Self defense is considered an assault (using frenzy/taunt)!

[hydraboxdog]

I'm trying to kill Feruren Oran for the Morag Tong, and so I crafted a Frenzy Humanoid spell (100-100, 1sec duration) for the occasion. He gets angry and attacks me. Here's the problem: if I fight back, everyone gets mad and I get a bounty for killing him. Why is this happening? Does anyone know how I can fix this?

I'm using the PC version with both expansions and the patch project mod.

[Milder Despues]

Do you actually let him land the first blow? It's not enough that he gets angry and shouts, he has to attack first as well.

[hydraboxdog]

Even if I wait until I'm almost dead it's regarded as an assault.

[Ragnarok]

I think it's because you used the spell first. Try taunting instead of frenzy.

[hydraboxdog]

I've tried using taunt too (after taking off my clothes to get chat options). Same thing. I get attacked and then get in trouble for assault.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Could you maybe let him out of the city, into the wilderness, and kill him when he lands the first blow?

[hydraboxdog]

I could do that, yes, but I was hoping I could use easier methods that I've never heard of anyone else having problems with. And it will be a pain if I have to do this for every single person I kill too.

[Ragnarok]

Oh, wait. Morag tong ... never did those but aren't you given a writ or something that acts like a "get out of jail free" pass if seen? And aren 't you supposed to assassinate unseen using stealth in the first place? Asking cause there may be quest objectives at play here. Might want to check the wiki.

[Lazy Waysef]

when do they attack? right when you hit him?

[hydraboxdog]

Yes, you are given a writ, but I believe that you are given better rewards and you'll be liked better if it's not counted as a crime at all. And all the guides specifically state that I can use frenzy to make him attack me. I think the whole stealthy killing is more of a Dark Brotherhood thing.

And I get a negative response from the other people right when I swing my katana, and then I get the bounty when I actually kill him. I've even tried testing on other NPCs. The problem's not exclusive to the guy I need to kill. It's everyone.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Try doing the same Frenzy method on another person. Is it the same?

[Lazy Waysef]

This is a tricky one, if it was just him, I would point to the script as it has some pretty funky stuff going on with OnHit==1 and such. It basically makes everyone attack as soon as you hit him. I'll continue to delve for a bit longer. So taunt doesn't work on anyone?

[hydraboxdog]

No, every person that I do taunt/frenzy on I get in trouble for killing. And thanks for continuing to help, everyone. I hope there is a solution to this. I'm somewhat confused because I found no similar problems when scouring the internet.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Hmm... 'tis odd. Well, try the running away thing.

[hydraboxdog]

For this quest I probably will get a Command Humanoid and take him somewhere safe until I can find a long term solution for my problem.

[Lazy Waysef]

Yeah, I have no idea, I think Its too complicated for me, its not very clear why, but it seems like every NPC in your game has way too high of a fight or alarm stat, but determining the cause is a daunting task as its sort of unclear how taunt actually works...i.e. how much fight it adds each time its successful. Good luck!

[Gideon Dragontongue]

The Morag Tong is unique in that it is considered a crime to attack marks at any time, regardless of spells/taunting. So unless you're skillful enough to do it without being seen, you will just have to show the writ and accept the consequences.

[Xibir]

I have spent hours upon hours creating a "perfect" assassin. I could kill in one stealth hit (using daedric katana) and remain undetected, and compared the outcomes to my "just kill them" character which had to almost always utilize writs. I didn't notice a difference.

[hydraboxdog]

So, will using frenzy against anyone (including non-targets) any time a Morag Tong quest is active be the same way and not allow self-defense? And do my stolen items get taken immediately upon being talked to (a good chunk of my stuff is stolen and I don't remember what all is), or do I get to keep them if I present my writ of execution? If disposition is the only thing I won't gain as much of, then I guess I can avoid worrying about it too much. I'm rather worried about not being able to use frenzy for other quests either though (I've tested on multiple random people in Vivec).

I was expecting frenzy to be adequate because the guide specifically states: "Casting Frenzy on him till he attacks you will also incur no bounty." Yet I most certainly do incur a bounty upon killing him.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

I believe you get to keep your stolen items and just present the writ.

[Dean]

Just keep taunting him, but make sure that his disposition is not 0 when you do it. If it is just keep bribing it back up, and then eventually he will just attack you after about five successful taunts. You can get all the money back after you kill him, so don't worry about losing anything permanently.

[hydraboxdog]

I tested again on a Redoran guard in Ald'ruhn and it went fine, so I guess it must just be certain areas/NPCs that have the problem. Anyway, thanks a lot for the help, everyone.

edit: Woah, I just returned, frenzied, and killed him, and this time it WORKED. I have no idea why it fixed itself like that... Maybe it was the dank Vivec air.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Well, good to know you've fixed it!