awsome to know what he did, see it and then pick to side with him or not, now you have pepole who really think "he did not do any of that"
"it was not THAT bad" etc

[Alnevar Odai]

Paarthurnax said he did those things, he also said he has overcome his nature.

Sorry by direct evidence I meant visible gut wrenching scenes of mass-murder. We know he DID those things, but to see physical proof of it can have a more damning effect than words ever will.

"DID", that is the keyword here... a word like DID only exists in mortal tongue. Temporary, finite... two things paarthurnax isnt. So he IS a slaughterer, but at the moment in mortal minds he is fine. In my opinion, he was waiting for the ideal time to overthrow Alduin and become the leader. When you defeat Alduin that scares all dragons... but it is easier to outlast a mortal, he oly would need to be patient a little bit longer.

But that was my own self justification to killing the coolest character in the main quest.

[merry]

Hi everyone!

I played several characters through the main quest and I never once killed Paarthurnax and I never will. Why? Here's why:
1. Delphine. I hate her. She is even worse than Nazeem to me ^^
2. I personally think he has served out his time. He sat upon that mountain top for centuries only to be there at the right time and to protect the world. While that ofc does not make his "crimes" any better, to me it shows a true change of heart.
3. On the way up to High Hrothgar you can read that Kynareth herself turned to Paarthurnax, and asked him to teach men the Thu'um to which she had given them the ability. To me that means, she saw that he was truly questioning in his heart what Alduin and he were doing and she saw him worthy of her trust. So... I'm not the one to argue with a goddes about trusting someone ^^
4. In the book about the whereabouts of the dragons in Sky Haven Temple the old Grandmaster wrote, that he knew very well were Paarthurnax was and he advised against killing him at the time, because he didn't want to anger the Greybeards. So... did the rest of the Blades stop talking to him too, because he didn't kill the dragon even though he knew where hew was? And they don't care about me angering the Greybeards...
5. They want Paarthurnax dead because they swore to kill all dragons or something? Alright, they can just go up there and kill him themselves. They can't? Too bad.
6. Esbern and Delphine want Paarthurnax dead because of an oath they swore, Esbern said. An oath that refers to things that happened several thousand years ago. They didn't witness anything Paarthurnax did. But I met some people in Sovngarde that did witness it, they were there, they had suffered under his rule but still they became allies and he even calls them friends. They did not tell me to kill him and they'd have been the only ones with the right to do so, if they had wanted it (in my opinion).

So.. no, I'm not killing Paarthurnax. If he goes nuts and tries to do an Alduin I can still kill him then. If I'm not around anymore the divines will just find someone else who does, just like with Alduin.

[Wolfie]

your perfectly alwwoed to disagree with me but wanted you to know somethings and think about this as some of your points are base on things that are not true

(like the Gods can stop path if he gose bad)

1. Delphine. I hate her. She is even worse than Nazeem to me ^^
2. I personally think he has served out his time. He sat upon that mountain top for centuries only to be there at the right time and to protect the world. While that ofc does not make his "crimes" any better, to me it shows a true change of heart.
3. On the way up to High Hrothgar you can read that Kynareth herself turned to Paarthurnax, and asked him to teach men the Thu'um to which she had given them the ability. To me that means, she saw that he was truly questioning in his heart what Alduin and he were doing and she saw him worthy of her trust. So... I'm not the one to argue with a goddes about trusting someone ^^
4. In the book about the whereabouts of the dragons in Sky Haven Temple the old Grandmaster wrote, that he knew very well were Paarthurnax was and he advised against killing him at the time, because he didn't want to anger the Greybeards. So... did the rest of the Blades stop talking to him too, because he didn't kill the dragon even though he knew where hew was? And they don't care about me angering the Greybeards...
5. They want Paarthurnax dead because they swore to kill all dragons or something? Alright, they can just go up there and kill him themselves. They can't? Too bad.
6. Esbern and Delphine want Paarthurnax dead because of an oath they swore, Esbern said. An oath that refers to things that happened several thousand years ago. They didn't witness anything Paarthurnax did. But I met some people in Sovngarde that did witness it, they were there, they had suffered under his rule but still they became allies and he even calls them friends. They did not tell me to kill him and they'd have been the only ones with the right to do so, if they had wanted it (in my opinion).

#1 yep, that sums it up
#2 Was he? or was it a ploy to become "top dog"? Your the last dragon born, once you die that’s it. he waited up there that long for something so we know he is capable of a plan like that
#3 she also trusted Lokie and was TRICKED in to helping make the world.... soooo she trust people, dont mean she is right. the gods have a full history of trusting and being wrong, even with mortals.
#4

The legendary lieutenant of Alduin in the Dragon War. He is now known to lair on the Throat of the World under the protection of the Greybeards of High Hrothgar. Master Araidh continues the established policy of avoiding direct confrontation with the Greybeards while waiting for an opportunity to exact justice upon him.

he wanted him dead but wanted to wait in till he could kill him, which your guy could of, so they did the same thing he did.
#5 because dragons are dragons they will fall in to darkness and kill even Patty admits it and says you CANT trust him.
#6 where do you see them being Allies\freinds? they went behind his back to defeat aduin, in fact if they did what Pathy said Aduin would never of been locked up, even then just because they "teamed up" dose not mean they forgave him, they had bigger fish to fry (Aduin) was that happen they went back to wanting him dead.

Also do they want justice? they are in a GREAT place, they are happy, hell they most likely forgot about it, its not like their life’s where even a FACTIONG of how long they been around
Even then just because someone wips out everyone he "wronged" that means no one else can punish him?

So.. no, I'm not killing Paarthurnax. If he goes nuts and tries to do an Alduin I can still kill him then. If I'm not around anymore the divines will just find someone else who does, just like with Alduin.

Except no they cant, the scrolls which are more powerful then the Gods say you are the LAST, the Gods cant send another dragon born and there is no other way to stop them for ever that we know of

[Br3admax]

Actually, Kyne did accept the sacrifice, Kynarath was made later. Paarthurnax says you can trust him, the Blades just don't know that, and how do you know what the scrolls say, it only A) Lets us see the past, and B) Gives us a bow, the future isn't fixed until it happens, the scrolls can change.

[Wolfie]

Actually, Kyne did accept the sacrifice, Kynarath was made later. Paarthurnax says you can trust him, the Blades just don't know that, and how do you know what the scrolls say, it only A) Lets us see the past, and B) Gives us a bow, the future isn't fixed until it happens, the scrolls can change.

Care top show me where he says you can trust him? excat qoute cause it was you CANT, and that he could turn at any time.
#2 http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kynareth

she is the first to agree to Lorkhan's divine plan to create the mortal plane, and provides the space in the void for its creation

# 3 The scrolls can change but should we just assumed they will?
has a scroll that has come to passed chnage? as in this one says its the last dragonborn
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elder_Scrolls

Any person gifted with prescient powers is able to interpret the contents of the Elder Scrolls with practice[5]. The information revealed about the future is never absolute [6]. Once an event foretold within the Scrolls is carried out in the world it becomes fixed within them

the event happen, seems it cant chnage, I'll admit I dont know to much about the scrolls them self then again who dose?

[Br3admax]

Ask him, he says it is wise to not trust a dovah, domination is their nature, you fell it yourself, I have overcome my nature, I can be trusted. We don't know exactly what the scrolls say, we just here one prophecy. And Kyne =/= Kynarath, they are different aspects of a dead/alive planet's remains. Kyne excepted it, Imperial made Kynarath was tricked, you see the gods are controlled by the worshippers, not the other way around.

[Wolfie]

Ask him, he says it is wise to not trust a dovah, domination is their nature, you fell it yourself, I have overcome my nature, I can be trusted. We don't know exactly what the scrolls say, we just here one prophecy. And Kyne =/= Kynarath, they are different aspects of a dead/alive planet's remains. Kyne excepted it, Imperial made Kynarath was tricked, you see the gods are controlled by the worshippers, not the other way around.

I said full qoute you forgot this

We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature

he may be trusted now, thats if we truswt his word, but he admits he is tempted, and thats its in his nature.
and says its wise to not trust dragons and there for him.


as for "not knowing what it says" check the game market as well as evreything else they mettion last dragonborn over and over and
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Book_ ... Dragonborn

I leave you with what is known as "The Prophecy of the Dragonborn". It often said to originate in an Elder Scroll, although it is sometimes also attributed to the ancient Akaviri. Many have attempted to decipher it, and many have also believed that its omens had been fulfilled and that the advent of the "Last Dragonborn" was at hand. I make no claims as an interpreter of prophecy, but it does suggest that the true significance of Akatosh's gift to mortalkind has yet to be fully understood.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

the world eater woke and was stoped

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne#Kyne

Kyne is the Nordic goddess of the Storm, widow of Shor, Warrior-Wife, and a favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men (as well as beasts). Nords believe her daughters taught the first of them how to use the Thu'um, or Storm Voice, though Paarthurnax claims credit for doing so. Kyne and Kynareth are considered one and the same.

The pepole all have the "same Gods" diffreint names, one for akatosh etc and one for her, they are the same person

Many versions of Anu and Padomay, the two primal forces. These two entities are recognized under various names in most faiths.

[Br3admax]

That same prophecy says at the end of time, we may be the Last Dragonborn, but has time ended, or known time. The Last Dragonborn, that can be known at this point. There's not a day where I don't want to hit somebody for no reason , am I going to, it's in my nature? No. And Alduin was not asleep, if anything we only put him to sleep for the true ending. He will be back, and he won't be stopped, that time.

[Wolfie]

That same prophecy says at the end of time, we may be the Last Dragonborn, but has time ended, or known time. The Last Dragonborn, that can be known at this point. There's not a day where I don't want to hit somebody for no reason , am I going to, it's in my nature? No. And Alduin was not asleep, if anything we only put him to sleep for the true ending. He will be back, and he won't be stopped, that time.

#1 it never says the endtimes.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

where do you see that?

and the "sleep" is not a "real" sleep anymore then the tribunal "fall"
the idea was the word eater was gone form the world andf "sleep" as in not here. nothign says end times, and they markted the game as the last phrphicy (see martins words at the end of oblivion


But path says it IS in his nature, HE even says it, HE even says not wise to trust dragons.... sooo why trust him?

[merry]

Paarthurnax also says, that _he_ can be trusted. He knows it, but he understands that the Blades can't know ofc. Delphine says I have to kill him, because she thinks he is going to turn coat again before the end and help Alduin. (Esbern says something different, mind you) I say no, he won't. I trust him on that at least.

And... tempted? Yes, you bet. Just as much as the Dovahkin is being tempted all the time. Just as much as everyone is being tempted. A human giving in to temptation can wreak havoc upon the world. A dragon giving in can do that too. Do we kill everybody, because they are being tempted and potentially dangerous? I hope not. Dovahkin would have to kill him/herself first then.

In one possible answer Paarthurnax says that Alduin tried to make Akatosh's rightful reign into his own, he tried to take Akatosh's place as the ruler of the dragons and the world. I don't know about the "all gods are the same Akatosh is Auriel, Kyne is Kynareth" and so on. In Dawnguard there is a statue of Auriel and he is not a dragon. Paarthurnax refers to Akatosh as 'Bormahu' -earthbone. If he is and he was "trapped" on Nirn, how can he be the same person that is in Aetherius known as Auriel? I have no really conclusive answer to that, but I think that there's more to it than just "they are the same being".

And what we see in Dawnguard too is that some prophecies can be made out of the Scrolls by someone. They come true only because they are enacted.
And the blades _can_ kill Paarthurnax. They killed every freaking dragon they encountered and it took Alduins power to bring them back. Alduin is gone, so noone is going to bring Paarthurnax back if they kill him, even if they can't absorb is soul.
So _I_ think all they do is try and turn me and the Greybeards against each other so they have better control over me and I have nowhere else to turn for guidance. I don't trust the Blades and their oaths of loyalty. We know where that ended with the Reman-line. I'd much rather trust the Greybeards who have nothing to gain from a treachery, who never sought power beyond sitting on the mountain and mastering the Voice, whoi despite their great power never so much as made a single move to take over rulership over anything. Who say they will give me their loyalty up to a certain point (who are even willing to follow my lead despite it being against their own judgement!) but don't pretend to see me as kind of a god and then turn on me, because I don't follow their orders.

Oh and one small thing that gave me another incentive: the little girl in Rorikstead says she dreamed about 'good' dragon. Ofc it might be nothing, just childish dreams, but it might just be that she has some kind of Seer-power or was even granted that dream by one of the Gods, to point her towards something.

And about the Master Araid-thing. I know he wanted him dead. The Blades would want Akatosh dead if they could find him, because hes a dragon >.< (that was a joke ofc, nothing ingame to support this claim^^). But my point is, they were willing to let him live until a chance to slay him arose. Nowhere in that book does it say, they turn on everyone that refuses to slay a dragon on the spot, no matter the cost. But Esbern and Delphine say they won't talk to me until I have slayn Paarthurnax. Why suddenly? It could wait a long time, why do I have to exact their sentence at once or they turn against me? I'm not their executioner, I swore no oath to kill dragons. They did. Heck, if I'd had a choice I wouldn't even want to talk to Delphine in the first place. The only thing I don't like is the fact that I have to 'steal' all the books in Sky Haven Temple from that point on. A temple they couldn't even have accessed if I hadn't been there.


edit: oh and.. about the ability to 'trick' gods, yes it is possible. So let me change my choice of words and just say I trust Kynareth's judgement (on the tablets it says Kynareth, not Kyne) more than Delphine's ;D

edit2 ^^: thanks for the lively reception here, I really like the discussion.

[honneyboy]

Paarthurnax said he did those things, he also said he has overcome his nature.

Sorry by direct evidence I meant visible gut wrenching scenes of mass-murder. We know he DID those things, but to see physical proof of it can have a more damning effect than words ever will.

"DID", that is the keyword here... a word like DID only exists in mortal tongue. Temporary, finite... two things paarthurnax isnt. So he IS a slaughterer, but at the moment in mortal minds he is fine. In my opinion, he was waiting for the ideal time to overthrow Alduin and become the leader. When you defeat Alduin that scares all dragons... but it is easier to outlast a mortal, he oly would need to be patient a little bit longer.

But that was my own self justification to killing the coolest character in the main quest.

Parthurnax is a master at doing the hardest thing in the world.

Nothing.

He even gives the world, via you, the weapon that can be used to kill any dragon by someone with enough training or is dragonborn. One that would be easy enough for you to write down for others to know.

In all of known history all he has ever done is think, and avoid the temptation of getting involved in moral affairs.

If that's a reason to kill him, you should set your sites on the stones of his mountain next.

[Wolfie]

Paarthurnax also says, that _he_ can be trusted. He knows it, but he understands that the Blades can't know ofc.

so he says don’t rsut dragons then says trust one...
seems to me he is saying HE KNOWS he can trust him self... so form now on your taking the guy at his world because he says so?

And... tempted? Yes, you bet. Just as much as the Dovahkin is being tempted all the time. Just as much as everyone is being tempted. A human giving in to temptation can wreak havoc upon the world. A dragon giving in can do that too. Do we kill everybody, because they are being tempted and potentially dangerous? I hope not. Dovahkin would have to kill him/herself first then.

But dragons do, a human is not 100% dragon, as you learn more shouts it becomes more dragon life but never fully dragon, we have a “nature” but its not like a real dragon, as you can see by there is plenty of dragonborn that where normal, how many dragons don’t kill everyone?
We are tempted yes, but are we tempted to kill everyone every day? If we admit that we would be admitted some where or locked up so yes we DO deal with that evrey day in real life

And what we see in Dawnguard too is that some prophecies can be made out of the Scrolls by someone. They come true only because they are enacted.

Yes they can be made, not CHANGED after they are done.
We KNOW Aduin was wrote on the elder scrolls, prhochised to return martin in iv says as much and says your the4 last.
We HAVE a poem that each part has come true, the last part came true and says the last dragonborn is gone...

And the blades _can_ kill Paarthurnax. They killed every freaking dragon they encountered and it took Alduins power to bring them back. Alduin is gone, so noone is going to bring Paarthurnax back if they kill him, even if they can't absorb is soul.

It is not clear what happens when a dragon dies and A NON dragonborn dose it
do they come back at a set time? if not they is not a dragon born not need then because only Aduin has the power to get them back, which we know it says a dragonborn is needed.
they could kill patthy one on one maybe but not with the gray beards AND having to climb the mouton remember you need a shout to get to the top, something the blades did not really have.

So _I_ think all they do is try and turn me and the Greybeards against each other so they have better control over me and I have nowhere else to turn for guidance. I don't trust the Blades and their oaths of loyalty. We know where that ended with the Reman-line. I'd much rather trust the Greybeards who have nothing to gain from a treachery, who never sought power beyond sitting on the mountain and mastering the Voice, whoi despite their great power never so much as made a single move to take over rulership over anything. Who say they will give me their loyalty up to a certain point (who are even willing to follow my lead despite it being against their own judgement!) but don't pretend to see me as kind of a god and then turn on me, because I don't follow their orders.

Except they do, if you side wi\th the blades they will have NOTHING to do with you, Pathty has to tell them to help you OVER and over, again you may say this is just prove he is good but we don’t know WHY he wanted to help

or was even granted that dream by one of the Gods, to point her towards something.


Also who are you to say when their oath of loyalty no longer apply?

An oath stays for as long as they want, there is no set time, they stopped being dragon hunters because they where for the most part ALL gone, then they guarded the dragon born (again dealing with something made to kill dragons)

And about the Master Araid-thing. I know he wanted him dead. The Blades would want Akatosh dead if they could find him, because hes a dragon >.< (that was a joke ofc, nothing ingame to support this claim^^). But my point is, they were willing to let him live until a chance to slay him arose. Nowhere in that book does it say, they turn on everyone that refuses to slay a dragon on the spot, no matter the cost. But Esbern and Delphine say they won't talk to me until I have slayn Paarthurnax. Why suddenly?

bemuse now you COULD do it, the master was waiting cause he knew he could not do it, you how ever can and the blades KNOW it.
the difference is that he waited because he needed to know they could, had he had been in the same shoes it seems he would of done the EXCAT same thing

They waited to a chance came one did and you denied them what may of been their only chance to ever do it.

It could wait a long time, why do I have to exact their sentence at once or they turn against me? I'm not their executioner, I swore no oath to kill dragons. They did. Heck, if I'd had a choice I wouldn't even want to talk to Delphine in the first place. The only thing I don't like is the fact that I have to 'steal' all the books in Sky Haven Temple from that point on. A temple they couldn't even have accessed if I hadn't been there.

your the dragon born, you are born to kill dragons, you where made to kill dragons... by tje God's, you ARE their executioner thats what the God's sent you to do, thats what the scrolls say a dragonborn will do.

[honneyboy]

The relevance of any given Scroll in any given timeline, and if the reader can give a report of the information in a way that can be in any way understood by those who need the information is questionable at best.

For example a prophecy that has all ready played out in this timeline may not have in another, thus reading the relevant Scroll may never give a single fixed reading.

If you think that they give you some divine grant to kill, they don't. Only your skill in battle does that.

[merry]

This post is a reply to Wolfie, but I don't know how to properly operate the forum yet, so I don't want to quote all of it. I'll just answer here

I'm taking the guy at his word, yes. Just as I would take everyone at his word who has given me no incentive to do otherwise yet. Do I think of the possibility that he might turn on me nonetheless? Of course. But that's a risk I'm willing to take.

Paarthurnax does not say the temptation lies with killing. The temptation lies with _ruling_. That's a difference. If you listen to him and read ingame books about it, you learn that there was a time when dragons ruled and men lived peaceful with their rule, their priests keeping up the status quo between dragons and mankind. Noone knows why, but someday that changed. I guess that was when Alduin decided to take over. Paarthurnax says, he tried to take Akatosh's place as the ruler of the dragons and the world. My guess is that it was then the dragon rule got cruel and the Dragon priests got cruel. I do not think Akatosh priests are considered evil, but still... they are technically dragon priests.
And if you see it that way... well, all the Dragonborn lived up to their nature and ruled. Not everyone of them went on killing sprees like Pelinal, but I think he is special among them ^^ But there was always war, killing and oppression going on.


It is true, all that happened made the prophecy come true. Yet the prophecy says nothing about the outcome, just that the wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn. So basically we could have aligned ourselves with Alduin and the prophecy would still be true. Or we could have done nothing. The prophecy would still be true. The prophecy says nothing about killing Paarthurnax.

The next few answers I think come from a misunderstanding of my post. I was not saying that the Greybeards do not turn on me. They do if I kill Paarthurnax. Just as I would shun (and in this game kill^^) someone whom I have given my trust and help and who would then proceed to kill a friend of mine, because I gave him the power to do so. But they do not pretend to revere me as a godlike figure before that and pretend to do everything I ask and give me everything I order because I am a Dragonborn, which Delphine pretends.

And the Grandmaster of the blades did not say that they couldn't kill Paarthurnax. He says they won't for now, because he doesn't want to anger the Greybeards any further. That hasn't changed, but Delphine and Esbern do not care, they just want me to enact their will. And now that the war against Alduin is over Paarthurnax _will_ roam the world and not sit upon the mountain top all the time, so now they have their chance, I did not take their chance away, I _gave_ it to them.

I also did not say they shouldn't try and follow their oath. They can surely try. But it is their oath, not mine. I don't want to have any part in it and if it comes to that I will stand against them together with Paarthurnax. I did not swear such an oath and I am not theirs to order around to do their killing. If they can't do it by right now they will just have to wait a little longer until they can.

And if it's so important to kill all remaining dragons... why was Delphine not there when Mirulnir came? She stood beside me, when Irileth announced that a dragon was attacking and walked right out of Dragonsreach. He was also one of the survivors and a known ally of Alduin. She didn't care. They also don't order me to kill Odahviing, who was a known ally of Alduin and sure as hell did many atrocious things too. So my point is, they are trying to pit me against the Greybeards to have greater control over me and Paarthurnax is only a means to an end to them.


I realize that this is my subjective view of the situation and I don't think everyone has to see it the same way

[Br3admax]

Actually, Wolfie, it does talk about the end of time, listen to Esbern talk. Maybe we're the Last Dragonborn, but has time ended, Esbern said contend with Alduin at the end of time.

[Wolfie]

Actually, Wolfie, it does talk about the end of time, listen to Esbern talk. Maybe we're the Last Dragonborn, but has time ended, Esbern said contend with Alduin at the end of time.

thats what he is there for, that is NOt the same thing as this, this just tells of the towers falling, NOT end times, aduin him self is made to end time, the one I showed you never said that when the last part happen time would end

one is about ADUIN suceding, the other dose not.

your using two different prophecy, NOT the same thing