Miami Police commit Hate Crime

[Frost Mage]

No matter how "savage" this man was, there was nothing preventing the officer from merely using his taser, or calling for backup. It wasn't like they were in immediate danger or anything, if he was as crazy as they claimed him to be, or as drugged as they claimed him to be, the poor guy probably couldn't even walk.

[cowleyj]

See page 3 if'n you please.

[DorostheConqueror]

As for you Dors, once again, I was talking about the drug being used if it were possible to remove the drawbacks.

And I could sit here and talk about a drug that makes soldiers sprout wings, breath napalm, and move so fast that they can snatch bullets out of the air with a pair of chopsticks. Beat THAT, dude who can get shot three times! This isn't "let's play pretend" here, Fire. This is a serious topic, and a serious discussion- the fact is that these drugs DO have drawbacks, serious drawbacks, drawbacks which will never be "removed" because they're part of the way the drugs operate. They might be useful for cage fighters or for mafia enforcers or for UESP moderators, but they're a class of drugs that has no place in a serious war fighting environment.

[cowleyj]

What he meant was that LSD was originally designed by the military to form, basically, super soldiers, but as you know the drugs obviously had too many side-effects for the research to progress further.

[Dark Lord Cam]

No matter how "savage" this man was, there was nothing preventing the officer from merely using his taser, or calling for backup. It wasn't like they were in immediate danger or anything, if he was as crazy as they claimed him to be, or as drugged as they claimed him to be, the poor guy probably couldn't even walk.

He was fighting with the victim prior to his death, that means that he aggressively attacked someone, ignored the orders of a police officer and was in the process of committing murder. The officer is fully justified in taking this man's life in order to save the victim.

[Fiar]

As for you Dors, once again, I was talking about the drug being used if it were possible to remove the drawbacks.

And I could sit here and talk about a drug that makes soldiers sprout wings, breath napalm, and move so fast that they can snatch bullets out of the air with a pair of chopsticks. Beat THAT, dude who can get shot three times! This isn't "let's play pretend" here, Fire. This is a serious topic, and a serious discussion- the fact is that these drugs DO have drawbacks, serious drawbacks, drawbacks which will never be "removed" because they're part of the way the drugs operate. They might be useful for cage fighters or for mafia enforcers or for UESP moderators, but they're a class of drugs that has no place in a serious war fighting environment.

Quit putting words in my mouth that I never said. I said if, not when. If implies different things than when.

And if you read further back, you'd have seen I was going off what Wolf said, though maybe I exaggerated a tad bit. It WOULD be an immediate advantage in battle if a soldier could take a couple shots more naturally than a regular human, and if it also makes them feel no pain so they can push themselves harder; than that means they can push the limits of their body.

Doros, quit being a brat and discuss something maturely.

[cowleyj]

No matter how "savage" this man was, there was nothing preventing the officer from merely using his taser, or calling for backup. It wasn't like they were in immediate danger or anything, if he was as crazy as they claimed him to be, or as drugged as they claimed him to be, the poor guy probably couldn't even walk.

He was fighting with the victim prior to his death, that means that he aggressively attacked someone, ignored the orders of a police officer and was in the process of committing murder. The officer is fully justified in taking this man's life in order to save the victim.

Indeed. The officer's remit in this situation would have been...guy attacking other guy, threaten with gun, guy doesn't listen, shoot with gun. Most likely, the officer threatened the assailant with his handgun, and when the attacker didn't obey, he had to use his gun because he had threatened with it.

[House of the Wolf]

Indeed. The officer's remit in this situation would have been...guy attacking other guy, threaten with gun, guy doesn't listen, shoot with gun. Most likely, the officer threatened the assailant with his handgun, and when the attacker didn't obey, he had to use his gun because he had threatened with it.

Not necessarily. Just because an officers pulls a gun, it does not mean he is justified in its use. The situation, itself, warranted his use of it, not him unholstering it.

[cowleyj]

Doros, quit being a brat and discuss something maturely.

Quite right sir. I have no intention of causing offence, but it's things like that, Doros, that'll cause a thread like this to be shut down.

[cowleyj]

Indeed. The officer's remit in this situation would have been...guy attacking other guy, threaten with gun, guy doesn't listen, shoot with gun. Most likely, the officer threatened the assailant with his handgun, and when the attacker didn't obey, he had to use his gun because he had threatened with it.

Not necessarily. Just because an officers pulls a gun, it does not mean he is justified in its use. The situation, itself, warranted his use of it, not him unholstering it.

Right-o, my apologies for my incorrect assertion.

[Deandra]

You don't need to make two posts if you want to quote two people. If you go to the full editor, you'll see a list (going backwards) of the last two dozen posts or so. If you click the quote button by each post, it'll insert the quoted post wherever your mouse is in the text box. That way, you can avoid double posting even if you're responding to different things.

If you already submitted a post and just want to add a thought, it's perfectly ok to go back and edit your previous post, especially if it's still the last one. You might want to add an "Edit: ______" message so that people notice you've added more.

[Dark Lord Cam]

Topic Split

[Lindai]

..LSD was originally designed by the military..

It simply wasn't. It wasn't designed at all, as its discovery was an accident. Also, LSD doesn't make you fearless or painless or aggressive(unless you had a ridiculous trip and thought someone was trying to kill you). PCP however is known to cause fearlessness, aggression and to have an anaesthetic effect. A person on LSD has better things to do than eat someone's face, like communicate with entities. I don't believe this guy was after LSD, until they confirm it scientifically.

Whether or not the officer should've killed him, I'm undecided. If the officer had a tazer on him, and didn't try using it, then the officer's a dickhead and needs his face eaten. The officer surely had a baton which with one slap to the head would've almost killed the guy. And even if he didn't, aren't these guys trained to wrestle people to the ground and handcuff them?

Now I know some people are saying things along the lines of "the officer couldn't have risked anything". Well that's a load of crap. Police officers are supposed to take some risks. Raiding a home is a risk. When's the last time a group of police officers blew up a house within which they suspected gun dealers to be living? Never. There's a risk that the officers could be shot if they raided the house, but blowing up the house would be ridiculous. Much like shooting an unarmed homeless guy.

However the victim is now in a critical condition apparently, so maybe he would've died if the officer hadn't shot when he did?

[Velothi]

invade Mexico and crush the drug cartels.

...Nevermind the fact that NAFTA destroys any social-stable system for Mexico, ruins millions from any agriculture job and ultimately kills off Mexico as able to feed itself when it buys more food than even producing it.

Or how the drug cartels typically go hand-in-hand with the US in Columbia (ah Narco-Politics, never do fail...) or how an invasion of Mexico would ruin more than do good.

But for the topic at hand - the guy died.


To fully implore what was his situation, why he was doing this or what drove him to commit this we'd have to know his back-story. Unfortunately that doesn't come when any American news station hosts this - it may come if they wish to bicker amongst each other for a more 'accurate' portrayal but it'll be bitter.

[Dark Spark]

Officers on patrol are not reknowned for investigating a situation too deeply...

"Nom! Nom! Nom! Nom!"
"Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to stop eating that man's face."
"Nom! Nom! Nom!"
"Sir, if we can just discuss this. Are you hungry? We can find a McDonalds for you."
"YAAAAAAGH!"
"Okay. Wait, was that a 'Yes'? Or just an enraged shout?"

I'm trying to imagine Agent Coulson having this conversation, but I can only imagine him immediately averting the tragedy through a well-aimed throw of Hostess Donettes and a patent leather shoe straight in the offender's face.

(I'd say he threw the powdered doughnuts. Better blinding agent than chocolate frosting.)

[House of the Wolf]

Apparently, certain users think that nomming someone alive is a human right...

Silly zombie-lovers

[Gideon Dragontongue]

You know the thread's title is largely misleading. How is this a hate crime? It's not like they shot him because of race. They shot him because he was having dinner off someones face.

This is Doros we're talking about, Scozzy. It's a joke.

[House of the Wolf]

I'm interested to see if the victim wakes up in the hospital and suddenly starts nomming away at the nurses and doctors.

[lostlast]

It's simple. A man is eating another man's face-attempted murder. Man doesn't stop (essentially committing murder) and the cops fire. Shoot, if I was a cop I would've asked once and opened fire. He wasn't home, he's homeless and probably better that they did shoot him. They put him out of his misery...and zombieism.

Finally. After reading 4 pages of blah, blah, blah.

It is just that simple.

A man is eating another man's face-attempted murder. Man doesn't stop essentially committing murder and the cops fires. (Not so much the part about being better off shot because he is homeless) But, spot on the money none the less.

Host - "And for today's winner we have...... what? Are you serious? There's nothing else back there we can give this contestant? It appears for today's winner we have brains. That's right! Lovely human brains."
Scozzar - "Really? This is so not cool"
Host - "There you go, (gritting teeth) Smiles.... big smiles for the cameras. And wave for [&@%!] sake."

Aaaaaand cut!

Host - "WTF was that?"

[House of the Wolf]

Hey Doros,

You'll be happy to know that another free spirit has chosen to eat a couple of humans. Yum.

[DorostheConqueror]

Hey Doros,

You'll be happy to know that another free spirit has chosen to eat a couple of humans. Yum.

Hearts and minds.

Anyways, THIS guy wasn't "on drugs"... but he was a young African American male, just like the other fellow. So what do we blame it on now? Hip hop music, Obama, or 4chan?

It is just that simple.

Police brutally gunning down an unarmed and clearly delirious black man just for being an uncharged suspect in a potential crime! Totally simple! I mean, what could possibly be complicated about that?

Why, if more cops would shoot possible criminals on sight, there wouldn't be any crime at all.

[Dark Lord Cam]

He was caught in the act. He also wouldn't comply with the officer's orders. The cop stopped a murder. He's a hero, not a butcher.

[DorostheConqueror]

He was caught in the act. He also wouldn't comply with the officer's orders. The cop stopped a murder. He's a hero, not a butcher.

Funny thing about the law: not complying with an officer's orders does NOT entitle him to shoot you dead. Damned inconvenient, I know, but that's how it works.

In the actual world of law enforcement, as opposed to the super fun one you see in Judge Dredd, officers are bound by law to the principles of escalation of force. It's always best to take a subject into custody unharmed, regardless of whether or not the officer "thinks" he's caught a suspect "in the act" (of what...?) Deadly force is NEVER authorized except under certain very narrow, very damned inconvenient circumstances. Basically, unless the suspect in question is ARMED, and has actively FIRED on police or bystanders, you've got to take him alive. Even in the military rules and restrictions on when and how to apply deadly force come into play, and even in the military it's rare to find an RoE (aside from "kill everything that moves") that allows you to gun down an unarmed man whose only means of posing a threat to you is his pearly white teeth. In the police, forget it. That this officer would jump from a single verbal warning straight to shooting the victim even once, let alone a half dozen times, is simply appalling!

Hell, this officer can't even defend his actions by claiming he thought the victim possessed a "concealed weapon", since the victim was naked. The only defense this officer can fall back on is the one you seem to be hinting at: pure instinctual revulsion. The "ick factor" of seeing a dude gnawing another dude's face off, overwhelming his better judgement and leading him to take the power of life and death into his own hands. But that's never an excuse to disregard the law, especially when the person breaking the law is supposed to be in charge of upholding it.

Make no mistake, this cop was no hero. While I doubt either the vigilante public or the blood-thirsty media will condemn him for his behavior, the system can, and it should. A poor black man was denied his rights- to a lawyer, to a trial, to a life in whatever capacity might be left open to him- and the man who stole that from him has to be held accountable.

[Dark Lord Cam]

The man was armed with a deadly weapon (teeth) and was in the process of eating a guy's face (murder). This is one of the few cases where I'd say the cop did the right thing. (Stopping a murder)

[DorostheConqueror]

Teeth are not a deadly weapon, Cam. You know this, I know you do. Nor does chewing on a guy's face present a clear and immediate threat to anybody involved; hell, the victim had been eating his partner for almost twenty minutes before the cop arrived, and even then the man's partner was far from faceless, let alone dead. Another ten seconds to properly subdue the victim wouldn't have made any difference at all.

Well, it would have. It would have made the policeman a hero, saved the victim's life, and prevented the tragedy this event turned out to be.