Frost Mage wrote:Has anyone notice how all of these threads have blended together? People keep their opinions, nothing has changed since the last debate, and no matter how different one side of politics is from another, it usually becomes the same argument. Half the time I don't even bother reading because it's been done so many times. Can we please wait a while before we have another one of these threads?
My viewpoint has, very subtly, changed... It's probably just lost somewhere in the half that you don't read
Frost Mage wrote:Has anyone notice how all of these threads have blended together? People keep their opinions, nothing has changed since the last debate, and no matter how different one side of politics is from another, it usually becomes the same argument. Half the time I don't even bother reading because it's been done so many times. Can we please wait a while before we have another one of these threads?
My viewpoint has, very subtly, changed... It's probably just lost somewhere in the half that you don't read
As has mine. It's a part of life. I'm just getting a little sick of feeling that I need to contribute to a thread with my opinion, when it's already been said countless times, as has other people's. It's irritating.
House of the Wolf wrote:The only problem I see with that assertion is that this Nation isn't a friend, or a colleague..it's your and our home. If something is genuinely wrong with it, it is incumbent upon you (and all of us) to fix it. If there's a hole in the roof that shouldn't be there, then you probably shouldn't ignore it or try to simply accept it.
It's only "your home" because some old farts told you it was. You were born within the invisible lines surrounding an arbitrarily delineated "gang zone", a space of territory claimed by one large group of people with loads of cash and tons of guns. They slapped a number on you to ensure they could rob you of a portion of your future production; big deal. Where's your social contract? When did you sign it?
Besides, it's not "incumbent" on me to do anything. That's the beauty of America, or at least it was, back when America was still a liberal nation, and actually worth it for rational individuals to voluntarily tip the ol' social contract hat to. The country isn't there to "fix" me, and I'm not here to "fix" it. I'm a sovereign individual, not an abstract collective, and so are you, whether you want to be or not. I believe it's every man's right to go about their business without me trying to sort things out for you. And who can argue with that? Do you really want me fixing your problems for you?
Besides, hell if I'm going to support sedition on an open online forum. What "hole"? What exactly are you trying to fix? Are there bombs involved, Mohammed?
For an European, Americans look like the classic spoiled child who wants to be big bad and loud as his papa but is unfortunaltely dumb as a brick. Sure in time the child will learn the basics of running the family business but it seems that he is still not a worthy heir. Only time will tell.
While Americans were worthy of respect by the past european generations now the fortune has reversed, they are a mere target for jokes, a forutne that you made so, none other.
Sure, who would not be proud of your son responding in tone to the threats of his parent, it means that he is grown up, grown up but far from adult.
And House and the likes of you, note the word europeans...I speak as an European, a thing you people seem to not comprehend.
So yeah, blame me if you wish but so far America and its people are a joke on the streets of Europe be it in Italy, Sweden or anywhere else in Europe. A name that you and you alone ruined with your actions, none other did it for you.
"You have the honor of addressing a member of the Thalmor. Bask in it."
What are you talking about, Doros, if anything America is more liberal. And the individual bound by history, government, and ideals = country. Read atext book, remember 1800-1953. And yes it's your job to fix a country that gives you the right to spit in its face. There are many places that would make you pay dearly for even saying such things. You know what's really a joke now? The euro, and Italy certainly isn't helping is it?
Justice knight wrote:Oh and listen to Br3ad he speaks wisdom.
Arterion wrote:So yeah, blame me if you wish but so far America and its people are a joke on the streets of Europe be it in Italy, Sweden or anywhere else in Europe. A name that you and you alone ruined with your actions, none other did it for you.
True...but its really sad that you are labeling most Europeans to be ignorant in their views on Americans. I don't think myself, my family, or any of our neighbors, have actually been involved in anything the U.S. government does in "our" name. I am sure that plenty of people have low views on Americans, but not all of us are like the stereotype carved out for us. The majority of Americans I know like to keep to themselves, respect the law, respect other people, and work hard for their families and their futures. Its pretty lame you think that way, but of course, you are entitled so. Still lame.
Blah, blah, blah... No one cares about a whiny, racist, homophobic, Italian xenophobe who thinks the boot of Europe is, in anyway, a shining beacon of freedom and great ideas.
Blah, blah, blah... No one cares about a whiny, racist, homophobic, Italian xenophobe who thinks the boot of Europe is, in anyway, a shining beacon of freedom and great ideas.
Let's not go that far. Personal attacks are silly things.
Your country, Arterion, is younger than ours. Yet every other forum you talk about us being Europe's child or the rich history of your house's wall. Don't claim Rome's history as your own, much as American history is not the Native American or Early Settlers history. And remember you country came together so well because of us. AR leads to FR leads to Italy nationality, so America says your welcome.
Last edited by Br3admax on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Justice knight wrote:Oh and listen to Br3ad he speaks wisdom.
Arterion wrote:
And House and the likes of you, note the word europeans...I speak as an European, a thing you people seem to not comprehend.
So I'm gonna ignore all of your other bull because I want to try to be a good guy and keep this ontopic. The topic being, what is a "true ____". I gave my insights on what I thought a true American was, and all I saw in your post were insults. So rather than degrading entire nations and the people who call those places home, why don't you tell me what a European is, since you seem to think I don't know what that is.
BetaB17 wrote:
scrib - Chief of Security & not giving a [&@%!]
House of the Wolf wrote:Blah, blah, blah... No one cares about a whiny, racist, homophobic, Italian xenophobe who thinks the boot of Europe is, in anyway, a shining beacon of freedom and great ideas.
"The e-peen's only at 50%, sir! We need more insults!"
Uh huh.. So how's the weather where you are? It was blazing here on the East Coast for a couple weeks, but it's starting to level-off.
Oops! Was I getting too real?
I mean, if you REALLY want me to start trying to "fix" America, you know, sort out everyone elses problems- your problems- according to my own media-saturated morally-indignant whims, by all means, let me know and we can start doing this thing. But call me old fashioned, I'd rather you volunteered to have me fix your problems before I went ahead and did so; think of that as Step 1 in my "Fix The Hole" incumbency.
Also, you're a liar. It's not been that hot here on the East Coast; never once got above 105.
What are you talking about, Doros, if anything America is more liberal.
...
Define "liberal", please, according to your understanding.
Rhyme Asylum wrote:
House of the Wolf wrote:Blah, blah, blah... No one cares about a whiny, racist, homophobic, Italian xenophobe who thinks the boot of Europe is, in anyway, a shining beacon of freedom and great ideas.
"The e-peen's only at 50%, sir! We need more insults!"
Quick, before the thread gets locked, here's your claps:
Only nibble I'll give to your bait is that I wasn't referring to the nation on a micro; but, rather, the nation on the macro. Nice try, though, sweetheart! Maybe next time...
I do nor label the actions of the great romans as those of my nation but at least I acknowledge them as one of the pillars of european culture, much like the chatolic religion and the greek philosophy. What I know are the actions of my ancestors and they are quite a thing to be proud of, be it four centuries ago or merly twenty years ago.
Italy is but an european nation but we are one of the cradles of european culture as is Germany, France and even the smallest states like Bulgaria and Slovenia. I know that even in my small town there are things way older than your States even if my Constitution dates not so back in history, but the statues, cathedrals, castles and so on do and surpass the many achievements of America. The achievements of those people made Europe as it is nowdays and the same people who built this monuments sent their sons and daughters to the Americas as colonists, settlers and wokers. So who created who I ask, who can claim the senior rank here?
I dare you to write an epic text as the Divina Commedia, to build the Sistine Chapel or produce works of art like the Mona Lisa, the Davide and so on, things that the many italian artists did, things that are some of the most important parts of Europe and to an extent the world's heritage. And if that would not be enough we can speak of the world renown italian cusine, the fashion sector, the great innovation in technical sectors (Ferrari), some of the world's best designs...or are those to you just mere things, I think not. We are unique, you are a conglomerate of ideas and ideals that is not working well. If the world looses America is just looses more of the same and plain, if it looses Europe it looses a cradle of a culture and many things that cannot be replicated.
Now if I ask ten random people on the street, eight will say nothing good about America and even less of its people. Not my fault but such are the things. I dont write the rules on this world but alas so it happend that an American will face a horrible reputation world wide. Same can be said in several cases about the Italians but at last we have things to be proud of and who redeem us.
Now who is an european? I am and many people like me are. I was rised in a catholic family, I served my nation for three years as a soldier and I look forwad to serve even more as an officer. I study law, speak four european languages, I know the traditions of my people and defend them against everything. I consider myself a classic european, schooled in the classic european themes of law, philosophy and christian religion and I am quite the conservative type. There are way more things that make a person european, the genetic heritage the least but at least the above are a start.
Last edited by Arterion on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
"You have the honor of addressing a member of the Thalmor. Bask in it."
Only nibble I'll give to your bait is that I wasn't referring to the nation on a micro; but, rather, the nation on the macro. Nice try, though, sweetheart! Maybe next time...
It's not "bait", it's just the rather horrifying consequence of what happens when we take your position to it's natural conclusion. You want "us"- some abstract us, an amorphous haze that you haven't really thought about- to "fix" the country- that is, to interfere with the coercive elements that control our national territory, in order to make those coercive elements' agendas better reflect "our" own.
But you don't really want me to do that, do you?
Hell, I wouldn't. That's why I reject the notion of "fixing" our country completely. It's not up to us to "fix" anybody but ourselves. We might be able to offer help to people who voluntarily ask for it (and who needs a nation to intercede in that?), but all this talk of "fixing" society and "inherent duties towards the collective" is just a sophisticated moral mask to excuse oppression and tyranny.
Negative, Doros. My implication, however poorly worded, was that if the individual sees something wrong with the nation (as a state), they should do what they can to fix the problem. If possible, or if they're daunted or otherwise ill-equipped, they should be able to ask their fellow citizens (or neighbors) for help if they're willing to lend any.
Not a nanny-state interested in the livelihoods of the individuals, but an actual nation ("gang", as you described it) interested in the quality of their nation and all within it.
It's simply an ideal, but it was something we were far closer to in the past than we are at present, which would indicate that it's not so far-fetched. Hell, the Swedes actually have the closest thing to that and they're working-out just fine, so it ain't exactly fantasy.
Funny, when I think of helping my country, I think of things like not being a drain on society, taking responsibility for my own actions, voting for competent people if at all possible (and in local elections, it often is), raising my kid to not be a waste of oxygen and landfill space, and trying to help others in my community.
Deandra wrote:Funny, when I think of helping my country, I think of things like not being a drain on society, taking responsibility for my own actions, voting for competent people if at all possible (and in local elections, it often is), raising my kid to not be a waste of oxygen and landfill space, and trying to help others in my community.
Deandra wrote:Funny, when I think of helping my country, I think of things like not being a drain on society, taking responsibility for my own actions, voting for competent people if at all possible (and in local elections, it often is), raising my kid to not be a waste of oxygen and landfill space, and trying to help others in my community.
Not sure if this was meant for me, but it wouldn't make sense if it were.. Nowhere, in any of my posts, did I say anything that would disagree with that. In fact, everything I've said agrees with that, unless I'm just completely misreading them..?
Last edited by House of the Wolf on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deandra wrote:Funny, when I think of helping my country, I think of things like not being a drain on society, taking responsibility for my own actions, voting for competent people if at all possible (and in local elections, it often is), raising my kid to not be a waste of oxygen and landfill space, and trying to help others in my community.
Not sure if this was meant for me, but it wouldn't make sense if it were.. Nowhere, in any of my posts, did I say anything that would disagree with that. In fact, everything I've said agrees with that, unless I'm just completely misreading my own posts..?
Then it most likely has nothing to do with your posts...?
