Do the starting values of skills for races annoy you?

[Jaime Gemstone]

I don't like the starting values of skills for different races. It might just be in comparison to Oblivion, however. But I think they're nonsensical.

In Oblivion, the Imperial had a high personality, starting with good speech and mercantile skills. That's just gone. Why? Why don't they start with higher speech? They're supposed to be the knight class - heavy armor, sword and shield, white magic and charismatic. I just don't get why they changed it.

The dark elf annoys me too. In Oblivion they were good for a blade, bow and destruction combo. In Skyrim they have no one handed or archery skill, however. They're basically just a sneaky mage for starters, which is lame.

The redguard is supposed to be a talented warrior. It even says so in the description on Skyrim. But the only talent they have is some one handed, block and archery. There is no armor bonus and no two handed bonus. They have restoration and alteration instead, so are actually intended as a half warrior mage class.

The breton has no magicka bonus. I find this really annoying. It makes the race dull. Because when you consider all of the above - if you want to play a dark elf who is traditionally skilled in blade, destruction and bow, then you must ignore the starting values. So the only thing that makes a breton a better mage than a orc is the starting values, which for most races are all over the place anyway.

Anyone else get annoyed by these?

[ArgonianDunmer]

Yes, it annoys me greatly. I mean, Redguards with MAGIC?!?

[unokitsune]

Yes, it annoys me greatly. I mean, Redguards with MAGIC?!?

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trayvond_the_Redguard
http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Borissean
http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Trevaia


Hmm, they are more common than Orc Mages.
http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Orag_gra-Bargol
http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Urag_gro-Shub

[ArgonianDunmer]

Trayvond even states that "I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked. My family didn't approve of my vocation, so I had to come to Cyrodiil for my education. I admit... I still have strong prejudices against necromancy, summoning, and illusion. Profaning the remains or souls of the dead is just wrong. And I'm uneasy about tampering with other's minds and trafficking with Daedra."

[unokitsune]

Trayvond even states that "I'm Trayvond the Redguard, Mages Guild Evoker. Surprised? Yes, you don't see many Redguards in the Mages Guild. We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. Wizards steal souls and tamper with minds. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked. My family didn't approve of my vocation, so I had to come to Cyrodiil for my education. I admit... I still have strong prejudices against necromancy, summoning, and illusion. Profaning the remains or souls of the dead is just wrong. And I'm uneasy about tampering with other's minds and trafficking with Daedra."

And yet Borissean is one of the 2 masters of the magical arcane. Honestly Trayvond is probably less pessimisstic than Onmund of Winterhold, a Nord.

[ArgonianDunmer]

That doesn't mean that all Redguards should get a Magic bonus they've never received before. Those few are the exception that proves the rule, the Redguards are't naturally talented Mages and they hate Magic as a society.

[unokitsune]

That doesn't mean that all Redguards should get a Magic bonus they've never received before. Those few are the exception that proves the rule, the Redguards are't naturally talented Mages and they hate Magic as a society.

As do the Nords of Skyrim. Yet it seems those that aren't raised in their natural provinces and instead in Cyrodil seem more open to magic. In Cyrodil there were alot of Nords in the Mages guild of both Genders, yet next to none in Skyrim.

The majority of the Human races are designed more for a warrior/thief perspective. Bretons are the natural exception because they are man-mer.

[ArgonianDunmer]

Yes, but just because some can be Mages, does not mean that they should get a bonus. Some Altmer can be warriors, just look at the Fighters Guild, does that mean they should all get a combat bonus?

The Redguards are the "most naturally talented warriors in Tamriel", they are not spellswords in the traditional Lore.

[unokitsune]

perhaps they evolved in the last 200 years since we saw them?

I do know the developers were fiddling with the idea of making redguards more white
http://uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-WomanHall_wLegal.jpg

Perhaps some of the new developers like magic and like the appearance of redguard and wanted to play them so they decided to give the race a magic bonus?

[ArgonianDunmer]

There is no explanation tendered in Skyrim for the change, and even if that were the case, there's no fidelity to lore in that case. Why all of a sudden a the Redguards good at Magic when they've hated Magic ever since Yokuda was destroyed?

[unokitsune]

Repeat: Perhaps some of the new developers like magic and like the appearance of redguard and wanted to play them so they decided to give the race a magic bonus?

I don't know if you noticed but Developers have proven they don't follow the Lore coherently.

Case of Barenziah for example. In Daggerfall she was a beautiful seductress. Yet in Tribunal she appeared very old. She had aged the elven equivelent of 50 human years in just 50 years.

Blame the developers for that one. They nerfed magic and fiddled with funky racial stats.

[ArgonianDunmer]

You don't need to repeat, I replied in my post to that, just because the devs want to change something, doesn't mean they can do it and not explain it and expect people not to be annoyed by it, which is what this thread is about.

[unokitsune]

Well then the answer for your question can't be found here, you would have to ask a developer for that and most of them dont respond to individual fan questions making something like this pointless.

I like to imagine it as evolution, things and people need to evolve in order to survive. Perhaps the gods themselves feel that redguards should become more magic users. I have run into more than one enemy redguard mage who look like Sten from Dragon Age Origins and they hit like a truck.

[ArgonianDunmer]

I wasn;t looking for an answer, per se, it was more of a demonstrative rhetorical question. I'm just voicing my annoyance as per the thread, in the hope that maybe one day a dev will stumble over it and say "hey, he's right, we do need to show some fidelity to Lore and explain stuff when we change it"

[unokitsune]

They have made things easier for new players that don't care much for truly developing a character. Rather they mainstreamed things significantly.

I do however hate the new look for dark elves, namely with that funky star treck brow thing.

[ArgonianDunmer]

They should be valuing loyalty of gamers who've been with the games for a while, as much as, if not more, than trying to accommodate new players (they should do that, but not at the unnecessary cost to previous players). How hard would it be to write a book explaining the change really, in the scheme of the game?

[unokitsune]

They should be valuing loyalty of gamers who've been with the games for a while, as much as, if not more, than trying to accommodate new players (they should do that, but not at the unnecessary cost to previous players). How hard would it be to write a book explaining the change really, in the scheme of the game?

Not that hard actually.

You should see the amount of complaining they do on the bethsoft forums, I lost track of the number of topics there were and I viewed them last december early January. There is probably more now.

Anyhow it does allow one to use their imagination. However, if they dumb it down any further they will loose more people, Oblivion hs more lore explanation honestly.

[ArgonianDunmer]

Yeah I agree, it would not have been hard to explain it away, and Bethesda has to do the little things to keep us happy. In saying that, imagination is good, but for something like this, it really does need some actual explanation.

[unokitsune]

Many things need Explanation actually, especcialy that of the Falmer. How did a race rival to that of the Altmer degeneration to Goblin Status, was it something the dwarves forced them to eat? Why did they never evolve back? Issues like that etc...

[ArgonianDunmer]

It was a toxic fungi that the Dwemer made them eat, which mutated them into the 'beastly form' they are today, iirc.

[unokitsune]

And yet when the Dwarves mysteriously dissapeared, why coudln't the Falmer evolve back, and how did a Snow elf statue get built when they were already underground?.

I was writing a fanfic about this, but I got uninspired so played other games and found my inspiration just not time and encouragement.

[ArgonianDunmer]

True, I guess the mutation was permanent, or that the Falmer continue to eat the fungi because they have become addicted/dependant on it. As for the statue, I'm not sure, maybe it was built prior.

[unokitsune]

And what is the story with the Wispmothers? They are really strong especially at lower levels. A being of pure magic, can "clone" itself and make wisps.

[OblivionDuruza]

I too was a little annoyed by the unexplained changes. Specifically, the issue of Lore and racial identity forged over the previous instalments of the game; in regards to the Redguards suddenly becoming proficient Mages, the Dunmer loosing their Blade and Marksman bonuses and going from well-rounded offensive types to Stealthy Mages, and the Imperials loss of their amazing Personality. There are a few other minor things, like the Altmer having a greater Illusion boost than Destruction, and the fact that Nords and Bretons have Speech bonuses while Imperials do not. Thankfully, our very own Trelares has created a mod that 'rectifies' the matter.

[unokitsune]

I too was a little annoyed by the unexplained changes. Specifically, the issue of Lore and racial identity forged over the previous instalments of the game; in regards to the Redguards suddenly becoming proficient Mages, the Dunmer loosing their Blade and Marksman bonuses and going from well-rounded offensive types to Stealthy Mages, and the Imperials loss of their amazing Personality. There are a few other minor things, like the Altmer having a greater Illusion boost than Destruction, and the fact that Nords and Bretons have Speech bonuses while Imperials do not. Thankfully, our very own Trelares has created a mod that 'rectifies' the matter.

And the Altmer loosing their traditional weakness to magic, and why they are the only race with a natural stat boost?