yodah wrote:We just had a drug search today. Basically involves a hour and a half lockdown of the entire school, while the police come in and let some dogs loose. Three seniors got busted and expelled, about two months before their graduation. ...Idiots.
Ah, the good ol' prison-industrial system succeeds again. Looking at it one way, you could say that they were expelled two months before graduation. Or, looking at it another way, you could instead say that they graduated two months earlier than everyone else. After all, the public school system successfully accomplished it's mission of churning out productive slaves for the State machine, and they did it two whole months ahead of schedule! Who says bureaucracies aren't efficient? All that time those kids spend making license plates, cleaning up highways, and giving social rehabilitation officers an excuse to keep drawing a wholly tax-funded paycheck, is just money in the bank for your collectivist God-kings!
gg, system. gg.
Now put 'em in juvie with the violent offenders so they can start "college"!
ZeRoc wrote:Once in my English class last year a girl sat down in a desk, and the chair broke. The substitute, who is probably 70, said completely deadpan, "well, maybe you shouldn't be so fat." Cue shock from everyone in the class. (save me who was about to laugh his head off, and the girl wasn't even fat.)
Our school chairs break easily. The sides of the seats are cheap plastic with no support, I bashed my head against a desk when I sat on a cracked one and it snapped.
Hey, I'm not trying to derail the thread; the prison-industrial system is what it is. Simple as that.
I've been caught in a major drug shakedown, too; a few of 'em, actually. The worst wasn't even when I was in school... well, sort of. AIT in the Army, which I guess counts as school. We had drug passes every day for like a week straight; at one point we had to stand outside in formation for five hours while the MPs brought their dogs around to sniff everything in a mile radius; our barracks, the woods, our buttcracks, every last inch. The next morning we all had to take pee tests, and they didn't let us use the bathroom at all from about six in the evening until well past noon the next day. Standing in line, waiting for the [&@%!] test, having it postponed another hour over and over again as the NCO in charge of the screening setup kept fraking things up... man, that SUCKED. HARD. I was literally peeing blood the next couple days. Almost makes me wish I did drugs, just so I'd earn all that BS. If you're gonna get treated like a criminal anyway, might as well have fun first, right?
I think those drug searches are a violation of rights, and I'm not just saying that because I'm involved with drugs.
I understand that you lose all your rights in a school building, but I don't think searches like that should be warranted unless they have cause for reasonable suspicion.
Hello, my name is Stanley, That talking grapefruit from Passwall.
All hail the vikings and their gods and Odin and Freya and I hope you all make it to Valhalla eventually
Why would you "lose all your rights" in school setting? Especially one that you've been coerced into attending? Rights aren't there to be respected when it's convenient, then ignored by the state when they want to force you into line; rights are there to protect citizens from the state (and each other, although guns can fill that gap too). I know a lot of people say "Oh, you lose your rights when such and such", but I've yet to see a really convincing argument for why this is the case, beyond the exercise of pure naked power and arbitrary circular constructivism. The unthinking acceptance of which, of course, is a major part of the reason why politicians decided to institute compulsory education in the first place.
That said, in my experience, the cops usually do have reasonable cause before they sic the drug dogs on high-school students. Operations like that cost time and money, so unless it's a real slow day down at the station, Officer Sniffy and pals wait until they've got grounds to search- usually a tip from a narc or something like that. For me, the issue isn't so much whether they have probable cause, it's whether they have just cause- one stemming from a just, liberal, and constitutional law.
Last edited by DorostheConqueror on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Coercion is force, although the word itself implies a wide range of force, from simple "suggestions" backed by threats, to outright and direct applications of violence.
Granted, I don't see too many schoolkids getting busted over the head by Teacher's Union gangs for not showing up on time, but compulsory education is coerced education all the same.
As for the element of "social failure" (if you don't go to school, you won't get a job! Don't get a job, and you won't pat taxes!), well yes, in a sense that IS a form of pressure. But it's not strictly coercive, because in and of itself the choice of action is still ultimately up to you. It's "voluntary"; you go to school, if you want to be a success. It's when you start forcing someone to go to school, regardless of whether or not he wants to be a success, that the coercive pressure starts.
DorostheConqueror wrote:Why would you "lose all your rights" in school setting? Especially one that you've been coerced into attending?
There's always homeschooling. /snark
But on a real tip, plenty of people drop out for a variety of reasons (I dropped out in 10th grade). In some US states the dropout rate is frighteningly high.
--
I remember pwning this kid in a government class debate once with a quote from Ben Franklin. The topic was whether the Bush administration was justified in restricting civil liberties in the interest of fighting terrorism.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Dat class reaction!
Last edited by Will Zurmacht on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
It seemed the world was divided into good and bad people. The good ones slept better... while the bad ones seemed to enjoy the waking hours much more. -Woody Allen
DorostheConqueror wrote:Why would you "lose all your rights" in school setting? Especially one that you've been coerced into attending?
In a public school system, you lose at the very least your 1st, 2nd (obviously), and 4th amendment rights.
You can't walk up to a teacher and say "[&@%!] you".
You can't carry a gun around school.
A principal can randomly search your locker or even person at random.
EDIT: And as to your comment on getting busted for not attending school, there are truancy officers that come to your house and do some crazy [&@%!] if you haven't been coming to school (at least in some states). Many states are considering adopting a law in which your parents would go to jail for two days if you were truant enough. I think Puerto Rico did it, and their truancy rates dropped exponentially.
Hello, my name is Stanley, That talking grapefruit from Passwall.
All hail the vikings and their gods and Odin and Freya and I hope you all make it to Valhalla eventually
Drop out rates: I remember learning while in university that half of the students who start school drop out at the higher education level. Not that there aren't plenty of reasons for that, but it's a shockingly high number. My brother just said he heard a very similar statistic, so I suppose it's still the case.
Huzzah!
"[...] for the lives of gods are not what mortals think and matters that weigh only years to mortals weigh on gods forever." The Tribunal Temple, Nerevar at Red Mountain
Find the S'wit:
ESO PC-NA: @Avron | Legends: nosoundcomes
About three weeks ago, I had to disprove Lewis Carroll's famous "Two times two equals five" statement. That was a barrel of laughs, if ever there was one.
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
" 'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door;
Only this, and nothing more."
Ah, distinctly I remember, it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow, sorrow for the lost Lenore,.
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore,
Nameless here forevermore.
And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me---filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating,
" 'Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door,
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door.
This it is, and nothing more."
Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
"Sir," said I, "or madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is, I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you." Here I opened wide the door;---
Darkness there, and nothing more.
Deep into the darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortals ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the stillness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word,
Lenore?, This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word,
"Lenore!" Merely this, and nothing more.
Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping, something louder than before,
"Surely," said I, "surely, that is something at my window lattice.
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore.
Let my heart be still a moment, and this mystery explore.
" 'Tis the wind, and nothing more."
Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven, of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door.
Perched upon a bust of Pallas, just above my chamber door,
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.
Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven thou," I said, "art sure no craven,
Ghastly, grim, and ancient raven, wandering from the nightly shore.
Tell me what the lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore."
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning, little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door,
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as "Nevermore."
But the raven, sitting lonely on that placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered; not a feather then he fluttered;
Till I scarcely more than muttered, "Other friends have flown before;
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before."
Then the bird said, "Nevermore."
Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
"Doubtless," said I, "what it utters is its only stock and store,
Caught from some unhappy master, whom unmerciful disaster
Followed fast and followed faster, till his songs one burden bore,---
Till the dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore
Of "Never---nevermore."
But the raven still beguiling all my sad soul into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore --
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking "Nevermore."
Thus I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl, whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet lining that the lamplight gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamplight gloating o'er
She shall press, ah, nevermore!
Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by seraphim whose footfalls tinkled on the tufted floor.
"Wretch," I cried, "thy God hath lent thee -- by these angels he hath
Sent thee respite---respite and nepenthe from thy memories of Lenore!
Quaff, O quaff this kind nepenthe, and forget this lost Lenore!"
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore!"
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil!--prophet still, if bird or devil!
Whether tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate, yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted--
On this home by horror haunted--tell me truly, I implore:
Is there--is there balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me I implore!"
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil--prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that heaven that bends above us--by that God we both adore--
Tell this soul with sorrow laden, if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden, whom the angels name Lenore---
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels name Lenore?
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
"Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!" I shrieked, upstarting--
"Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! -- quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!"
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming.
And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted---nevermore!
