U.S healthcare bill upheld by supreme court

[Derp53]

fellow UESP'ers it has come to pass that president Obama's healthcare bill has been upheld by the supreme court, and ironically the swing vote was from a conservative justice that bush appointed during his time in office. Now I know that i'm kind of anxious to see how the new law will survive against the republican rebuke, but I also want to know your opinions.

[Derp53]

depends on which way you look at it, it's also good(i'm terrible with this stuff) because it evens out the system, right?

[Veck]

It's still a bunch of useless rubbish smeared with Republican poo, but I guess the symbolism is important here. Maybe one day rich Americans might even be willing to help pay for the poor to stop dying.

[Derp53]

the thing i noticed tho, was that this bill seems to transition america towards a socialist influence, actually Veck republicans hate this law

[Veck]

Oh, I can only dream of a Socialist America...

My point was that the Republicans have spread their crap all over this bill to "moderate" it, essentially eliminating all the good it would have done in its original form.

[Avron the S'wit]

I think it's great. First off, the bill is not horrible or "socialistic," which I was accused of being for defending it. The primary purpose of the bill is to ensure that people who have the means to get health insurance buy it and don't mooch off of government systems or fail to treat themselves. Sick people cost money and resources, and what the heck is wrong with being healthy anyway? It's preventive.

Now people say, "If you can't afford it then what? What a waste!" However, the bill will not tax you for financial hardships. Essentially:

PPACA requires individuals not covered by employer- or government-sponsored insurance plans to maintain minimal essential health insurance coverage or pay a penalty unless exempted for religious beliefs or financial hardship, a provision commonly referred to as the individual mandate.

To me it's one step closer to making sure everyone is even and has the same access to fundamental rights like healthcare. It is absurd that we live in such a rich and fruitful economy and I can't afford most healthcare. When we get to the step of making it easily accessible and affordable for everyone, then I'll get excited...but I think this is a good step in the right direction to raising awareness, if people would stop whining about political parties. It's really ignorant.

[Will Zurmacht]

ironically the swing vote was from a conservative justice that Bush appointed during his time in office.

A classic mistake. President appoints brilliant judge to SC Justice, thinking he has the ideological bias of said judge pegged, and that this bias will influence court decisions for decades. But after getting appointed and attaining life tenure (which comes standard for SC justices), brilliant judge uses brilliance to enhance dignity of court and justice system by dispensing even-handed opinions, judging each case purely on the merits and not according to preconceived political ideology. Just the way the institution should ideally work.

[Sloady]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-vi ... lth-reform

Thought this was interesting. Obama explains pretty well what the bill does - all the positives, and the one big negative.

[Mattbott]

over here we have the health service executive which over the years have been extremely inefficient to the point where in Ireland it is currently unworkable. Money is currently poured into an organisation (in Ireland) where red tape and inefficient management is killing people in the underesourced hospitals.

In the states the hospitals are built on a far more efficient business model (which is being adopted by private hospitals here) so imo Obama's scheme stands a far better chance of providing value for you taxpayers over there, even though it will of course cost a lot of money to run. So I think you guys in the states have a reason for some optimism compared with the way things have transpired here

I hope this works out cos it is one of those policies that tells a society that everyone is equal after all

[Dark Lord Cam]

The United States already has socialist influences. What's up with people hating socialism? Most folks who bash it don't even know what it is. Heck, those folks all want it!

No one wants to give up SOCIAL Security, amirite?

[Deandra]

I dunno, I see social security as something I'm going to pay a lot of money into and will probably not get a whole lot out of. I'm not saying we should get rid of it entirely, but I'm probably not going to come out ahead by having it there.

[Dark Lord Cam]

Get rid of public schools while you're at it then. What? You didn't know that was socialist? Let's go after state funded police and firefighters next! Let's make all police and firefighters privately owned! Let's fire all of our current teachers and have businesses teach our kids how to be loyal workers! Ooh, what about the freedom to vote? What about your rights? Screw them! Let's give the corporations all the power! We'll decide new leaders by whoever can make the most money for themselves. Or maybe, we'll decide by the person who owns the most houses.

Let's even give Religion a run for its money and support more Scientology-like money oriented cash cows! Capitalism!

Oh, I'm sorry. Do you like Socialism now? Too bad. You already gave up your rights. Haha!

[Veck]

Cam, stop making me like you sometimes. I always feel dirty when I do.

[House of the Wolf]

It's funny... when asked without naming the bill, roughly 82% of Americans liked everything in the bill , except the individual mandate. But when asked if they liked the Affordable Healthcare Act (by name), only 45% said they did. Wonder if Faux News and other similar influences had something to do with that....

[Deandra]

I'm hoping that wasn't aimed at me, Cam, because I was only answering your question ("No one wants to give up SOCIAL Security, amirite?") by pointing out that it wasn't good for me personally. But I'm fully aware that it (and things like public education and firefighters) are helpful to society as a whole, and I'd rather live in a world where we don't expect old people to die of starvation for having outlived their savings.

[Avron the S'wit]

Especially important in a world where we live so damn long beyond our working age. Life in the post-reproductive world - what a thriller!

And House, humans are easily influenced. Heck, if you give people the same ice cream but put half in a round container and half in a rectangular one, they always think the round container is tastier and more "premium," even if the ice cream is exactly the same. The mind is a mysterious thing!

[Dark Lord Cam]

I'm hoping that wasn't aimed at me, Cam

Nah. I just wanted to make a general point.

[Sloady]

Cam, stop making me like you sometimes. I always feel dirty when I do.

This.

[DorostheConqueror]

Psh. The government does such a great job with everything, what's the harm in expanding their purview to include life and death itself?

Why, having been injured in the military, I can tell ya first hand that state run healthcare is soooo much... no, not better... not about the same... gosh? What's that word I'm looking for? The opposite of better?

Anyways, I'm sure it'll all work out just fine.

Get rid of public schools while you're at it then.

Oh God, would if we could. But asking the state to stop educating is like asking Apple to stop advertising. When have trillion-dollar industries ever given up power voluntarily? Especially when they're heavily armed and don't have to worry about going bankrupt unless everyone else goes down with them?

It's funny how people can wangst on about "capitalism" and "how greedy rich guys run everything", then turn around and support systems that concentrate EVEN MORE power into the hands of EVEN FEWER rich guys. Rich guys who base their wealth and power not on the voluntary exchange of goods and services, but on raw, naked coercion and sophistry-drenched ethical guilt trips. Rich guys who, every one of them, also happen to keep "capitalist" jobs on the side, and who interpret "public services" as meaning "doing away with free markets by setting up a system of state corporatism and crony favoritism that privileges the worst companies they can find". Oh, but they say they've got "our best interests at heart"- how can you argue with that? Unlike, say, those evil religious folks, who say they've got "our best interests at heart"- harhar, yeah right, bozo, who's gonna fall for THAT?

Poor, gullible, religious rednecks. SIGH.

I dunno, I see social security as something I'm going to pay a lot of money into and will probably not get a whole lot out of.

Social security is a pyramid scam. Plain and simple. I really don't see why people still think this program is a "good" idea, let alone a "sustainable" one. Even it's supporters admit it's a stupid idea, their only argument is that we can just ignore it and put off dealing with it until the next generation... or the next... or the next...

I'd totally give up my "rights" to social security, in a heartbeat. We're always being admonished to cut back on our wasteful, decadent Western lifestyle right? "Make sacrifices" to preserve the environment, and natural resources, and our children's economic livelihoods, and the rights of third world workers, etc etc. I recycle, I ride a bike, and I'll take your damn social security cut, too.

But "sacrifices" are only cool when they're done in the abstract, and in such a way that the state gets to have more power and expand it's purview, right?

[Dark Lord Cam]

Cam, stop making me like you sometimes. I always feel dirty when I do.

This.

That's not a normal feeling when you agree with someone, guys. Freudian slips, much?

[DorostheConqueror]

It's not so much a Freudian slip as it is a moment of unadulterated honesty. Freudian slips occur when you mean to say one thing, but you mangle the words so it comes out sounding all sexy. That was just... well, it sounds like she meant to say exactly what she said.

[Dark Lord Cam]

You have a point.

[Sloady]

Agreeing with someone is a perfectly natural feeling, but when you make sense, then something is afoot...

[Wolf]

The only thing I know about social security is that it's one of the only government programs that's seen a consistent monetary gain. They keep saying it's going to crash, but that's because we keep borrowing from it. I think last year (I think it was last year) it had a 2 billion-dollar surplus. Other than that, I agree with Paul Krugman: deficits are not a time for austerity-- quite the opposite.

RE Healthcare: I'm not sure what to think. I do believe that some type of affordable universal healthcare is a step in the right direction, if only to chunk the fatass system we have now, but I don't know about this one specifically. However, Sweden has very high taxes, universal government-run healthcare, and one of the highest qualities of life in the world. No one there seems to be complaining too loudly.

[Frost Mage]

Who the hell cares about American politics? It won't affect you very much, if at all, and, while not helping anything as far as the economy goes, it's irrelevant to the grand scheme of things. But that's just my two cents.