TESO - how to make it work

[SajuukKhar]

Notice that I said "including something designed specifically for the lore buffs". That's not the same as making a game for the lore buffs. And, IMHO, the depth and consistency of TES universe (in other words - the lore) is a huge part of its success. I don't think a huge open world, but without an interesting history or traditions would be anywhere near as attractive.

I would wager that 95% of people who play ES dont have a flippin clue about the lore, because the lore really wasn't that important to the ES success.

[dzio]

I think we have different ideas on what actually is the lore, to the average player at least. I'm not talking about memorizing every one of Vivec's sermons or being able to name every constelation in the sky. I'm talking about things like different styles of architecture or clothing, speech patterns of NPCs of different race, bards' songs, random bits of historical info you hear in a conversation. You may not pay any attention to it (or have a flippin clue, as you say), but it's always in the background and it makes the world feel alive. You notice it, even if it's just a brief thought along the lines of: "Blah, blah, blah, shut up already, I don't care about any smugglers/daedra worshippers/lost caravans". That's what I meant when I said that the lore made Tamriel more interesting and attractive.

[Mefris Elmek]

^Bravo Dzio

From what I hear the the Mage's Guild will cater to the Lore buffs by finding Books that are heavy from a lore standpoint.Still,I sincerely hope that is not the ONLY thing lore-hungry people can do to appease their appetite.

[SajuukKhar]

I think we have different ideas on what actually is the lore, to the average player at least. I'm not talking about memorizing every one of Vivec's sermons or being able to name every constelation in the sky. I'm talking about things like different styles of architecture or clothing, speech patterns of NPCs of different race, bards' songs, random bits of historical info you hear in a conversation. You may not pay any attention to it (or have a flippin clue, as you say), but it's always in the background and it makes the world feel alive. You notice it, even if it's just a brief thought along the lines of: "Blah, blah, blah, shut up already, I don't care about any smugglers/daedra worshippers/lost caravans". That's what I meant when I said that the lore made Tamriel more interesting and attractive.

Ohh... well I guess those are somewhat important, the wildly inconsistent nature of those things makes me ignore them.

One I heard the "I heard rumors that Vivec was taken by the Daedra" line in Oblivion I just started tuning out what NPCs say.

[Yal]

New post regarding the recent interview, I saw this answer:

It seems that there’s a lot of interest in new MMOGs, but not mass loyalty? How do you encourage that huge migrating audience to stay with your game long-term?
You give people lots of different types of things to do. You make it replayable so that it’s fun to play a different character – not even in a different alliance, in the same alliance, for example. You can go through our content in a different order, make different choices, power-level or stop and smell the roses – we support both those types of gameplay and that’s a big part of keeping people around.

SOURCE: http://www.edge-online.com/features/how-bethesdas-taking-elder-scrolls-online
That is exactly why this game will fail. You don't rely on people 'making new characters' to keep playing. That is the road to failure. An amazing MMORPG keeps the player interested their whole playtime on one or two characters alone. If the community is accommodated for, and freedom enough feels prevalent, then that is #1. That is why SWTOR did not last.

[N'wah Nern]

Since many of the alliances seem "unrealistic", I would hope a lot of the NPCs voice their racist opinions on their new found allied nations. Sort of like how in Skyrim the Nords are technically allied with the Aldmeri Dominion even though they hate them.

[AKB]

What's the point of having races in a RPG if you don't include loads of racism? I'm pretty sure it's a law.

[JimDaniels]

Speaking of lore! Where will all of this story fit into the history of tamriel? Obviously it will be after 2E 830 but will it "end" before the Battle of Sancre Tor? or will that be included in the game? Which I suppose will not happen because we already know the outcome of that battle. I suppose there are 22 years inbetween which are "un told" apart from the birth of Cyrus...

It will be in the Ninth Century alright, but in 2E 852 a Nord-Breton army the stronghold of Sancre Tor. But in the TES online has "The Daggerfall Covenant" of Breton/Redguard and Orcs. So is it set after Sancre Tor?

It can't be after 2E 896 because Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel and after then (2E 897) the 3rd Era begins...

I don't know

[LauZ]

I hope the people who made the idea of the Second Era remmember such events, jimmy danny...

[Tiber_Septim_Inn]

Just realized there's no way this would work.

TESO has a system very similar to that of chromehounds. Chromehounds was an easily exploitable game due to this "empire" system. Like-wise, it only makes sense that this game will also be incredibly exploitable for the same reasons. Essentially, servers will be dedicated to 1 superior team (after the fighting is over) and that server stagnates with lack of gameplay. The fundamental problem is that there's no way to regulate it. You can't just say "Well, you have to be in the dominion and he has to be in the covenant." That eliminates the entire sanctity of choice, the single most important value of TES games. **** adventure, graphics, story, gameplay and all of that jazz. TES has always been about choices. Without that, it's nothing. The game is damned either way. If the game isn't regulated, the system dies. If the game is regulated (to promote balance between teams), you kill the soul of the game.

It's the same thing that killed Chromehounds and it will undoubtedly kill this as well. Zeniomax needs to detract importance from this gameplay mechanic or something if they want the game to be a success.

[Mefris Elmek]

I share your thoughts on this TSI.In the current form one faction will end up dominating a entire server and this will raise quite a few problems.

[OblivionDuruza]

Since many of the alliances seem "unrealistic", I would hope a lot of the NPCs voice their racist opinions on their new found allied nations. Sort of like how in Skyrim the Nords are technically allied with the Aldmeri Dominion even though they hate them.

In what way exactly are the unrealistic? I'm interested as to why some people seem to think this as I really don't see where in any of the Lore it indicates that alliances like this could or should never exist.

[N'wah Nern]

First we have Nords-Dunmer-Argonians. Nords and Dunmer have a history of war and invasion, but in times of trouble I could see an alliance of convenience. It is the Argonian-Dunmer part that is the real incompatibility. The dev said that the Argonians wanted the alliance so they could finally "be on equal footing" with the Dunmer, but just seems strange. The Dunmer have a long tradition of Argonian slavery and they see them as less than people. The response most would take to that is trying to overthrow/destabilize/get back at their oppressors, not joining them to make them stronger.

Redguards-Bretons-Orcs. It's mainly the Orc part. I mean, Redguards and Bretons have been at war with each other and there is some animosity there, but the Orcs have been persecuted and never had their own nation and that was one of the big things in Daggerfall. I just don't see peace between them.

I don't really see a problem with the Altmer-Bosmer-Khajiit. That's basically what the Aldmeri Dominion is in Skyrim and might explain why the Thalmor went after those nations first.

[Da_BossMaN69]

This is whole business adventure is such a waste. TES can't be TES in an MMO fashion, I mean yes it's possible, but I hardly see it happening. I mean first of all the Core issue I have is the gameplay, how can you make that transition to MMO.

I mean what's the #1 complaint with Skryim? The quests, how in God's name can they not become fetch missions. Thieve's Guild, Dark Brotherhood. How can you implement those two, they need NPC interaction to work, you have to go around and steal, be stealthy. Not only is the obvious problem the fact you can't have 3-5 people sneaking, but that you can't substitute the NPCs, what is going to happen when we need to talk to them for the quest?

There were many quests in the SP games where NPC's flee, go missing, or turn on you in a dramatic fashion, how can we just make them vanish for one person and not for everyone else who needs them? The end compromise can only limit to a point where they will probably become stagnant and in place.

Second, the combat is turn-based now. That's unforgivable, if Battle field can give us 24 players in a modern warfare setting with vehicles on Xbox, why can't they use 100 with just swords. Frame-rate issue? Just make Maps for each province, Like how in Modern Warfare you have Crash, Shipyard, Afghan, etc, in TES:O we should have Skyrim, Morrowind, Cyrodiil, etc. Why not allows real time combat and limits the other issues, I mean these maps should be large enough for us to explore that we should have that desire to be on the border really.

There's no longer any strategy to fights any more really, enviornment won't come in to play, timing, I don't mean to sound negative but the skill aspect of TES will be lost.

[LauZ]

Yes... the fact of "many players will have the unique ring, or be the choosen one" is what a MMO is about... let's just pray to some Divines and wait

[Giordano]

The combat's turned based? Oh boy, that is unforgivable...

That really lost my appeal to the game, honestly. In this day and age why can't the player control his character in a realistic fashion? Honestly, turned based games should be relics of the past. It's not even remotely realistic to have your opponent wait for your attack and hopes he rolls a high defense rating.

[SajuukKhar]

The combat's turned based? Oh boy, that is unforgivable...

That really lost my appeal to the game, honestly. In this day and age why can't the player control his character in a realistic fashion? Honestly, turned based games should be relics of the past. It's not even remotely realistic to have your opponent wait for your attack and hopes he rolls a high defense rating.

It isn't turn based........

[Yaije]

The combat's turned based? Oh boy, that is unforgivable...

That really lost my appeal to the game, honestly. In this day and age why can't the player control his character in a realistic fashion? Honestly, turned based games should be relics of the past. It's not even remotely realistic to have your opponent wait for your attack and hopes he rolls a high defense rating.

We haven't rolled for defenses in awhile...
Though we've had to put up with praying for those attack rolls for too damn long!

Honestly though, I'd love to see another game come out where you only need to make one character and try everything with that character. It's hard to describe, but it's sort of like Eve or Darkfall almost. The former having so many skills that just don't benefit each other, and the latter having skill decay if you refrain from using those skills.

I'm personally tired of set classes in MMO's. I'd like to see something similar to what's present in the TES single player games, but with greater attention paid to how skills/effects interact with each other. We can all easily point out places where skills meshing together just got out of hand.

[Da_BossMaN69]

Another thing with the Lore I just realized. So now we're regressing socially in TES society. I mean one of the things I loved most about these games was it's realism towards race. I mean compare it to Tolkein and you see the difference. Every Elf lives Elves and every dwarf with dwarves and etc. In TES that's not the case any race can go where he wants, I mean if we can have Elves in the damn Stormcloaks why the hell can't we have Argonians in the Aldmeri dominion. He/She should still be upset about the whole 'slavery' thing.

Also the alliances shouldn't have been what they are, a better and more intricate, though complicated alliances would have been:
-Aldmeri Dominion
-Men( Nords, Bretons, Redguards)
-Greater Morrowind (w/ conquered Argonians, them willingly giving themsleves to fight with the Dunmer is just so stupid, I'd be like the Blacks fighting for the Confederacy) with Orc's as mercenaries with Orisnium burnt to the ground they want to reclaim it and make a base in Soltheism.

Or at the very least how bout no "War". Just sporadic fighting from each race and each individual houses/clans and kingdoms with-in Tamriel.

[Skrofler]

And the names . . . if I see "xXSN1P3R451Xx," "n00bt00ber5" and "xXxXxDEMONdarknesz232536121xXx" I'll cringe. Usernames aside, I mean . . the name of your character should preferably come from an approved (and hopefully lengthy) list, depending on your race. I know it sounds a little oppressive and anti-artistic integrity, but it would be a relief to me, personally. This, too, will probably not happen.

I suppose it might happen if dedicated RP servers can hold their own numbers. WAR launched with RP servers and of course WoW still have them, but it's a question of subscription numbers. While I was on WoW I frequently reported lore-unfriendly character names and moderators took action.
Of course this would deal with the xXxnööbtrollsxXx but not with an orc named Marcus or something equally almost believable (he could be adopted after all).

[Durnehviir]

Combat is not turnbased everysingle review says so and by the way whats wrong with b2p it funds the people making the games and you don't have too pay 15$ every month also f2p is bad I once played LOTRO it took me 28hours too play it all without paying.

[Musicman247]

Hi Durnehviir,

A post in a thread where the last post has been there three months or longer is called a necropost and is covered in our Forum Rules and FAQ. Please read them, and then go on over to our Welcomes and Goodbyes thread and introduce yourself to the rest of the forums!

The payment models have been discussed before, and at the end of the day the publisher will decide which is best. I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to PM me!

Kindest regards,
Musicman