Bethesda Ignored Fans?

[Trelares]

What you must also understand is the features you see in gamejam are more like the quick and dirty implementations. Some of these things need a great further effort of testing and balancing till it would fit seamless into the game.

Look at the spear, you have just 1 spear with probably only animations for the race we saw. But for a full release of spears as additional weapon you need like 7-10 different types with unique meshes and textures, than you have to balance the damage and the reach of the weapon, make fluid animations for every race that can use it. Place them on different leveled lists for loot and equip. Maybe add also some perks only effecting spears? And finally you need a big amount of testing to cover any kind of bugs.

This adds up together till some quick implemented features are really fit to put into the game.

[Mattbott]

not sure if "unfinished" is fair on them tbh, esp since TES games usually have more gameplay in their little fingers than many SP games have in a few playthroughs.

definitely we have a vanilla Skyrim game now and look forwards to chocolate sauce, sprinkles, sparkler and flake going in over the next months/years

I would be annoyed if bugs destroyed the game for me, like many gamers experienced (esp PS3) and i am not too keen on the short modular questlines, but i am prepared to replay it and plan on pick n mixing my quests on latter playthroughs to fill them out, eg run with two plots at once to 'epic up' the whole experience - broken quests and bugs are a risk there but the wiki is good at giving a heads up

but then again don't think there are any games out there that don't need a little perseverance to get the best out of them, esp games as big as skyrim. I think what a lot of people didn't consider when they were comparing Mw with Ob is the visuals in the later TES games is so much better than Mw due to technological advances, that the experience has shifted away from story / lore to a more atmospheric/cinematic one and i am happy with that cos they retain a lot of content with the style imo

for me the spear is the only gamejam feature i'd really love to see added - because i would seriously build a character around it unlike the other bits n pieces - except maybe a goblin hunter. I hate goblins (found some torture tools in the DB story last week, i could have a goblin prison.. hmm)

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

Even I have to complain about the lack of spears, because spears do exist in the ES universe! (Possibly the first and probably the last time that book gets cited as lore )

I mean, in the development of weapons, it probably went fist, club, spear. A spear is literally just a sharp stick. To leave them out is actually kind of unrealistic, it'd be like leaving out wheels or some other really common object.

[rpbraley868]

I for one would love spears. Especially if they were one handed. Nothing else screams DRAGONSLAYER to me, than a shield in one hand, spear in the other. We could go 300 on Alduins ass

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

There should be spears for one handed and polearms for two handed, mirroring the other weapon types.

[Breton Wind]

I would so dearly love to Shout while horseback.

[X086573]

Bethesda delivers everything i'd wanted. Spears are extra, why gripe "no spears".

They made a game that you literally can't "beat", and you complain about the lack of spears? Please!?

[MathiasFlynnias]

Bethesda delivers everything i'd wanted. Spears are extra, why gripe "no spears".

They made a game that you literally can't "beat", and you complain about the lack of spears? Please!?

If by 'can't beat' you mean I have endless quests in which I retrieve pointless items for the same people, than yes, you'd be right. I guess people complain because it is something that was once there and taken out. I'd understand what you are saying if they were never there at all.

[X086573]

Hitler was once there, then taken out.

No but seriously, i love spears, i'd love to use spears, but skyrim has SO much, i don't see the point about complaining over what it doesn't have. I'm happy with being content.

[MathiasFlynnias]

It's different if you add something and nobody liked it, like Hitler

If you didn't complain, you don't get I suppose. And we have seen from Gamejam that they can implement them, it's just seeing how loud we can get until they actually do!

[X086573]

But instead of complaining about what isn't there, how about asking for more.

Like, "hey thanks for the awesome game Bethesda. Now that you're done making it, how about throwing us some spears?"

see, not complaing, just asking for seconds. Plus, it's more polite and bethesda is more likely to take it into consideration. As opposed to "gah! No spears! I hate you!"

i get what you're saying about hitler, though. Everyone loves spears, everone hates hitlers. 'cept nazis, but they suck anyway.

[Imperfect Three]

Basically: yes. Skyrims game data is pretty much identical across all three versions, just the actual program code being rewritten for the different platforms. Making two different versions would take a lot more resources.

Edit: also, I'm GLAD Beth ignore its "fans", as I have literally never seen a group of fans as hateful as TES fans, excepting possibly Final Fantasy fans. Seriously, on this forums first page I count five threads complaining about Skyrim, and how it's awful because it's not morrowind with a new map.

If Bethesda listened to its "fans", they'd have committed mass suicide years ago.

This right here is exactly how I feel. I barely come onto the forums anymore because I'm tired of seeing several different "This is why I hate Skyrim and think Bethesda should make their games exactly how I want them." threads.
I can understand that some people are angry about things such as: crossbows, medium armor, spears and such being removed. But there is no reason to complain on forum sites about the removal of these things. Instead the users complaining should write an email to Bethesda to let them know about their reason for being displeased and asking them if they might add/fix it in future DLC/Updates.
I also see a lot of "Why isn't Bethesda adding all of these GameJam things in?!?!", but they are so far we have recieved sevral fixes as well as (For the first time) brand new content in a regular game update. New kill-cams AND the soon to be added Kinect Integration which were both shown in Gamejam.

[X086573]

That's almost what i just said except different. I agree. Indeed.

I'm gonna start a videogame company and only do a game that the fans want. It'll be a multiplayer game with spears, crossbows, housecats, tanks, housecat mounts, a hardcore mode that if you die, you have to buy a new copy of the game, and 7 types of classes for armor, but you can stack the armor on top of each other.

The classes will be :
unarmored
light armor
lighter than light armor, but heavier than unarmored medium armor
comfortably heavy armor
obnoxiously heavy armor
and your charcter is now a cement block... Armor...Cream...

I don't know why though.

[OblivionDuruza]

What you must also understand is the features you see in gamejam are more like the quick and dirty implementations. Some of these things need a great further effort of testing and balancing till it would fit seamless into the game.

This is quite true, and from the kill cams implemented by patch 1.5, particularly the Magic ones, there's some evidence to suggest that these kill cams needed even more work to perfect, as some are not exactly superb, as most of the Melee cams have been.

Bethesda could work for years on a TES game, they already do. But you get to the point were the fans get sick of waiting and complain, and you have to consider budgets and the money side of things too. To make a perfect TES game would be a never-ending process, we get the mid-point between artistic level perfection, and a 'rushed job'. We get a totally reasonable game which we all spend hours playing and enjoying, despite our complaints, and we should be happy with that, but by the same token, we should expect, and hold Bethesda to, a high level of quality, but not an unreasonably idealistic one.

[HonningbrewMAX]

I wasn't intended to be a hate thread. I love Skyrim

I just wondered if people thought Bethesda ignored fans

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

Yes, and Im glad they did.

[TiberSeptimsGrandma]

I'm focusing on equipment content, so keep that in mind.

That being said, I don't know how anybody would complain about crossbows, medium armor, spears, etc? Is there any sort of reason why these weren't included, besides "not enough time"?

Because one a lot of those weapons are very redundant, there's no need for spears and whatnot when you have all these other awesome weapon types, and two, a crossbow would be completely unrealistic. It takes massive strength to reload a crossbow and in a combat situation you could probably get off one bolts before the enemy got to you, as opposed to having a bow, where you can get off 5 arrows if you're good.

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

Historically, crossbows were only really effective in massed volleys, I believe.

[Mattbott]

crossbows allowed plebs to pick up a weapon and shoot it, that's why they replaced longbows, anyone could fire them and the bolt would do consistent damage to the target

longbows (any bow) take a lot of training to use

Spoiler:

(lol apologies for repeating myself over theads, but a welsh longbowman took 10 years to train up)

, and crossbows appeared at a time where it was more practical to go down the easy use path. They're a lot like guns in that way

this is the main reason why i prefer the idea of longbows than crossbows in TES, there's a skill involved (hence i'd find it difficult to assign perks to crossbows as the effectiveness would be more in the skill of the xbow manufacturer than the user, but that's just me).

it also makes perfect sense to me that a world where it's relatively easy to firebolt someone (with a staff, or with your own magic) and do 10 - 20 damage, why bother with a xbow at all (unless you are a master poisoner with a fear of bows and arrows)? They would seem to be the poor man's choice of missile weapon

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

The lack of spears, however, does trouble the suspension of disbelief: as I said earlier, spears were one of the first weapons after rocks and clubs. They were way more common than swords in real life.

[OblivionDuruza]

However, looking at the Spear combat from GameJam, perhaps the issue with spears was in regards to the animations involved/required, in addition to other factors? perhaps it was felt that Spears could not be implemented to a standard Bethesda was satisfied with?

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

Probably, but I'd still like them.

[ArgonianDunmer]

I wasn't too fussed by the lack of Spears or Crossbows to be honest. Skyrim has a large variety of weapons as it is, and although more is always nice, I don't know how significant it really is.

[SithisIsMyCopilot]

I dunno, I think spears would make a nice addition to skyrim. Maybe a perk for a special spear only jumping attack...

I can dream, can't I?

[roleplayer242426]

Well, certain things just should have existed. If someone doesn't like it, it's as easy as "don't do it". If someone doesn't like spears crossbows etc. then simply don't use it. They should have been added in, because it couldn't of hindered anyone's gameplay. Next in line, why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Either be a fanslave or shaft them entirely? They are the professionsals, so their opinion does indeed matter more. We are the fans and our wallet is what pays for the company. So find a middle ground in my opinion. Fit in customer demand where you can, and ignore it when it'd do more harm than good. That's not at all what they did. They simply dumbed the game down again. Did they ignore us? No, they listened too much. Again, they know how to program amazing games. As a roleplayer, I in large part felt ignored so the dungeon crawlers and mobslayers got what they wanted in the game, whereas Oblivion and Morrowind had something for everyone in my opinion. Not to cut Skyrim down, it's still great in it's own way. I just think balance is a necessity here.