Something you hated about Morrowind? (bizzare, right?)

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

*To all die-hard morrowind fans*
This topic is not for the faint of heart and those who are going to blindly bash me for expressing my opinion because you cannot accept that a game you love (and I love too) happens to have flaws. I am not here to argue. I am just here to express myself and hopefully find others that agree. Thank you.

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Hello All. I created this topic to openly express my opinion (I know im going to get hated for this) about what I disliked about Morrowind. Oh and by the way I will not be including spoilers to the main story or game just in case any may care. Dont get me wrong, I loved morrowind, It was an amazing game with a fun storyline and excellent atmosphere. Though just a few things killed it for me and heres what:

[1. Horrible Magic System]
I must say the magic system in Morrowind is just laughable. I tried playing a mage once, oh yes I did. Destruction magic is probably the worst thing you can have at your side. First of all, it takes like half an hour to cast one spell, meanwhile, the enemy is happily slashing away at your hopeless self while you try to cast a spell that has a 1% chance to succeed. And what to do if a spell fails? Try again, only to fail miserably again and again and again. Even with a high starting magic the chances to cast a spell are prepostorus. If I were creator I would remove the whole chance system and instead replace it with other incentives to make you train your magicka skills (aka higher spell damage or effectiveness) like in oblivion. I mean, its enough doing the annoying animation by putting your arms together for like 5 seconds but it just kills me when it fails. God, why Morrowind!

[2. Clunky game mechanics]
Jumping in this game is just plain useless. When you jump, you move about 1 inch above the ground and hear a loud thump. And even with a high acrobatics I found jumping just as annoying. Not to mention half the time you jump you either get stuck in a rock or end up plunging 50 feet down a cliff and dying due to this games horrible mechanics. I know this was bethesdas first 3d rpg or whatever but come on! Also, there is no gravity (besides the horrible jumping) If I drop an Item in this game it just magically ends up on the ground, If I paralyze an enemy they dont laughably roll over to their doom. They just sit there like a statue motionless. And the running... Oh my god, you should be able to jog without your fatigue dropping to near death levels. I understand all the heavy armor and anything, but moving more slowly should suffice that instead.

-update-
[3. Some skills are impossible to level]
When I say this I don't mean literally impossible. But I cannot seem to level Block or Enchanting enough. Leveling these skills is extreeeeemely slow. Blocking only happens by chance and enchanting requires alot of effort and souls due to the scarcity of soul gems and materials in Morrowind, plus the chance to fail. It just does not work out I swear.

I think I will stop here I don't mean to spread hate about the game, again, I still love this game and it is great. These are just a few flaws (or more than a few) I picked out. Besides, I dont have much reason to complain. I play Morroblivion now! Let me know what you all think. Please include anything you'd like to add and please contain your rage if you have any.

[ZeRoc]

Things I hated huh? I'm gonna have to think about this...

Hmm...
This is hard...
It'll take a while...
Nope, nothing...

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

Thank you for sharing your incredibly biased opinion. Though this dosen't seem to support this topic at all. Maybe people love the game so much that they look right past the flaws. I honestly think you could have written more, perhaps WHY this game is super-mega-ultra awesome with no problems whatsoever instead of blatantly stating something for the point of [&@%!] me off... I swear....wait.... I must hold back....erp....why...you.... anyways I look forward to some more INTERESTING opinions if I do say so myself. No mean to be rude but dont expect something happy and joyful for something as lame as that.

[ZeRoc]

...you acknowledge that all of those are links, and it was sarcasm, right?

Beyond that, I see your point about the Magic system. When I was younger I never got the point of magic, thinking "why can they shoot fireballs all the time, but my character always fails?" I suppose that it makes sense for you to not cast a spell properly, but it just doesn't work in combat situations for your fire attack to fail. Don't forget having to, as I referred to it as a kid, "get your hands out." Magic was, and still does, seem like a hassle to me.

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

Ahh my mistake for the hostile mood and all. I've been very defensive lately and sarcasm as usual fails hard when conveyed in text, lol. Well thank you for your opinion I appreciate it and must agree.

[ZeRoc]

It's alright, one of the major things that bother me is the combat system in general.
Me- "Booya!, I just hit you in the head with my massive war-hammer!"
*enemies health didn't fall*
Enemy- "Ha! You missed!"
Me- "How the heck did that happen!?"
*Enemy hits me with their Daikatana*
Me- "DANG IT!"

[DarkEastwood]

The terrible animations, how much the game relies on stamina (and how quickly it falls), the infamous combat, the crappy magic system, the lack of voice acting, the clunky journal, the crampd inventory, the super slow leveling, the annoying enemies, the NPC's faces, the horrid game sounds, and pretty much every skill was botched IMO.

[logan1]

--As a third grader, the text-based conversational system annoyed me for a couple of years until my textual analysis skills got better.

--Lack of schedules/NPCs never move from their spot (I hated this even before Oblivion came in with it)

--Every character was a developer's sleeper cell implanted with mass amounts of information with the click of even one topic. How realistic. Wouldn't it be grand if every time I approached someone, I could get a down-to-the-dates lesson on early American History?



I know people complain about the graphics being choppy, but I found them quite revolutionary for their time. It by far wasn't the best game graphics-wise up there, but for the year it was released in, I found it mindblowing when I first bought it.

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

Lol you guys have interesting opinions! I agree with all of them but don't forget when you encounter a so called "Ashlander" in the game.

Spoiler:

*Clicks on so called "Ashlander" NPC* Ashlander: Me no speak well, am Ashlander, sorry? *Ask about rumors* Ashlander: *speaks perfect english without a single flaw* wtf!? lol

[OblivionDuruza]

For me, I guess one of the bigger gripes is also something I've come to see as pretty good, and that is running in the game. The player character moves so goshdarn slowly that you have to run everywhere, and this drains that precious Fatigue. I believe this was done to stop us getting stuck in walls and what not, and it also has the added effect of making Vvardenfell seem and feel bigger, but even so, it's rather cumbersome after a time. I tend to find I use a smiple little mod that increases the PC's base speed, alongside a Mod that doubles Encumbrance (because I'm a hoarder and I like not having to worry as much about being over encumbered in a system like Morrowind's - Skyrim's is so much better, IMO, although the loss of Strength and the sole reliance on Stamina kinda sucks, in a way, in others ways not so much). Clearly Bethesda addressed this by removing Fatigue from the equation in Oblivion, rather than making the PC move faster (although I believe the Oblivion PC does move faster as well), but the issue I have with this solution, is that it makes a fair amount of sense for Fatigue to have an effect on you in combat, and in principle I like this element of the game, if not so much in practice. It's a tricky on I guess.

[Dean]

[1. Horrible Magic System]
I must say the magic system in Morrowind is just laughable. I tried playing a mage once, oh yes I did. Destruction magic is probably the worst thing you can have at your side. First of all, it takes like half an hour to cast one spell, meanwhile, the enemy is happily slashing away at your hopeless self while you try to cast a spell that has a 1% chance to succeed. And what to do if a spell fails? Try again, only to fail miserably again and again and again. Even with a high starting magic the chances to cast a spell are prepostorus. If I were creator I would remove the whole chance system and instead replace it with other incentives to make you train your magicka skills (aka higher spell damage or effectiveness) like in oblivion. I mean, its enough doing the annoying animation by putting your arms together for like 5 seconds but it just kills me when it fails. God, why Morrowind!

It's hardly 5 seconds, takes about 2 maximum to cast them. Seeming magic is so bloody strong in this game, it's well worth it in my opinion.
The chance system actually makes sense if you ask me, I mean being able to continuously and successfully spam fireballs when you are knackered is preposterous. I find it hard enough to make a sandwich when I'm half dead...
I believe Morrowind is more for people who have patience, I'm not bashing the later games as I really do love them, but they are more about being able to run everywhere, and kill everything without having to take a breather.
At later levels the chance system no longer really matters that much, at around 70 in any magic school you will cast most spells successfully 90% of the time. I'm not saying 'all' obviously' but being able to cast the most powerful destructive spell in the game repeatedly should not be an easy feat to achieve anyway.

[2. Clunky game mechanics]
Jumping in this game is just plain useless. When you jump, you move about 1 inch above the ground and hear a loud thump. And even with a high acrobatics I found jumping just as annoying. Not to mention half the time you jump you either get stuck in a rock or end up plunging 50 feet down a cliff and dying due to this games horrible mechanics. I know this was bethesdas first 3d rpg or whatever but come on! Also, there is no gravity (besides the horrible jumping) If I drop an Item in this game it just magically ends up on the ground, If I paralyze an enemy they dont laughably roll over to their doom. They just sit there like a statue motionless. And the running... Oh my god, you should be able to jog without your fatigue dropping to near death levels. I understand all the heavy armor and anything, but moving more slowly should suffice that instead.

You do realise this game is coming up to 10 years old right? gravity and things like that would have been nice, I agree with you, but it wasn't really one of those things aimed for in games back then. I mean, you barely had a basic shadow system in those days.
As for the jumping, at around 50 Acrobatics(really easy to get to in all TES games) you can jump all over the place... so much fun jumping up on Daedric ruins and making leaps of faith off the top of buildings etc... I love it. Can't say I get stuck in rocks all the time either, hasn't happened to me in years and if it does it's not exactly game breaking... or you would of got [&@%!] off with Oblivion within the first few weeks of playing it(which most people, including myself, didn't).

Fatigue loss is realistic just like the spell chance. I personally prefer realism... to a certain extent anyway. I can't stand the whole 'must eat every couple of hours, and get a good nights sleep' type of realism, but easily controllable I like.

Take note I'm not actually bashing the reasons why you hate and I do hope you realise that, just giving reasons of my own why some people may actually like the things you hate. I'm more then fine with people not liking parts of the game, we all like different things am I right? of course I'm right. It's not like you just slated every part of the game like some people do, and your reasons are understandable as I see quite a few people with similar views.

The terrible animations, how much the game relies on stamina (and how quickly it falls), the infamous combat, the crappy magic system, the lack of voice acting, the clunky journal, the crampd inventory, the super slow leveling, the annoying enemies, the NPC's faces, the horrid game sounds, and pretty much every skill was botched IMO.

Why do you give a game you pretty much hate 90% of the time of day then? that seems a bit ridiculous, especially since you started playing it again.

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Anyway, the only things that annoy me in Morrowind are small ones like the fact that even the little critters want to take a chunk out of my legs. A tiny rat or a single fish should not really be that suicidal, one of the reasons I am forced to use a mod that makes them unhostile unless they are Blighted(lore wise animals go mad when Blighted).

Another one would be not being able to raise my shield on my own, but I can live with that one as it works pretty well passively anyway.

[dzio]

There's nothing I hate about Morrowind. There are some minor annoyances (like cliff racers, not being able to use poisons, slow running, cliff racers, no schedules for NPCs, and cliff racers), but I certainly wouldn't say I hate them (even the cliff racers). If something in a game [&@%!] me off to the point where the word "hate" is appropriate, I just don't play it.

[DarkEastwood]

The terrible animations, how much the game relies on stamina (and how quickly it falls), the infamous combat, the crappy magic system, the lack of voice acting, the clunky journal, the crampd inventory, the super slow leveling, the annoying enemies, the NPC's faces, the horrid game sounds, and pretty much every skill was botched IMO.

Why do you give a game you pretty much hate 90% of the time of day then? that seems a bit ridiculous, especially since you started playing it again.
[/quote]
I never said I hated the game. As of now these are MY problems with it, initially. Remember, I've only played about 10 hours of it and these are the things I hate SO FAR. I'm trying to be open minded about it and I'm sure as I progress that list will get smaller but as of now these are currently the things I hate. Sorry if I came off condescending.

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

It's hardly 5 seconds, takes about 2 maximum to cast them. Seeming magic is so bloody strong in this game, it's well worth it in my opinion.
The chance system actually makes sense if you ask me, I mean being able to continuously and successfully spam fireballs when you are knackered is preposterous. I find it hard enough to make a sandwich when I'm half dead...
I believe Morrowind is more for people who have patience, I'm not bashing the later games as I really do love them, but they are more about being able to run everywhere, and kill everything without having to take a breather.
At later levels the chance system no longer really matters that much, at around 70 in any magic school you will cast most spells successfully 90% of the time. I'm not saying 'all' obviously' but .

I understand your point of view on the time to cast as some people don't mind waiting, but the chance system is still horrible. It dosen't even make sense in the lore either. This is the only game where the chance system is actually utilised. I actually like the idea of being able to spam spells because most of the really good ones drain up so much gosh darn magicka it dosen't really matter anyway. Morrowind I think might be for people with more patience with not just the slowness of the game but the general frustration because half the game (or should I say all of it) is run off of a chance system based on your skill. Which makes leveling EXTREMELY slow if you can't hit a damned thing with your sword lest level up your weapon skill! Who has the patience to get too a higher level when the chance system is there. Daggerfall was tolerable, but Morrowind is just too much. I completely disagree with you saying other ES games are more about being able to "run everywhere and kill everything without taking a breather". WHAT? If Elder Scrolls was that easy i'd be level 20 at the start of the game. Its not about running everywhere and killing everything at all. First of all running everywhere and killing everything certainly is possible if you are a high level, but I fail to see the difference from Morrowind and Oblivion in this statement. They both involve running everywhere and killing everything. Hell, every two seconds I walk I run into a Scrib and kill it. Second of all, taking a breather? I still dont understand what you mean. If you call swinging and missing at an NPC standing motionless you are clearly mistaken. "Being able to cast the most powerful destructive spell in the game repeatedly should not be an easy feat to achieve anyway" I must agree with you on this, it shouldn't, but there are better ways at doing this than the chance system.

You do realise this game is coming up to 10 years old right? gravity and things like that would have been nice, I agree with you, but it wasn't really one of those things aimed for in games back then. I mean, you barely had a basic shadow system in those days.
As for the jumping, at around 50 Acrobatics(really easy to get to in all TES games) you can jump all over the place... so much fun jumping up on Daedric ruins and making leaps of faith off the top of buildings etc... I love it. Can't say I get stuck in rocks all the time either, hasn't happened to me in years and if it does it's not exactly game breaking... or you would of got [&@%!] off with Oblivion within the first few weeks of playing it(which most people, including myself, didn't).

Fatigue loss is realistic just like the spell chance. I personally prefer realism... to a certain extent anyway. I can't stand the whole 'must eat every couple of hours, and get a good nights sleep' type of realism, but easily controllable I like.

"You do realise this game is coming up to 10 years old right? gravity and things like that would have been nice, I agree with you, but it wasn't really one of those things aimed for in games back then. I mean, you barely had a basic shadow system in those days." Completely understandable. But I like to complain, you see, it just kills it for me and can drain from the immersion in the game espescially if you have played the later ones.

"Fatigue loss is realistic just like the spell chance. I personally prefer realism... to a certain extent anyway. I can't stand the whole 'must eat every couple of hours, and get a good nights sleep' type of realism, but easily controllable I like"

Fatigue loss is realistic but being able to jump 500 feet over a castle wall isn't. I understand, im just starting a friendly argument just like you are. I look forward to a response (If you have one that is.

[svknight]

Why do you guys complain about a 10-year old game's mechanics? It was designed with the current generation at that time in mind and not yours. At that time, most RPGs followed dice-based system which is CHANCE/LUCK based. If they removed the chance system on magic, they probably would just increase the magicka cost of spells depending on your current skill level. That doesn't sound good especially since magicka doesn't regenerate and magicka potions are scarce. Sure the game is slow at start, but the progression gets faster and faster as you level up. And realism? THIS IS A FANTASY! Sheesh. Anyways, that's my two cents.

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

Why do you guys complain about a 10-year old game's mechanics? It was designed with the current generation at that time in mind and not yours. At that time, most RPGs followed dice-based system which is CHANCE/LUCK based. If they removed the chance system on magic, they probably would just increase the magicka cost of spells depending on your current skill level. That doesn't sound good especially since magicka doesn't regenerate and magicka potions are scarce. Sure the game is slow at start, but the progression gets faster and faster as you level up. And realism? THIS IS A FANTASY! Sheesh. Anyways, that's my two cents.

I'm only complaining for the sake of complaining I like to hear peoples opinions on this sort of thing. Besides, I play "Morroblivion" (An Oblivion mod that recreates Morrowind with Oblivions engine) so I have no problems. Who dosen't like a touch of realism? Even I do. Realism immerses me into the game more, but thats just me.

EDIT: About the chance and luck thing, many games did it much much better that Morrowind (ex. Daggerfall's melee combat). Besides I dont mind having an increased magicka cost. I'd rather have that instead of a chance to fail a spell. With a High Elf I could still bomb through the game due to their naturally high magicka.

[OblivionDuruza]

I actually like the Chance to fail To Cast, and I find it both more realistic and a better game mechanic, in a way. Basically, in Oblivion, you just couldn't cast spells that were 'too difficult' at all, but in Morrowind you could still try them without having to level a particular skill just so you could cast a spell, and you could succeed given persistence and/or enchantments and potions, etc. Granted, I think Skyrim does it somewhat better in relation to spell cost, better than Oblivion anyway and more player friendly than Morrowind, but even so, I don't see it as an inherently flawed system of Magic.

As for the dice roll combat, as I mentioned previously, I like it for what it is, and it really does give you a sense of becoming much more powerful and skilful as a warrior as you increase your skills, attributes, level and fatigue. A rather natural and realistic sense of progression, IMO.

[ZeRoc]

Which can get especially irritating when you're an archer...

[scribbane]

As for the dice roll combat, as I mentioned previously, I like it for what it is, and it really does give you a sense of becoming much more powerful and skilful as a warrior as you increase your skills, attributes, level and fatigue. A rather natural and realistic sense of progression, IMO.

I think so many people hate the combat because nothing is more irritating when you're hitting them, but you're not.

It's frustrating when you first start playing I think. I remember all those years ago getting annoyed by that very quality of the game. Now, I understand why it happens and how to work around it. I understand that its actually supposed to represent the enemy dodging out of the way. In Skyrim, enemies can move out of the way in combat, actively block, and counterattack. This was represented in Morrowind by missing attacks. I don't get any more frustrated by missing a swing than I do when a bandit sidesteps in Skyrim.

[OblivionDuruza]

I agree totally, especially coming from Oblivion to Morrowind, at first I was really frustrated by the constant missing, but this is why I invested in Agility early and after you get a few levels on the board, and more importantly, get your weapon skill up, it's not too big a concern .

[OblivionDuruza]

True, which is why I like to start with at least one weapon skill as close to 40 as possible (normally one my race has a racial bonus with, normally Long Blade or Short Blade depending on my specialisation as a predominately Dunmer player), with Block in the same 30+ vicinity if I choose it, and my armour skill normally a minor skill, as it doesn't have the same dice roll and can be levelled fairly easily.

[scribbane]

The "awful mechanics" of the game actually all come together to make one of my favorite aspects of the game. We've touched on it a little bit, but its the sense of power and achievement you get as you progress. You can actually see a difference in fighting enemies at different levels as you have increased your characters stats. Cliff racers used to take 8 hits, now they take 1. A 20 minute fight with a lot of potion chugging is reduced to a straight up brawl that's over in a minute. By the end game, you feel like a powerful hero, not just the only person in the country that knows how to jump.

[OblivionDuruza]

Yeah exactly right, like I said, it feels like a natural progression. You don't just pick up a sword and master the skill, it takes time, but when you do few can match you. That's the beauty of not only the static, non-scaled system and the chance based game mechanics.

[LongLiveTheEmpire]

Hmm It seems MOST of these posts are criticising MY specific views on the game. Ahhh whatever I created the topic anyways. Besides I expect to face some opposition considering im on an Elder Scrolls forum pointing out flaws in a game. I wish I could answer each individual person but this is getting overwhelming @_@ lol keep em coming guys! This topic is HOT XD

[scribbane]

Then there's that unleveled system Who remembers getting their butt handed to them in the cave outside Seyda Neen? I do XD

Haha, too right. I will say one thing, you always know your limits in Morrowind. The game lets you know really quickly if you're out of your league.