Is EVERYONE using the smithing exploits?

[Pandamatak]

Everywhere I see, people are saying smithing is so good. I've seen multiple threads where there are weapons like daedric swords (base damage 14!) doing 300+ damage. With all the one handed perks, the daedric sword does 28. Bring that to 42 with 100 one handed.

How does 42 damage become 300? Is everyone using the fortify restoration exploit to improve weapons an absurd amount? Because I tried smithing my steel sword to superior and I got about a 20% damage increase...Nowhere near the 1000% people are getting.

Thing is, there are far too many people with super high damaging weapons - imo more than the amount of people doing this glitch. Is there any "legit" way to improve a weapon past 100% of its default damage?

[Crepe the Ashlander]

No, I will never use exploits, I don't like ruining the game for myself, IMO when it gets to easy, what's the point? Highest damage I will ever get for my daedric sword is nowhere on-par with what people can reach with exploits. I will improve it, and enchant it, but nope, nowhere over 100.

[Spiney]

The highest smithing teir is 'legendary' mind you.

So 42 x2 from perks is 84, x2 again from legendary forging which is 168 and throw in some enchantments, you could 250 even.

Though goes to show imbalanced Skyrim is.

[Luvitus]

You'll more than likely find that people are taking into account all their fortification enchantments on their clothing and not going off the sword's actual damage rating.

[Pandamatak]

@Spiney & Captain Future.

The 42 damage I provided already takes into account perks. So 84 damage with legendary smithing. I still don't get how you can get 40+ damage from an enchantment...enchanting exploits?

With all fortify equipment, assuming you reach a total of 150% (which is extremely good, probably only attainable at 100 enchanting) you still only get sub 200 damage.

Where's this 300+ damage I hear about?

[Spiney]

I have no idea.

Hacks I say.

[Luvitus]

I have no idea.

Hacks I say.

Or some people just want to sound like pros.

[Griffin909]

Maybe with damage (frost, shock, etc.) enchantments on the weapon itself along with all the skill enchants? And then they add it all together.

[Yaije]

Well using the equations from the Smithing page I found that with a level of 100, with 100% fortify enchanted armor (total), and a blacksmith potion of +117% I could temper a weapon up 41 points.

and according to here Smithing increase is factored into base damage before weapon skill and perks or enchanted gear.

So go with 54.... multiply by 2.5 for level 100 weapon skill. Double for the weapon perks, and then toss on another 120% effect

That 54 turns out very large. It isn't abusing restoration effects, it utilizes at the very least a fortify enchanting and smithing potions and full perks for everything you're using (daedric smithing, the +effect% alchemy, all the +% enchanting effects). Course when you stack 4 perked out skill trees you're going to be a boss no matter what.

edit:

Spoiler:

54*2.5*2*2.2=594.... before enchants and poisons? yup

No hacks involved, just maxing 3 skills in addition to the weapon skill and focusing only on making damage higher. More than 5 perks spent in each of the 4 trees.

Maybe with damage (frost, shock, etc.) enchantments on the weapon itself along with all the skill enchants? And then they add it all together.

Nope, but enchants can get pretty nasty. Like 69+ Flame/shock (total 138) or 109 flame/shock (total 218).... Numbers reached because of how Augmented <elements> (from destruction) stack with the Elemental enchanter perks AND how dual effects share anything they benefit from.

[Derp53]

i don't use elemental damage enchants on my sword, on the other hand i find the most efficient piece of armor with a fortify one handed enchant and improve that ie. ebony gauntlets of eminent wielding. Then i make a the sword and use blacksmith's philters (all scavenged and bought) to improve my stuff

[mamba12]

since i think leather armor and a steel sword are the coolest looking gear for my guy, it helps to buff the crap out of them to get them on the same level as Dragon gear.

but i don't use the restoration glitch to get god-like weapons. just a legit 100 smithing, 100 enchanting

[Vigrtor Blood-Tears]

I have a character who's a master smith and a character who is a master enchanter. If you don't combine them, the game retains most of it's challenge.

[Red Guardian]

Sometimes, yes. But I don't use to raise a weapon to crazy numbers like 3000 damage per hit or anything of the sort.

[Gideon Dragontongue]

They're using a crafting cycle to buff their enchantments and smithing improvements to an absurd amount. But keep in mind that just because you can do that, doesn't mean you should, or you're supposed to. If you like playing with a 300 damage sword, then feel free to ruin the game for your self. Or, you can play with a maximum damage of around 100, as the developers intended for you to, and everything's still going to feel balanced. It's your decision.

[Yaije]

I have a character who's a master smith and a character who is a master enchanter. If you don't combine them, the game retains most of it's challenge.

when you combine either with an advanced weapon based skill the game loses it's challenge as both can double (or more) your potential damage per hit.

[Pandamatak]

Well using the equations from the Smithing page I found that with a level of 100, with 100% fortify enchanted armor (total), and a blacksmith potion of +117% I could temper a weapon up 41 points.

and according to here Smithing increase is factored into base damage before weapon skill and perks or enchanted gear.

So go with 54.... multiply by 2.5 for level 100 weapon skill. Double for the weapon perks, and then toss on another 120% effect

That 54 turns out very large. It isn't abusing restoration effects, it utilizes at the very least a fortify enchanting and smithing potions and full perks for everything you're using (daedric smithing, the +effect% alchemy, all the +% enchanting effects). Course when you stack 4 perked out skill trees you're going to be a boss no matter what.

edit:

Spoiler:

54*2.5*2*2.2=594.... before enchants and poisons? yup

No hacks involved, just maxing 3 skills in addition to the weapon skill and focusing only on making damage higher. More than 5 perks spent in each of the 4 trees.

Maybe with damage (frost, shock, etc.) enchantments on the weapon itself along with all the skill enchants? And then they add it all together.

Nope, but enchants can get pretty nasty. Like 69+ Flame/shock (total 138) or 109 flame/shock (total 218).... Numbers reached because of how Augmented <elements> (from destruction) stack with the Elemental enchanter perks AND how dual effects share anything they benefit from.

The 42 damage mentioned on the OP is already taking into account a skill of 100 plus all perks. Temper that up 41 points (maximum) and you get 83. Give it a very generous +150% fortify one handed from enchanting and you get 207, which ends up being the complete theoretical max for a sword without enchants on it.

And, I don't understand how 69 enchanting is possible. It seems more plausible to me now, though, since the destruction perks seem to stack with it like you said, but at level 76 enchanting (3/5 Enchanter Perk + Fire Enchanter) I get maximum 22 damage. With the proper potions (at 65 alchemy) I get 34 damage. I don't understand how this can become 69 unless enchanting potential as skill levels is not linear.

Edit: Actually...I see your point. 207 damage for a maxed out daedric sword and put in two +69 enchantments and you have 345 damage. Still - I find it suspicious how you can improve a weapon that does 42 damage up 41 points...It's basically doubling it.

[Yaije]

The 42 damage mentioned on the OP is already taking into account a skill of 100 plus all perks. Temper that up 41 points (maximum) and you get 83. Give it a very generous +150% fortify one handed from enchanting and you get 207, which ends up being the complete theoretical max for a sword without enchants on it.

No i mean the game checks by looking at the base damage then adds the tempered bonus BEFORE it adds in the perks and enchantment bonuses.

So effectively goes :

(Base + Tempering) * skill bonus * perks from weapon skill * enchantment bonuses

Tempering is factored in by the game before perks no matter what order the player acquired them in.

edit:
as to the doubling. Weapon skill maxed out effectively multiplies all damage with that weapon by 2.5, without the extra 100% from perks.

And, I don't understand how 69 enchanting is possible. It seems more plausible to me now, though, since the destruction perks seem to stack with it like you said, but at level 76 enchanting (3/5 Enchanter Perk + Fire Enchanter) I get maximum 22 damage. With the proper potions (at 65 alchemy) I get 34 damage. I don't understand how this can become 69 unless enchanting potential as skill levels is not linear.

Enchanting bonuses while leveling is roughly the same as weapon damage progression (counting only the weapon skill and no outside factors). It is when you start adding in the % multipliers that things get wonky. And something going on with the extra effect perk.

When one effect benefits from augmented flames/flame enchanter, both effects will get benefit. Thus you can make Absorb health benefit from them if paired with a fire damage effect. This is doubly true when you pair two effects that benefit from different % multiplying perks (i.e. storm enchanter AND flame enchanter for a double dose of +25% bonus).

silly numbers at MAX rank with heavy perk investment are easily possible without restoration potion glitching. Or any exploitation method at all.

[Redguard_Master]

i didn't use the unholy triumverate of alchemy, smithing, and enchanting that can make damage beyond overkill but i do use smithing and enchanting. my dragon bone sword is like 365 from a laundry list of buffs but I never exploited anything. how did I do it, 100 one handed with max one handed damage perks and 100 smithing with dragon perks, 4 items enchanted with 28% better weapons and armor, 4 items enchanted with 40% more one handed damage and the sword made legendary with a blacksmith elixir to boot and while wearing the four 28% items. I think that's all.

[Pandamatak]

edit:
as to the doubling. Weapon skill maxed out effectively multiplies all damage with that weapon by 2.5, without the extra 100% from perks.

Each level adds a 0.5% damage increase so at skill level 100 you get a 50% increase (more like 40% since you start at 15-20).

I guess order of operations is where the high damage is coming from. If tempering goes before, a 100% fortify one handed effectively also doubles as a improve weapon 100% more enchantment.

[Bomb_Voyage]

With 5/5 Armsman, the appropriate Smithing perk, 5/5 Alchemist (plus Benefactor), 5/5 Enchanter, and a high valuation in each respective skill, any weapon in the game can do much higher than 42 damage.

For example, my Necromage vampire mage has 5/5 Armsman, Mystic Binding, 5/5 Alchemist, Benefactor, and 5/5 Enchanter. If I wear five pieces of apparel enchanted with 33% Fortify Alchemy enchantments, I can make a potion of 46% Fortify Enchanting, which in turns allows me to make 54% Fortify One-Handed enchantments. Necromage increases the magnitude of enchantments as long as I am undead, effectively making that 54% into 67%. One 67% Fortify One-Handed enchantment on my gloves and another on my boots give me around 200 damage when I dual-wield Bound Swords.

Now imagine if instead of Bound Swords, those were actual Daedric Swords, improved to Legendary and beyond with the Daedric Crafting perk, four pieces of apparel enchanted with 33% Fortify Smithing, and a potion of 180%~ Fortify Smithing. Throw in the 2/2 Augmented Flames/Frost/Shock, Fire/Frost/Shock Enchanter, possibly Aspect of Terror and you can tack in the neighborhood of +150 points of elemental magic damage on top of that. It's not difficult to reach obscene damage values without resorting to the Fortify Restoration glitch as a result of the way Alchemy, Enchanting, and Smithing interact with one another.

The crafting skills are just poorly balanced. Even on Master, dealing two hundred plus damage per hit is enough to overwhelm most opponents, to say nothing of dealing more.

[Yaije]

I wouldn't say the crafting skills are poorly balanced. I'd say the entire game is, especially when perks are factored in. The game just hands out double damage/armor so easily it's not even that funny.

[Shadowscale]

Yes i max out my smithing and get most perks but the thing is i only do this so i can get my companions armour and weapons to legendary as he is getting pretty weak up at the higher level's and more dangerous enemies.

[Pandamatak]

I wouldn't say the crafting skills are poorly balanced. I'd say the entire game is, especially when perks are factored in. The game just hands out double damage/armor so easily it's not even that funny.

True. The funny thing is, the difference between the different materials is only ~1 point but that usually escalates to 30+ points when you're done "crafting"

[Yaije]

Tempering doesn't change the spread of the damage range on the different material types. The main difference in the spread is a result of your weapon skill and the perks within the weapon skill.

[Pandamatak]

Tempering doesn't change the spread of the damage range on the different material types. The main difference in the spread is a result of your weapon skill and the perks within the weapon skill.

That's what I meant. After tempering daedric is not that much better than ebony in terms of % improvement, so you can really use any weapon you want since they will be similar to daedric stats when fully smithed.