Oblivion > Skyrim

[OblivionDuruza]

For me, I agree,although I quite like the levelling system of Skyrim, the removal of attributes is something I'm not so happy about, but I will say that this was a choice in response to complaints about Oblivion's system, which forced people to feel that they needed to 'Efficiently Level'.

[Frost Mage]

Skyrim is a different game, and it's not as technical as Oblivion. That's not necessarily a bad thing per se, but it's something that differentiates it from the earlier games. While I do feel nostalgia for Attributes at times, I think the way they went with it in Skyrim was the right way to go. I hope Bethesda will learn from what they did in Skyrim, and try to have a combination of both systems from Skyrim and Oblivion in TES: VI.

[OblivionDuruza]

That's the process, constantly building on our feedback, and we can see that Skyrim went back to Morrowind in response to complaints about Oblivion in a number of ways, including Fast Travel substitutes, optional quest markers, the darker graphical style, etc.

[Frost Mage]

And I adore Bethy for that. And for the love of God, I love their taking feedback and actually changing things with Skryim that people didn't like or thought could be better.

[OblivionDuruza]

Exactly, if the game turns out to not be what we wanted, it's because our complaints weren't clear, and by our, I mean the loudest majority of the fanbase, not specifically us. That's why I disagree with threads like this, Bethesda listens, perhaps too much.

[Riothamus]

Actually leveling up. That is what I like best about Oblivion. How only select skills would level you up and you would have to sleep to do so. I much preferred that. I don't want to pick locks or pickpocket and level up if I am a warrior, in fact, I try my best to stay below Lvl. 10 as long as possible, but I never succeed.

And then if I just don't level up when I come to leveling up it forces me to do about 15 all at once. Which is why I preferred sleeping to level (and it was good for role play and awesome messages).

But don't get me wrong, I am loving the perks.

Meh.

The skill balancing was off in OB and level scaling was seriously borked. By level 30 or so you should be an unyielding juggernaut of doom but that bandit with the glass axe still gives you a run for your money? No thanks. By that time anything that is not seriously coated in magic sauce needs to be highly allergic to the end of my sword. If your name is "Bandit" I should be able to look at you and you die.

While it is kind of disappointing to see a skill get canned, streamlining does a bit for being able to make a character with a broad base of skills. That and you are leveling up as a Character, not a class, in Skyrim. If you are warrior type character and thats the way you want to go, why pick pockets and pick locks? Wouldn't that make you more hybrid warrior/thief anyway? It's adapting to how you play. That was the whole point in what they were trying to do.

[Utrechter]

I like Oblivion's armour and weaponry more. I have to say, I like both soundtracks. THe one of Skyrim reminds me a lot of Morrowind. The cities in Skyrim feel too small. The Cyrodiilian cities aren't big as well, but they felt larger. Only Solitude and Windhelm are large enough, if you ask me, and Markarth maybe, as well. The villages are done better in Skyrim. People doing nothing, drinking some mead, or working hard. It feels real. In Oblivion it's just people walking around and talking to each other. Oblivion's world felt happier and brighter. Basically, Cyrodiil's a place of happines and in SKyrim everyone's depressed. But overall SKyrim's a pretty good game, not the best, but neither was Oblivion.

[X086573]

I have the best solution in regards to the Classes of the past

keep the skill trees, skills, leveling, all that the same way it is now with skyrim, but have an Automatic recognition of your playstyle the game itself tells you your class by the ways you play.

Say i'm playing Heavy Armor, One-Handed, Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Alteration.
The game Under a "Class" heading would automatically update it Battlemage. If you play thief skills, Thief. Thief, with some magic, Rogue. Etc.

That would satisfy me, although i'm 10 happier without the classes and attributes. Make's it more streamlined and i don't have to partcularly plan out every single level to try and reach the highest level possible. I just play.

[OblivionDuruza]

Oblivion's world felt happier and brighter. Basically, Cyrodiil's a place of happines and in SKyrim everyone's depressed. But overall SKyrim's a pretty good game, not the best, but neither was Oblivion.

I agree a great deal with this analogy, Skyrim has a much grittier feel, returning to that of Morrowind after people said that Oblivion was too vibrant and fairytale-ish. There are pluses for both, and in a way, it makes a bit of sense considering that Cyrodiil is the sheltered heartland of the Empire, seeing the boon of Imperialisation and all, while the Provinces aren't so lucky, particularly in 4E200.

[Kenny_Biff]

What's the point of this thread anyway?

[OblivionDuruza]

Comparison between Skyrim and Oblivion. The Op had a number of issues with Skyrim, and thus found Oblivion to be more to his liking, and now we seem to be discussing the pros and cons of each, and also some of the reasons for the changes between games, independent of judgement, per se.

[Sznax]

My first impression of Skyrim was terrible. I didn't like it at all for the first few hours. But for every hour I play I love it more and more. I will probably never play Oblivion again (I might go back to Morrowind some time). Skyrim has so much that was missing in earlier games.

Tha landscape is more beautiful and has more staggering views. In Oblivion everything seemed very close and there were no mystical places. In Skyrim (as in Morrowind) you can discover stunning locations far up in the Mountains or deep in the forests that look really special. The dungeons are the best they've made. You can go through a dungeon in an hour without getting bored. In Oblivion you did them in 15 minutes even if they were very long. Skyrim is harder even on the easier settings. Enemy mages are really good and difficult, all enemies are wonderful. Alla misc quests are really nice. The cities are beautiful and not as similar as all Oblivions was. The barter system is significally improved. Cooking, we have cooking! The list goes on.

The things that was better in the earlier games is ofcourse the number of items available. But that goes back to the abundance in Morrowind and not Oblivion. And the guilds were way better in Oblivion, that was the best part of Oblivion. Both the DB and TG was fantastic in Oblivion. Here not that much (the DB was a big dud, the Thieves Guild was not as good as in Oblivion but not that bad, I really like the extra jobs).

Skyrim does a KO.

[Drethen]

For me, I agree,although I quite like the levelling system of Skyrim, the removal of attributes is something I'm not so happy about, but I will say that this was a choice in response to complaints about Oblivion's system, which forced people to feel that they needed to 'Efficiently Level'.

I agree with this. Having attributes govern in game ability/action provides more depth and individuality to player characters, but Oblivion was flawed because people felt they needed to bear the modifiers in mind and you'd often end up with 100 everything anyway.

Thinking about it, the better system is from the Fallouts, in the sense that we still had attributes, skills and perks, but attributes were capped when you create your character (they could, of course, be increased through skill books/gear/certain quests however)

Either that system, or something like Oblivion/Morrowind but with more of a cap on attributes would be my preference.

[Mattbott]

for me the removal of attributes is a logical step for a computer based RPG.. essentially stats and skills are all paper RPG throwbacks, we don't really need to know about them especially in an elegant system like TES where every action increases your skill level, something far to fiddly for a trad RPG. We know the values are behind the scenes working away, and we still have choices in perks, magika etc, so i think the depth is still there.. even tho we can't make a 10th level bosmer with 100 speed, there are other ways of including these RP elements through perks and powers.

it's a brave thing to do cos we gamers love to see all these little bits and tweak the numbers, but for me it's not part of the actual adventuring experience any more, and tbh it's in keeping with how they've emptied the Skyrim screen of all info except the compass and the scenery you're looking at (unless your health/maj/stamina is depleted, which is the only time you really need to see the bar) , which is great imo cos Skyrim looks so good

[X086573]

The attributes were pointless. Other than, just to be able to put points in things, they were unnessecary.

Strength goverened health, instead, they made it so you put points IN health. Its more straightfoward now. My mom has a hard time playing hard core games, getting her to play Oblivion was a nightmare. She's played Skyrim for 200 hours at least. It's more garspable now.

I'm a hardcore gamer, and i approve of what they did with the attributes. It just didn't make sense, logically i mean. Especially for a video game. Why go out of your way to make something MORE cumbersome.

It's better this way, in my opinion. But i accept that it's just MY opinion. I just DON'T want them to change it back.

[Ganonloth30]

About your comment on the soundtrack, I feel like Skyrims soundtrack is brilliant. Oblivion's soundtrack was amazing too, and made it a great game to play, but I could never understand one of the hating points for Skyrim being it's soundtrack.

[enyamerT]

I agree with Matt. I'm a old D&D gamer from way back (25+ years now), and I don't miss the attributes at all. Their only function was to add modifiers to other stats and/or skill checks, and Skyrim has covered that with perks and other mechanics.

At present, I have no desire to go back to Oblivion and Skyrim's game mechanics are a big reason why. I don't like feeling compelled to obsess over what skills to level and when so as not to gimp my attributes when it comes time to level up. In Skyrim, I can just play the style I want and the skills largely take care of themselves.

As Ma'iq says: it doesn't matter how strong or smart you are, all that matters is what you can do.

[SpikeSpeigel]

Re:attributes As far as their functionality is concerned, yes Skyrim doesn't need them. Skyrim is calculating that stuff behind the scenes.
I just miss the visual representation of every facet of my character in number form onscreen.
How many forum conversations have there been here with people discussing their Health/Magicka/Stamina? Maybe a few, but conversations regarding attributes are way more interesting to me...
Skills could then be further distilled the same way: Offensive/Defensive/Alternative (yeah, that would never happen)

Bethy bet on the fact that their removal would draw in new users more than it would tick off the veterans. They won that bet.

[Mattbott]

it's a very silly, vain thing to want, but i think the screen in the Ob character section which showed your hero in their clothes plus equipment is the main thing i miss from oblivion

playing in 3rd person to see what you look like just isn't the same

[Da_BossMaN69]

I agree a great deal with this analogy, Skyrim has a much grittier feel, returning to that of Morrowind after people said that Oblivion was too vibrant and fairytale-ish.

I have to disagree, Skyrim is definitely more gory and gritteir, but to call Oblivion almost fairy-tale like is not exactly true.m The outside world and landscape was fairytale like, but the dungeons, jesus, those things were nightmares.

There was for sure more mutilated corpses in Oblivion and litter the area with those things and you have truly gruesome images. I was always afraid of the dungeons in Oblivion and more than one occasion always jumped when an enemy ambushed me.

Now keep in my mind however I first played Oblivion when it came out which was 6 years ago, back when I was 10 so it definitely made a difference, from playing Skyrim as a junior, compared to a fifth grader, obviously the former would be less afraid, but my point still holds weight.

I feel the atmosphere of the Dungeons are better in Oblivion, but again that may be due to age, I know for a fact there is too little mutilation however to make it a scarier game, Oblivion had that down.

Also I'd like to just say I feel let down by Skyrim in the sense that what Oblivion did better was the NPC's radiant AI, I know the AI itself is better in Skyrim and probably more advanced, but they still have restricted them compared to Oblivion. I feel their attempt to make radiant story, they sacrificed the daily schedule of certain NPC's.

Some characters feel way too robotic, they hardly every do anything other than stand at their designated posts and just make passing comments. It is just a feeling right now really, I may be, and hope, I'm wrong, I know there are still schedules since I see various NPC's in the city some days and others in their homes, but there is no clear flow of what they should do. The smiths and merchants are done right (though some still don't move around all too much) but the random characters with no occupation or task, just seem to loiter aimlessly around, while NPC's actually seemed like they had places to go and be.

[Frost Mage]

it's a very silly, vain thing to want, but i think the screen in the Ob character section which showed your hero in their clothes plus equipment is the main thing i miss from oblivion

playing in 3rd person to see what you look like just isn't the same

In a way, I agree, however I think that's just the nostalgia factor more than anything else. Skyrim feels different than Oblivion and Morrowind, and it should.

[Mefris Elmek]

Oblivion's world felt happier and brighter. Basically, Cyrodiil's a place of happines and in SKyrim everyone's depressed. But overall SKyrim's a pretty good game, not the best, but neither was Oblivion.

I agree a great deal with this analogy, Skyrim has a much grittier feel, returning to that of Morrowind after people said that Oblivion was too vibrant and fairytale-ish. There are pluses for both, and in a way, it makes a bit of sense considering that Cyrodiil is the sheltered heartland of the Empire, seeing the boon of Imperialisation and all, while the Provinces aren't so lucky, particularly in 4E200.

God...,I've been feeling this for the last 100 hours of gameplay and it's like a knife in my gut.I've done all the quests countless times,walked every path,discovered all 500+ locations and I'm getting sick and tired of all this misery and bloodshed.
Prolonged walks in the Fall Forest and seeing Cicero dance has had a positive effect but for a very short time so in my pursuit
to find a cure for this sickness I thought of going to more cheerful pastures.Logically,my first toughts went to Cyrodil and I loaded my last savegame....oh boy...
I just smiled.Everything was practically screaming "LIFE" at me.The amazing colours!Birds singing,trolls farting,everything was just amazing!
It was the breath of fresh air I needed.

Thats what I miss in Skyrim.
A place to escape to when I get tired of world affairs.

[roleplayer242426]

Not to mention they are dumbing the series down. To name a few examples, Daggerfall had phobias. Next in Morrowind, it's gone. Oblivion lost countless weapons, including every ranged weapon except the bow, and armor is no longer equipted piece by piece. Some even covered your entire body. Next, we have Skyrim,..Many great skills were cut, all of the attributes were cut, classes were removed, birthsigns are changable. Honestly, in Morrowind, you had to follow signs. Oblivion quests also had a few puzzles, which is another topic I want to get into.

Spoiler:

The Mage's Guild questline had a puzzle involving spells, which was fun to crack. Made you actually feel more like a researcher for the quest.

Spoiler:

Then you have these Skyrim puzzles that literally have the answer key behind it that blatently insults our intelligence. What kind of puzzle is that, spin a 3-sided stone that has the correct imagery behind it? The College of Winterhold puzzles (and entire questline for all quests for that matter, aside from the Dark Brotherhood) were all just as poorly designed.

Now, these are just some examples. In comparison to other RPG's, Skyrim is still great. That said, it is nothing compared to the other Elder Scrolls games. In my humble opinion, all the quests focus on mobslaying and dungeoncrawling and is either "Go here and kill this" or "Go here and aquire this". Inside is a dungeon with bandits and draugers. Seems like there's less enemies, quests, and overall less enjoyable content than Oblivion and Morrowind.


Changes I'd like from Oblivion were simple, I wanted Vampire Clans back, lycanthropy back, the barter system to be like Fallout's, a levelling system like Fallout's (Skills increase specifically due to when you use them, so you can't lockpick to magically learn sword fighting, or repair equiptment to improve your agility etc.)

Things I do like about Skyrim, as I want to leave on a good note, is the fact that equiptment doesn't degrade with use. Also, the graphics were obviously a step up, though in my opinion, not a significant one.

[Mattbott]

That said, it is nothing compared to the other Elder Scrolls games. In my humble opinion, all the quests focus on mobslaying and dungeoncrawling and is either "Go here and kill this" or "Go here and aquire this".

It's not just a Skyrim thing, all computer RPGs follow this formula, in fact i'd be hard pressed to give you examples of any rpging i have ever done (whether computer or sitting round a kitchen table with fellow geeks) where it wasn't overwhelmingly "story leads you to fight, the better the story the more excitement in the fight"

the only way gameplay can evolve beyond this formula, is to include mini games which might absorb the intrepid adventurer's time - say Skyrim smithing were expanded so that different materials actually behaved differently on the smithing bench, or a thief mini game where you set up a strategic network of fences and footpads as your operation takes over a town.

Other games have added minigames to great effect - final fantasy minigames were better than many other games on their own imo, fable emotions and relationships are another great example, and ghost recon future soldier allows you to personalise your gun to an unprecedented level within a pure shooter game

so i think that's what they are doing with Skyrim, we dont need the bitty things like sound spells and 3 types of spear, the excitement is how the story invests the fights with emotion and excitement.. everything else is window dressing, and when you look at Skyrim and spend hours exploring the world, i reckon they excel at that too

[OblivionDuruza]

I have to disagree, Skyrim is definitely more gory and gritteir, but to call Oblivion almost fairy-tale like is not exactly true.m The outside world and landscape was fairytale like, but the dungeons, jesus, those things were nightmares.

I don't disagree, however, my comment was more to the effect that Bethesda made the change in direction for Skyrim as a result of the predominant view across the board about Oblivion, and one has to admit, as you say, that elements of Oblivion are vibrant, colourful, and even a little plastic at times. Basically, Bethesda does listen is what I'm saying!