Soul Trapping - Morally Troubling?

mandangalow · Post by **mandangalow** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:58 pm

Before you read this i would like to inform you that i realize i play way to much Oblivion to even think about this, but i ask that you seriously think about my ideas and respond with courtesy.

In Oblivion you can capture the soul of a dying creature. This is fine, if you are under the catholic or any form of christianity for that matter you know that, acording to the bible, creatures soul have no place in the kindom of God. So capturing the soul of a creature isnt a moral infracture. Black soul gems which capture human souls obviosly is wrong, but on that note i would like to point out all the 'creatures' that used to be human whos souls you can capture. Skeletons, Zombies, Ghosts and Lichs all used to be humans, and with the exeption of the Lich all were pressed into service by Necromancers. Isnt that kinda like taking someone whos soul was taking someone whos soul was in service for an eternity and saying 'hey instead of moving you into the after life i decieded to make you shoot fire out of my sword for an eternity instead.' Even Lichs who were just humans in the quest for eternal life can have their sins forgiven and move into eternal life with Talos and the other devines. Just wondering what you thought about the matter, and please dont hate on my thoughts!

weka · Post by **weka** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:28 pm

I don't actually like taking souls of any of the creatures, and for that reason for a long time I didn't use any Soul Gems, and always paid to recharge everything. (I would have thought that the Bible etc prob says that those creatures just don't have a soul? Rather than they have a soul but are not allowed in?? But in this game everything has a soul!)

But then I decided that it was just a game and time I got over it......

Besides, it was getting more and more difficult to find sufficiently damaging weapons to carry out my wholesale slaughter!!

I don't really like any of the fighting aspects of the game, I just like the adventure and storyline and bouncing about the countryside picking ingredients etc.

i9ub · Post by **i9ub** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:07 pm

I am a godless heathen with no sound set of morals.

Stealing souls doesn't really bother me. :twisted:

Immortal NPC · Post by **Immortal NPC** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:20 pm

Well, you have to keep in mind that old classic saying, "It's just a game." No one is really 'losing their soul' or anything like that. They were never really people to begin with... I guess that's why some poeple get so mad at video games, and not just the players... politicians and other critics don't understand there is only that .00001% that go completely insane and believe they are in the game, but hey, that's just people in general anyways that are crazy.

So, I guess what I'm saying is... it's nice to see someone SERIOUSLY playing the game and retain their morals at the same time instead of abusing what is possible in the game (not hating on i9ub), but it's not really necessary to worry about these things.

And to show my support for both sides, I think it's also good to go crazy sometimes and just kill everybody. For whatever your reason, it's still a lot better than shooting up your school or really killing someone...

P.S. - I hate killing wolves, that sound is just soo bad... reminds me of my dog...

weka · Post by **weka** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:15 pm

Immortal NPC wrote:P.S. - I hate killing wolves, that sound is just soo bad... reminds me of my dog...

I know what you mean and I feel worse if it's a Dog.

But then I'm not into the game for the killing thing.

SaintD · Post by **SaintD** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:14 am

This is an interesting question, I think. First, I too hate killing wolves. They cry just like a wounded dog. One of my housemates works in a vet clinic. Killing wolves doesn't go over well with her...

I have a theory about trapping "souls". It's plainly evident that magicka is attracted to most living creatures. Any spell caster can tell you that it's constantly seeping into them after they discharge a spell. So when a "soul" is trapped in a regular soul gem, my hypothesis is that you are only collecting the magicka energy that filled the creature at the time of it's death. Summoned creatures aren't the same as regular living beings. You use magic to summon them and magic keeps them animated. They don't have a real soul to even collect. (in the case of the undead at least). In the case of demonic creatures, they just go back to the plan of oblivion they were from when they "die". You are still just collecting the magicka energy they had collected from the world that is released when they are banished back to oblivion.

Filling a black sould gem is another matter. In this case I think you really are trapping the soul of the individual. This is the purest form of evil you can perpetrate on that individual. No wonder the mages guild has outlawed the pratice.

mikeycrazy · Post by **mikeycrazy** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:27 am

the way i see it i dont care if the person isn't innocent, if somebody attacks me it's their fault...they should just be thankful i don't use the MR and send their souls to mr prince of destruction, only people who [&@%!] me off get that fate.

mikeycrazy · Post by **mikeycrazy** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:32 am

it's also fun trappin those damn neco's in their own soul gems. serves em right anyways for doing whatever their doing in those dark caves all alone with corpses............ewww Falanu Hlaalu knows what i'm talkin about!

mandangalow · Post by **mandangalow** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:03 pm

mikeycrazy wrote:...ewww Falanu Hlaalu knows what i'm talkin about!

Yes, she does but necromancers do it for free she's gotta shell out 500 gold, although that is much cheaper than in Morrowind!

Codex · Post by **Codex** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:30 pm

To those of you who doesn't like to kill dogs, be aware of the Sheogorat (or something) quest.

weka · Post by **weka** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:46 pm

Your warning was just too late for me! It was really horrible, not at all what I was expecting. Just did it this avo.

Wasn't too keen on doing that quest anyhow, cause I rather liked Border Watch, thought it was a nice town. Only really did it to stop Martin whinging on about an artifact.

GamingSoldier · Post by **GamingSoldier** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:39 am

Trapping souls... Dark Brotherhood quests... Hmmm, nope, doesn't bother me. -Continues his delightful romp through the rich peoples houses, slaughtering and collecting loot- Yes, I'm evil. So very very evil.

weka · Post by **weka** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:04 pm

GamingSoldier wrote:.... Continues his delightful romp .... Yes, I'm evil. So very very evil.

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time!!

Westworld · Post by **Westworld** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:01 pm

Well that way I see it is it's only a game, I would find many of the things I do in the game morally troubling if it were to be happening in real life.
For the most part if it attacks me it is fair game, soul and all

. With the exception of the DB missions, in that case I am just following orders! lol

Blame it on my superiors.

Hardcore Heathen · Post by **Hardcore Heathen** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:02 am

Do I find it morally troubling to cast a spell on a bit of code to make my imaginary weapons work better at killing other little bits of code to make my weapon work better? No. I, good sir, am a Heathen. I go into chapels, kill the priests with my Cowl of Nocturnal, drag their body (and the bodies of a few guards and maybe a parishioner or two) onto the altar, remove the cowl, and pray. (Parishioner = Church-goer) The closest thing I've come to being morally troubling in this game is when I had to clear out a nest of half-insane murdering cultists. I speak of my Dark Brotherhood of course. If I could I'd join the Mythic Dawn for real in that mission where you infiltrate (side note. If you take the book before releasing/killing the prisoner, the statue collapses and crushes him. Hilarious) And side with Dagon. I'd cut a crimson swathe through the blades and bring Martin Septim's head to the Daedra Prince. Before I killed him and put his soul in Azura's Star. Maybe he can keep Vivec and Co. entertained. Postal 2 disturbs me. This makes me smile.

mandangalow · Post by **mandangalow** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:53 pm

Your going to hell dude.

MadMax06 · Post by **MadMax06** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:24 am

Immortal NPC wrote:Well, you have to keep in mind that old classic saying, "It's just a game." No one is really 'losing their soul' or anything like that.

Ah but some of us have lost our souls...BY PLAYING THE GAME!

but in all seriousness, it doesnt matter to me, cuz it IS just a game

Hardcore Heathen · Post by **Hardcore Heathen** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:03 am

mandangalow wrote:Your going to hell dude.

Yep. But my Cat Sniper will cover me.

mageman 90 · Post by **mageman 90** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:27 am

soul trapping? if i could soul trap in real life i'd have about 500 fly souls, bacteria souls unlimited and mabye others, but soul trapping a naturally dying person would not be morally wrong, murder is wrong but im also a "heathen", all my freinds, family and most of my aquaintances are all heathens, atheists or in one case, ex-cristian (converted after hearing about evolution, according to him he never liked the idea of suddenly appearing in a garden, naked and unable to expereince anything but pleasure) so soul trapping creatures in my opinion is perfectly OK and human souls are OK too, but no murdering. (if souls existed, all you are taking is the energy from the soul, not the soul itself, so it would still be in heaven, but would need to recuperate. it's got eternity to do so). also, arent you saving a sinners soul from hell? and people dont get baptised in oblivion, so they go to hell anyway because of original sin, you save them a month of hell in recuperation time. (did you know that a baby commits sin every second? using christian logic of life at conception, as soon as it is conceived id has not heard of god and is therefore heathen, until it is taught it sins every second)

Lloyd DeVirr · Post by **Lloyd DeVirr** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:16 pm

Well, taking souls aren't really a problem for me, except the fact i do not got magicka enough to cast a soul trap spell, neither have i yet found one whom actually sells a mysticism spell thati could use. As many assults and murders i have, i (My char. ofcause) am moraly rotten enough to do whatever it takes to kill my foe.

But once, just south of Hircines shrine, there was a camp and two bandits. One of the bandits used a regular metal weapon, but the other, a female, used a Dwarven battleaxe with a Soul Trap enchantmet. When i had that soul trap on me.. Oh boy, she should never had hit me with that. I think i wasted one hour after she died, hitting her in the face with my fists. Then i started to butn, as dawn broke

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Soul Trapping - Morally Troubling?

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