The hate of the Middle-East in the media

[DorostheConqueror]

They're going to be PC about it, but now every time you see someone who looks vaguely Muslim, the authorities question if he is going to blow up the city. Not to mention that we now have to get out bags scanned at the airport, again, under a false pretense to "protect us from terrorism".

If the "authorities" ask a question like that, the media immediately kicks up a storm about "racial profiling". Even if the guy in question actually is a terrorist, you can't nab him just for looking like a terrorist, or at least, if you do, you have to make sure no one with a camera is looking.

And as far as the bags getting scanned goes, well, yeah, protecting us from terrorists is as good a pretense as any to shove a bag through a scanner. Of all the hassles and red tape involved in long distance travel, a quick saunter through a metal detector so as to prevent your flight ending in a ball of flame somewhere over the North Atlantic is not that big a deal.

Do you think it's completely fake and it's just a mere coincidence that it spells out "Osama" and shows the pentagon, World Trade Center, and how they were destroyed?

Yes.

[Taters]

First of all, what does everyone think of the dollar bill trick? Do you think it's completely fake and it's just a mere coincidence that it spells out "Osama" and shows the pentagon, World Trade Center, and how they were destroyed?

I think it's total BS. It's like people who claim the Bible has a secret code in it, that if you take every nth word, it tells the future or something. Well, you know what? I bet if I ran the right algorithm, I could find something in the Bible where every nth word made the lyrics to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Doesn't mean it's intentional. That kind of stuff happens all the time, which is why we have a field of math called statistics and probability.

[Frost Mage]

First of all, what does everyone think of the dollar bill trick? Do you think it's completely fake and it's just a mere coincidence that it spells out "Osama" and shows the pentagon, World Trade Center, and how they were destroyed?

I think it's total BS. It's like people who claim the Bible has a secret code in it, that if you take every nth word, it tells the future or something. Well, you know what? I bet if I ran the right algorithm, I could find something in the Bible where every nth word made the lyrics to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Doesn't mean it's intentional. That kind of stuff happens all the time, which is why we have a field of math called statistics and probability.

Meh, I just find it curious, not necessarily true. I like to keep an open mind about these kinds of things.
EDIT: This is interesting.

[Jeff]

First of all, for you to understand my side of the story, you must know that I believe that not only was 9/11 used by the government to make an easy explanation for practically taking over the military and government of the Middle-East,

There are 18 Countries in the Middle-East Gulf Coast, (up to 38 depending on your definition). The invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq hardly qualify for the Middle-East. If you are going to debate your point of view, you need to be precise, or you will be rebuked. Just saying...

but so that they could take their natural resources which we are running low on. Once we get these resources, whatever they may include, we will move into another stage, but that is for another discussion.

Afghanistan is not a major oil producing country. We never took over Afghanistan, and have been working with their Government to eliminate the threat of Al-queda and Taliban.

Present share of the top oil producing countries by ranking.
1 Saudi Arabia (OPEC) 11.8%
3 United States 11.1%
4 Iran (OPEC) 5.1%
13 Iraq (OPEC) 2.9%
...so no, we are not going to run out soon. We will eventually, just like every other country will, if actions are not taken to start using more alternative fuels.

Operation Desert Storm happened because Saudi Arabi asked for Assistance to free Kuwait. We were told we were prohibited from taking Baghdad. Any attempt to take Baghdad and Iraq would have led to our former Arab Alies to attack us.

Operation Iraqi Freedom happened as the name suggests. Iraqi Officials asked for assistance to take Saddam and (mainly) his Sons out of control of Iraq. We did not invade to take over, but to execute a Civil War/Rebelion. We did not have the Threat of our Arab Alies attacking us, as we had approval from them, unlike during ODS. We had no intentions of taking over Iraq, we had plans to leave a lot sooner than we did. Unfortunately things did not go as they should, and quite a few things were handled poorly.

It 9/11 was an excuse to take over Iraq, then why have we pulled our forces out? Why are we not still there? Why are we planing to remove our forces from Afghanistan?


I am sort of curious why it was okay to assist Lybia's Civil War/Rebellion, but not okay to help out Iraq?

[Frost Mage]

Why are we pulling them out? Because the public has finally made it obvious that this is not what we want, and we have a president that's not a complete idiot.

[DorostheConqueror]

Why are we pulling them out? Because the public has finally made it obvious that this is not what we want, and we have a president that's not a complete idiot.

We're pulling out because the Iraqi government doesn't want to play ball and give our military any special legal exceptions. And the "public" has never cared less about Iraq than it does now. You're probably too young to remember the lead up and early years of the Iraq War, but if public outrage was enough to get us out, Colin Powell would have never even cracked open those WMD files.

[Jeff]

The Iraqi Government does not want the US Forces to leave. We are pulling our forces out of Iraq, because Iraq wants to be able to prosecute US Forces for War Crimes due to Collateral Damage Incidents.

If the Government is pulling out it's forces because that is what the people want, then it sort of blows up you theory.

The US pulling it Forces out, it not the right thing to do at this time, as Iraq and Afghanistan are not ready to stand on their own. I want my Brothers and Sisters in Arms home more than any of the "Peacenicks", but not if it is not the right thing to do at this time. I do not want their Sacrifices to be for Nothing.

Ninja'd

[Frost Mage]

It's just that now I assume the government has done what it can, and now when it's convenient, "listens to the public".

[DorostheConqueror]

It's not listening to the public, though. Again, that's the media talking, the media which you seem to have a problem with! "Listening to the public" is what Obama promised to do three, four years ago, back when he used getting out of Iraq (but not Afghanistan, funny how everyone seemed to ignore his consistently hardline stance on Afghanistan) as one of his key campaign promises. The only reason he's doing it now is, as both Jeff and I have said, because of the whole war crimes thing, which is as much a decision from the Brass as it is from the CoC. Sure, it'll get spun as Obama giving the masses what they want (and just in time for elections!), but the masses have largely forgotten about Iraq. Now they're worried about other things, like the tanking economy, or the NWO.

[Jeff]

Now, since you were not reading what I wrote earlier, and you asked again, I will repost this for you:

First of all, what does everyone think of the dollar bill trick? Do you think it's completely fake and it's just a mere coincidence that it spells out "Osama" and shows the pentagon, World Trade Center, and how they were destroyed?

The $20 Bill was switched to a small-sized note with a portrait of Andrew Jackson on the face and the south view of the White House on the reverse in 1928.

The idea of establishing a World Trade Center in New York City was first proposed in 1943. Initial plans, made public in 1961, identified a site along the East River for the World Trade Center. On September 20, 1962, the Port Authority announced the selection of Minoru Yamasaki as lead architect and Emery Roth & Sons as associate architects. Yamasaki's design for the World Trade Center, unveiled to the public on January 18, 1964. The complex opened on April 4, 1973.

The Pentagon was opened on January 15, 1943.

ADDED: Osama bin Laden was born: March 10, 1957

...so were the people who designed the $20 Bill in 1928 Psychic?

[Frost Mage]

Not saying I entirely believe it, but there are many things that COULD have happened, such as the government having the idea for a World Trade Center, and knowing that they would use them to persuade the media to accept the invasion of another country. Again, this is all VERY out there, but like I said, I like to question other possibilities in history.

[Taters]

Not saying I entirely believe it, but there are many things that COULD have happened, such as the government having the idea for a World Trade Center, and knowing that they would use them to persuade the media to accept the invasion of another country. Again, this is all VERY out there, but like I said, I like to question other possibilities in history.

I'm reminded of a saying: "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out".

[Frost Mage]

I try not to do that, Taters.

[Taters]

The one other thing I'll add to this thread is this: if you want to understand current events in the Middle East, read a book on Islam. You really can't understand that area of the world until you understand the religion that dominates it. I would recommend The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Middle East, whose author, Robert Spencer, actually keeps his address secret because he's received so many death threats from Islamic organizations.

Also, interesting relevant fun fact: Iran and Sudan are the only two nations on earth where crucifixion is still a legal punishment

[Avron the S'wit]

The one other thing I'll add to this thread is this: if you want to understand current events in the Middle East, read a book on Islam.

I would totally recommend No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam by Reza Aslan as well. Fantastic book!

The book The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright is also interesting, as it discusses the history behind these religious groups and leaders who have abused Islam, as well as mirroring some historical events in the USA that also tie in. Both are exceptional books I would recommend. Heck, I'd even lend you mine!

It's also important to remember to separate the teachings of Islam from religious fanatics, and also to consider the economic, political, and humanitarian aspects of these societies - so you have to be a bit of an anthropologist. Don't forget to examine all sides of the issue before you make up your own opinions, and look into lots of great resources.

[Lindai]

I don't see what the $20 bill trick has to do with the media, FrostyMage. It's all very Nostradamus-y. Seeing into the future is what I call "magic" and I don't believe in magic, really.

The point of this thread should be criticizing the mainstream media for their way of portraying the actual threat in the Middle East. Remember: America's been attacked once. If I did not know of the occurence of 9/11, and watched the news and heard the word "terror" and "terrorists" flung at me hundreds of times per week, I'd imagine that America must be recieving terror attacks every 10 or 20 minutes. They don't seem to shut up about this non-existent threat.

The actual terror has been experienced by millions of people in the Middle East. The actual terrorists-America and Israel. Disagree? You're wrong I'm afraid, for they're the ones doing the ransacking,occupying and killing i.e terrorizing, for the last 10 years. The media though would have you believe that the West is on the receiving end of this terrorism."[In response to the assassination of 5 Iranian civilian nuclear scientists] IRAN HAS THREATENED TO RETALIATE AND THUS BECOME A NATION OF.....T-T-T-TERRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRISTSSSS. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN- TERRORISTS[/In response to the assassination of 5 Iranian civilian nuclear scientists]"

How do you feel the U.S. government has handled the war in the Middle-East?

Successfully. They sustained an illegal war for 10 years and no country had the balls to stand up to them. That has to be some form of record.

Do you want them to pull out our troops, or rather continue fighting?

Well, they've never really been fighting anyone anyways. I think the rest of the world would appreciate it if they stopped provoking Iran and if they didn't start a third world war. My mother for example. Fuel prices are high enough. If she were to be stressed due to even higher fuel prices, all because of the American gov't's inability to have an ounce of [&@%!] moral, then I, and she, and a few billion others would despise the American gov't more so than before.

But tune into Fox News and watch some O' Reilly Factor to hear the other side. Listen to Rupert Murdoch's opinion on the issues and take them as truth. I'm sure he will deliver an honest story and analysis of the situation without any bias. Ron Paul wants to get all the troops out of the Middle East. Coincidentally, the mainstream media pays no attention to him. Ahh, yeah, I think I see how this works.

[Taters]

The actual terrorists-America and Israel.

Oh, yes, the religiously-free, democractic nations are pure evil. We should, instead, model ourselves on a brutal oppressive, theocratic regime like Iran, who CLEARLY are timid little bunnies of no threat to anyone. Oh, wait, I forgot, IT'S NOT BIZARRO WORLD.

[Frost Mage]

I don't see what the $20 bill trick has to do with the media, FrostyMage. It's all very Nostradamus-y. Seeing into the future is what I call "magic" and I don't believe in magic, really.

The point of this thread should be criticizing the mainstream media for their way of portraying the actual threat in the Middle East. Remember: America's been attacked once. If I did not know of the occurence of 9/11, and watched the news and heard the word "terror" and "terrorists" flung at me hundreds of times per week, I'd imagine that America must be recieving terror attacks every 10 or 20 minutes. They don't seem to shut up about this non-existent threat.

The actual terror has been experienced by millions of people in the Middle East. The actual terrorists-America and Israel. Disagree? You're wrong I'm afraid, for they're the ones doing the ransacking,occupying and killing i.e terrorizing, for the last 10 years. The media though would have you believe that the West is on the receiving end of this terrorism."[In response to the assassination of 5 Iranian civilian nuclear scientists] IRAN HAS THREATENED TO RETALIATE AND THUS BECOME A NATION OF.....T-T-T-TERRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRISTSSSS. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN- TERRORISTS[/In response to the assassination of 5 Iranian civilian nuclear scientists]"

How do you feel the U.S. government has handled the war in the Middle-East?

Successfully. They sustained an illegal war for 10 years and no country had the balls to stand up to them. That has to be some form of record.

Do you want them to pull out our troops, or rather continue fighting?

Well, they've never really been fighting anyone anyways. I think the rest of the world would appreciate it if they stopped provoking Iran and if they didn't start a third world war. My mother for example. Fuel prices are high enough. If she were to be stressed due to even higher fuel prices, all because of the American gov't's inability to have an ounce of [&@%!] moral, then I, and she, and a few billion others would despise the American gov't more so than before.

But tune into Fox News and watch some O' Reilly Factor to hear the other side. Listen to Rupert Murdoch's opinion on the issues and take them as truth. I'm sure he will deliver an honest story and analysis of the situation without any bias. Ron Paul wants to get all the troops out of the Middle East. Coincidentally, the mainstream media pays no attention to him. Ahh, yeah, I think I see how this works.

<3

[Wolfie]

Successfully. They sustained an illegal war for 10 years and no country had the balls to stand up to them. That has to be some form of record.

No offense but a bombing of a country is an act of war, and its not like any other was was "legal"

[Lindai]

Oh, yes, the religiously-free, democratic nations are pure evil. We should, instead, model ourselves on a brutal oppressive, theocratic regime like Iran, who CLEARLY are timid little bunnies of no threat to anyone. Oh, wait, I forgot, IT'S NOT BIZARRO WORLD.

Yes, your gov't should model itself on some aspects of Iran. Like putting defense ahead of bullying offense, and not killing hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterns. Also, by not spending trillions on the business of killing. And Iran is religiously-free and virtually about as democratic as the U.S.A as of now. They also have no intention of attacking the U.S.A. Anyways, your subjective labelling of their culture is irrelevant(I also believe that they are oppressive but that doesn't mean that they should be attacked). Your post did not disprove the fact that the American/Israeli gov'ts are the actual terrorists.

No offense but a bombing of a country is an act of war, and its not like any other was was "legal"

Yeah..None taken.
When was the last time America was bombed? If your are referring to the 9/11 attacks, that was not the "bombing" of a country. That was an attack.
Not only was it an isolated attack, but it was not an attack ordered by Afghanistan OR Iraq, yet your gov't proceeded to bomb the living [&@%!] out of both countries. It was an attack carried out by a gang of terrorists and hunting those terrorists should have been the aim of your gov't from the onset. But it wasn't and because of the action of 20 or 30 individuals, two countries were attacked and occupied for 10 years. When the IRA attacked England countless of times, did England respond by bombing Ireland? No, because our gov't was not responsible (I'll add as well that we have no oil in Ireland). When asked, the majority of the Afghan people did not even know about 9/11. Well that invasion is coming to an end, as there's talks of pulling troops out of Afghanistan. Finally, the American military might get the [&@%!] out of the Middle East... But wait! Whaddayaknow, now they've their sights set on Iran!

Massively relevant to the actual topic of mainstream media's bias, fear-mongering and propaganda.

[Wolfie]

Yeah..None taken.
When was the last time America was bombed? If your are referring to the 9/11 attacks, that was not the "bombing" of a country. That was an attack.

Poor choice of words.

Not only was it an isolated attack, but it was not an attack ordered by Afghanistan OR Iraq, yet your gov't proceeded to bomb the living [&@%!] out of both countries.

Sorry but so me one war where this was the case? to fight the pepole we had to go there.
and the way they work we cant just point at a base becuse their pepole are IN the socity, could be anyone, we cant fight an enemy like that becuse the enemny is not shouting "I'm one of tyhem1!!"

It

was an attack carried out by a gang of terrorists and hunting those terrorists should have been the aim of your gov't from the onset.

As far as I can tell it was, we then decide to free them form them.

But it wasn't and because of the action of 20 or 30 individuals, two countries were attacked and occupied for 10 years.

But your forgrting how many want us there.
your actiling like we went there with no one wanting us, while sure some dont a good few do, goverment included

When the IRA attacked England countless of times, did England respond by bombing Ireland? No, because our gov't was not responsible (I'll add as well that we have no oil in Ireland). When asked, the majority of the Afghan people did not even know about 9/11.

lots of pepole dont know about stuff like this, your point?
We are not fighting the civilaions (regardless of what those who think USA goverment is pure evil think)
I'm not claiming the war was right but really saying all of this is not right either.

Massively relevant to the actual topic of mainstream media's bias, fear-mongering and propaganda.[/quote]

[Eltee]

I'd say that the occupation of Ireland was a greater crime than the occupation of Afghanistan.

The Irish people had the full capacity to govern themselves, and if the British pulled out, it wouldn't be at the expense of the Irish. It is the opposite in Afghanistan, I would argue the opposite. The war was waged to destroy the Taliban, one of the most oppressive and brutal governments in modern remembering.

And for chissake, THERE IS NO OIL IN AFGHANISTAN!

[Lindai]

I'd say that the occupation of Ireland was a greater crime than the occupation of Afghanistan.

I probably would too, but what has that got to do with anything? The occupation of Ireland occurred between the 16th and early 20th century. The IRA bombings occurred after that period, when we had independence.

The war was waged to destroy the Taliban, one of the most oppressive and brutal governments in modern remembering.

No it wasn't. There's a reason the war began a month after the 9/11 attacks. Want to end an oppressive and brutal gov't? Go invade North Korea. Oh wait, they're capable of defending themselves.

@Wolfie
I can't understand exactly what you're saying.

[Eltee]

It would be easier to argue that the invasion of Afghanistan occurred to sate the bloodlust of the public at that time. Regardless of the intent behind the invasion, it achieved an indisputably positive effect on Afghanistan.

On the invasion of Iraq... I believe, yes, a military invasion was necessary. Once again, not for the reasons that the war was ultimately fought over. Regardless of the war's intent, it stopped the inevitable slaughter of Iraqi Kurds. I am opposite of supportive of the war in Iraq, but more people were probably saved by the invasion than were killed by it.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

Yes, your gov't should model itself on some aspects of Iran. Like putting defense ahead of bullying offense, and not killing hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterns. Also, by not spending trillions on the business of killing. And Iran is religiously-free and virtually about as democratic as the U.S.A as of now. They also have no intention of attacking the U.S.A. Anyways, your subjective labelling of their culture is irrelevant(I also believe that they are oppressive but that doesn't mean that they should be attacked). Your post did not disprove the fact that the American/Israeli gov'ts are the actual terrorists.

I'll respond to this statement with some words from the President of iran.

[Israel] must be wiped out from the map of the world.

Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,

And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism.