Initial Bonuses

[Siken]

I just wonder what other people think of Initial Bonuses in Skyrim.
Like i see Imperial are ideal for for adventure on master seting.
Tho i tink imperials have Enchanting insted of Speech so they are realy buffed.
Bretons are demaged becouse Conjuration is left whit no summoned armor spells,
and in my opinion alteration spels are usles if you dont have armor and they have no real fightin skills.
If they att list aded summon armor whit greter duration then shield spells it will be mach mor beter...

[OblivionDuruza]

You should check this out, even if it is slightly different, it may be worth a read at least. Like I said there, the new bonuses somewhat go against what I see as racial identities establish in the Lore of previous games, but I guess they're not a huge issue.

In terms of which is the most useful to begin with, I hardly think of it, as starting bonuses don't have a huge gameplay significance or restrictive element for me.

I too was a little annoyed by the unexplained changes. Specifically, the issue of Lore and racial identity forged over the previous instalments of the game; in regards to the Redguards suddenly becoming proficient Mages, the Dunmer loosing their Blade and Marksman bonuses and going from well-rounded offensive types to Stealthy Mages, and the Imperials loss of their amazing Personality. There are a few other minor things, like the Altmer having a greater Illusion boost than Destruction, and the fact that Nords and Bretons have Speech bonuses while Imperials do not. Thankfully, our very own Trelares has created a mod that 'rectifies' the matter.

[Rynkar]

I hate how anybody would be bothered by its change. Its not like a few years from oblivion to skyrim, its 200. Things can change much more drasticly than that and in much shorter time irl.

[OblivionDuruza]

Elder Scrolls Lore extends for much longer than two centuries mind you, the history of the races of Tamriel extends into millennia, the changes to their racial identities have not been explained, which is the main issue, as I outlined in the post I linked to. Lore has been openly contradicted with no explanation. Identity is an intangible flow of ideals yes, but not pliable to the extent that anyone citing temporal explanations might suppose.

[Rynkar]

I dont think lore has ever stated that every imperial was a master spokesman...just because 3 games set within 10 years of each other gave the same things doesn't mean 200 years later wont have caused some changes. And its such a small matter I don't even notice.
And lastly, what if its a change just for the sake of gameplay? Lore isn't that big in game mechanics, or vise versa.

[Siken]

Well just look on Forsworn and then look att Breton racial bonuses and you 200 years are in present situation whit no sens like they wuld be befor in Oblivion.
How some one can be so agresive wen they nature have no warrior lore att all whit bonuses that reflect them.
Well i dont care but thos Breton are totaly striped of power they have whit spells in Oblivion, and to be able to just star playing whit them you need to level basic offence skills a loot
and that is only from game play point realy unrealistic.

[OblivionDuruza]

I would quote my other post (there is a link to it in the above post though), but as it is in a locked Forum, i.e. the Archives, I cannot.

Suffice to say, racial identities exist explicitly in Lore:

Though physically less imposing than the other races, the Imperials have proved to be shrewd diplomats and traders, and these traits, along with their remarkable skill and training as light infantry ...

On the battlefield, Dunmer are noted for their skill with a balanced integration of the sword, the bow and destruction magic.

The practice of eastern magic, or "Nudri-hi", is greatly frowned upon by Crown and Forebear alike, and outsiders are not tolerated in many parts of Hammerfell.

Also, the Forsworn have existed for centuries, they're not new. They date back to before the first Aldmeri Dominion, who they were once allies with, and further.

[Rynkar]

Its just a game mechanic change that shouldn't be taken seriously then.

[Frost Mage]

At the end of the day, initial race bonuses just aren't the foundation of a class anymore, like they were in Oblivion and Morrowind. Unless you count in Powers, any race is a viable option for any play style. That being said, I wouldn't be caught dead playing as an Altmer Warrior.

[OblivionDuruza]

Like I said, from a gameplay point of view, starting bonuses mean next to nothing, but from a racial identity point of view, they are much more significant. It's like Tolkien suddenly making his Elves terrible in melee combat and his Dwarves fantastic at archery in order to ensure they were balanced for a videogame. The Elder Scrolls universe is more than any one game.

[Frost Mage]

Like I said, from a gameplay point of view, starting bonuses mean next to nothing, but from a racial identity point of view, they are much more significant. It's like Tolkien suddenly making his Elves terrible in melee combat and his Dwarves fantastic at archery in order to ensure they were balanced for a videogame. The Elder Scrolls universe is more than any one game.

I agree. That being said, not everyone bases their characters around lore.

[Siken]

Well things that pain me the most in this games is that Breton who are my favorite suck in offence and difence, and that light armor is thing for sniking people and incrise wen you fight...
That is the anoing things that make me lees plesent to play wen some thing just have no sens and make it hard to owercome in my head.
So that litle thing just keep building they numbers and dont contrubute in my like list.

[Frost Mage]

Bretons are fairly OP in Skyrim. Their 25% resistance to Magic is very valuable, and besides that, there's really nothing more holding them back than any other race.

[Siken]

Realy now.
Well let me enlighten you.
I fight dragon in quest on level 12 and i have 30 light armor skill becouse warrior stone dont incrise that skill faster.
I have 25 magic resistance wen compered whit other recial resistance of 50% that not so good but not to be dismised.
Well inaf to say dragon just hit me 1 time and then animation kick and he eath me no mather that i put all into the healt.
So imgine how mach OP breton are, you mast not think of some demi God he can be but to think on actualy get him strong to stay a live whit so mach
litle thing he miss is realy anoing only to think of it.

[Frost Mage]

In the long run, no race is OP, but when it comes to convenience at the beginning of the game, Bretons are a very good choice for mages. About you dying a lot, I must let you know that just because you are a certain race doesn't mean you are going to be superior and more powerful because of it. You're a low level, and no matter what race you are, you are going to have a rough times with dragons at a low level.

[Siken]

You mast be mising the part wen i say they have no offense or defense adventage so warrior or mage or what ever they be is all the same starting from nothing and substitute for them is even wors.
But let live it on that becouse in my eyes this will not change.

[Arterion]

Actually the Imperials reflect the lore of the traditional two souls of the Empire, Colovia and Niben. The first are rough highlanders with a long history of service in the Imperial Legions while the second are mage lords, priests and clerics who provide the intellectual side of the Empire.

The Bretons ARE powerful, if you follow their racial bonus. With Conjuration on 25 and in five levels and several perks you are able to summon atronachs for defense and smite your enemies with a Daedric level bow. This is simply one of the best combinations for Master level. Couple that with some Illusion for crowd control and you have a character that is tough, be in in defense or offense.

The Redguards seem to fall back on their interpetation of the arabic warrior. Clad in but cloth (Alteration bonus) and wieldieng two scimitars, they are fast, nimble and deadly right up from the start. Remember that cloth armor is the best one when you have to spare stamina for those power attacks.

Well the Dunmer are the only ones to be somehow hit in their attributes and locked in a single class, the Nightblade. Still wouthout spell sneak attacks one has to rely heavily on Illusion (still mods correct this).

The other races seem to be quite straightforwad in their attributes and classes.

[Siken]

Its realy fany, frst time i fancy one-handed Axe in game and what do i get, a breton who can not conjure that...

[Pick My Lock]

For any of such "misused" species, the reason behind a change may not be right out there for you to grasp. Character descriptions are meant to be a brief summary, not a boringly long tale through mounds of lore. It was already said by Trayvond (Redguard) that destruction spells suited their culture well. People begin to act like they were given the bonuses of an Altmer. Do you consider a man who may unleash flames or boost his armour once in a while, a thief? Lore is important, yes, but do not complain if you have not educated yourself efficiently or decide to fight a dragon without the proper knowledge or power to defeat it. Bethesda knows what they're doing, there are times when you must sit back and let them do the work.

[OblivionDuruza]

It's funny you mention Trayvond, as he is the one who states explicitly that:

I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked. My family didn't approve of my vocation, so I had to come to Cyrodiil for my education. I admit... I still have strong prejudices against necromancy, summoning, and illusion. Profaning the remains or souls of the dead is just wrong. And I'm uneasy about tampering with other's minds and trafficking with Daedra.

It's also stated that the Redguards blame Magic for the destruction of Yokuda, and have held onto this hurt for centuries, since the first Era, a much greater expanse of time than that between oblivion and Skyrim:

Yokuda was the scene of frequent warfare, and there are tales blaming the cataclysm on a rebel band of Ansei, magical swordsmen whose secret techniques are reputedly capable of such devastation. In any event, the Redguards themselves seem to be under the impression that the destruction of Yokuda was in some way their fault.

The same breadth of information can be found for the other races that have seen their racial identity relatively significantly changed, the Lore is pretty explicit and detailed, and the change hasn't been justified or explained, which is the real issue here.