A Song of Ice and Fire

[Tarquin Dynatus]

I like Stannis' strict sense of justice, I really do. In my line of work, that sort of thing is an admirable virtue. But an effective manager and leader needs charisma and the ability to make allies. Particularly so in Westeros, because it is so fragmented and everyone is scared of each other. Stannis imposes harsh punishments, burns people and intends to impose on the Westerosi a foreign religion which none of them want. His enemies from wars long ago settled (Redwynes, Tyrrels) fear him. Stannis, while a capable soldier, is abrasive, alienates people and lost the only significant battle he fought against the Lannisters at Blackwater.

Renly makes friends, heals rifts, upholds the old order which everyone wants and is generally able to charm people into his camp. He is young, energetic and experienced in the post of government.

The choice should be obvious.

[Roadcone]

He's right Renly would have been way better. But Dany is far and away the best and most capable ruler. She should and will be queen.

ADWD

Spoiler:

Dragons, Ser Barristan, Unsullied. Need i say more?

Kevan would be fail without Tywin's support. But Mace is an idiot. However Mace's house hasn't been decimated by a year of war with the riverlands and the North. He also has the Queen of thorns on his side.

So probably Mace. I could see it happening.

[Kestral]

As a person who has only read up to the first very few chapters of A Storm of Swords:

Spoiler:

The bid for king is difficult is to say. For all likeliness at the moment (to me), it seems that the Lannister have it pretty well. The Greyjoys are rebelling, again, which offsets the north. They have the assistance pledged to them by Dorne and I think Margaery Tyrell is going to be Joffrey's queen. The Northmen are in a tough spot at home and at on the field. They are out-numbered and are flanked on both sides. Both on the west, at Casterly Rock, and east at King's Landing. Though, they did get some respite with Tywell having to march to King's Landing to save it from Stannis, which would've been taken if he hadn't come.

So, we have to commanders fielding armies gearing up to strike, and that's that. Stannis does have Melisandre, so I'll see what happens, and the Greyjoys just seem to be a thorn in everyone's side, with no true hope of actually getting the throne.

But, in all honesty, the most likely one to get the throne is Mance Rayder. The Nights Watch is too undermanned, and an army of 30,000 wildlings and wargs and giants and sorts of things is a threat. Once they break through that wall, they'll pour over the kingdom. And, at the same time, the kingdom will be cursed with a long winter as the wildlings conquer and kill.

About who's the greatest leader: I dunno. Robb is cool, but knowing that GRRM will never let a good guy win, he won't ever be the king. Lannisters = [&@%!]. Stannis has the greatest right to rule, surely, but he's also kind of a jerk. Greyjoys are total jerks. Mance Rayder also will kill everyone he dislikes. Should Danaerys cross the Narrow Sea, she'll most likely kill everyone not bending a knee to a Targaryen, which is simply too many. She's a good person, but she has a great capacity to be evil.

[MARS]

Mance might take Westeros, but after that the world would change completely. We know how little people like change. There would be more wars, and in the end discipline would prevail.

[Venger]

Assuming this discussion also includes the tv series, I ask: is this a family friendly series? I have heard much of it myself, and it does sound intriguing, but I am in conflict as to whether or not I should watch the shows, with my family that is, if there is to be a... skin issue. Young'ens are prone to watch the shows with me and I want to make sure it is clean. The main trailer I watched didn't encourage me a lot in this matter, but perhaps it is a fairly infrequent event. I reasoned it to give it the benefit of the doubt and ask those who have seen it before passing judgement.

In other words, is it safe for younger audiences?

[MARS]

No. Definitely not.

[Venger]

Well dang. But thanks for the quick reply. There are always the books I suppose.

[Eltee]

Worry not, books are great.

[Tarandus]

ADwD

Spoiler:

Who do you think would be the better Targaryen on the throne Daenerys or Aegon/young Griff? Imo Aegon is better since he seems more calm and have better advicors then Dany... What are you thoughts?

[Dark Lord Cam]

Yes it is absolutely a family friendly series. You should get the entire family together to watch it. Bring your sister, you father, your mother, and all of your relatives too!

[Rose of Sithis]

Yes it is absolutely a family friendly series. You should get the entire family together to watch it. Bring your sister, you father, your mother, and all of your relatives too!

You're so late it's not even funny.

[Roadcone]

Spoiler: ADWD

Spoiler:

Aegon's biggest advantages are his army and the loyalty of Griff (Who i agree is a better advisor than Ser Jorah). However Griff will die soon, and dragons are worth a thousand armies. Dany Has Ser Barristan (who is also a good advisor), an army of unsullied and dragons, but i think the real difference is that while Aegon sees ruling as his RIGHT, Dany sees it as her DUTY. This is a point that is made many times throughout the series. Sometimes being calm can be a disadvantage, especially when you're at war.

[Tarandus]

He doesn´t have to die just becouse he has the grey thing in one finger, does he?

[The-Shadow-One]

Greyscale and it's mortal for adults not so much for children, the greyscale will spread and eventually kill Griff.. It's only a matter of time..

[Tarandus]

But if he cut hus finger off... And i still think it is best to be calm while on Campaign, didnt edmure tully make a messt off things he rashly attacked tywin on the trident

[DorostheConqueror]

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012

ARGH, THE WIGHTS! THE WIGHTS! THE HORRIBLE, BLACK HANDED WIGHTS!

Anyways...

Favourite character(s)?
Tyrion, Jamie, and Arya.

Favourite scene(s) so far?
Weasel Soup, the Red Wedding

Favourite passage(s)?
Any of Dolorous Edd's monologues, Asha and Cersei's, erm... passages. (and Moon Boy, for all I know...)

Favourite great house (or faction, since Dany and The Night's Watch aren't really houses)?
Faceless Men

Most hated character(s)?
Catelyn Stark



Also, please stop putting major spoilers outside of spoiler tags! Not everyone has read the latest book, so not everyone will be aware of "G" and "A". At least until they read this thread.

[Roadcone]

Well, it has to be a balance really doesn't it? If you're too calm your skills at making quick descisions will suffer (a very useful trait for a commander). But if you're too agressive you'll overstretch yourself and be defeated by someone a bit more level headed. It's why Tywin wins wars, he has a very good balance of both calmness and agressiveness and can call on either, when appropriate.

[Tarandus]

Well, it has to be a balance really doesn't it? If you're too calm your skills at making quick descisions will suffer (a very useful trait for a commander). But if you're too agressive you'll overstretch yourself and be defeated by someone a bit more level headed. It's why Tywin wins wars, he has a very good balance of both calmness and agressiveness and can call on either, when appropriate.

Yes now that I think about it

Spoiler:

Renly was too calm and was thus defeated by the "agressive" Stannis, who in turn was defeated by the balanced Tywin

[MARS]

Clash of Kings spoiler:

Spoiler:

Come on, no one expected what Stannis did. Mellisandre's the only reason that hardass ever managed to do anything, and no one knew about her powers before Renly's death.

I've read all the books now, and I think I can safely say that there is no ideal ruler for Westeros.

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Spoiler:

Renly was not too calm and defeated by an aggressive Stannis. Stannis being aggressive and Renly being calm had nothing to do with it.

Renly wasn't even defeated in battle. He was murdered by a force which no one could possibly have expected or been prepared for. Calm, Agressive, Happy, Sad, Scholarly, Stupid: all moods would have resulted in the same end for Renly. Renly end was entirely not his fault, and no reasonable person can put the blame on him.

People bag Renly but out of all the five kings it is my opinion that Renly was the best. Better than the cruel and simpleminded Joffrey. Better than the harsh and unlovable Stannis. Better than the feeble and short sighted Balon Greyjoy. He was even better than Rob Stark - Stark wasn't even as smart as Renly in marrying the correct house and honouring the marriage pact.

Renly is lovable, experienced in governing, prosecuted the war with a very sound strategy, politically savvy and remarkably free from personal vices. How anyone can level the blame at him for what befell him seems to me to be utterly silly.

[Tarandus]

Well he was moving his army incredibly slow he should have seized the moment when Tywin was battling Robb and marched on Kings Landing. He should also have taken advatage off Dorne´s hatred off the Lannisters to somehow bind them to his couse. And srsly why didn´t Stannis prepare the assault on Kings Landing better!?

[MARS]

Guys. These are technically spoilers. Respect those who aren't that far into the series yet.

[Roadcone]

Spoiler:

Stannis thought that taking Kings landing would be easy, so he didn't put too much thought into a proper stategy. He figured that when you have 100,000 soldiers, you don't really need a stategy beyond "Attack." But he wasn't expecting the cunning of Tyrion or for Tywin and the Tyrells to turn up halfway through.

[DorostheConqueror]

Spoiler:

Renly was a poof. Like Robert, he was great at making friends, but he lacked Robert's military brilliance. He was untested in battle, and both he and his men treated their campaign like a game. Stannis isn't the commander Robert was, either- Stannis is cautious and reserved, where Robert was bold and resourceful. But Stannis is still a tough, tenacious fighter, a perfect man to lead the reserves. Renly was just a child, all smiles and feasts and pageantry. In a sense, he was the Sansa of House Baratheon, and that cost him his crown. Besides, Renly was never a serious choice for King. The kingdom has laws, and by all the laws of Westeros, Stannis is the rightful king. At least until a proper heir of the Mad King shows up.

Of course, Stannis is only king for you kneelers. Better to ride with the King Beyond the Wall!

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Spoiler:

What do you mean by poof?

Renly didn't lose because he lacked military brilliance or because he was a poor fighter. Renly lost because a completely unpredictable force which nobody could reasonably have prepared for assassinated him. Against such a force no one can win.

As for laws, we all know exactly how effective they were in stopping the crown passing to Robert Baratheon. Laws only matter when stability is present and hierarchical power is respected.