Empire vs Stormcloaks: Modern Combat

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Kidnap Argonians and use them for guerilla warfare. Obvious. Whoever does that wins.

[comeatmebrah]

Stormcloaks would win due to scorching earth tactics and guerilla warfare. The Imperials are too high on their horses to utilise such cheap yet effective techniques.

[Archea47]

Kidnap Argonians and use them for guerilla warfare. Obvious. Whoever does that wins.

I think the khajiit would be better-suited to the climate

[Zero-Sum]

Evenly matched militarily but, the Empire has the Thalmor. That alone tips the scales. Though the Thalmor's motive's are *cough* unclear.

That's debata- nah, that's just plain wrong. Everybody who's read MK knows exactly what the Thalmor want.

And really, the Thalmor would win over both sides. While both sides are fighting, the Thalmor destroy the Weynon Stones, deactivate the Snow Throat, and undo creation. EXACTLY WHY THEY WANTED THE CIVIL WAR TO BE IN A STALEMATE.

[OblivionDuruza]

Zero-Sum, the only problem there is that MK no longer has insight at Bethesda, so we have no way of validating anything he says in terms of actual Canon Bethesda Lore. For all we know, they have something very different in mind than MK.

That aside, the problem I see here is that I doubt the two sides would be evenly technologically matched. The Empire would probably have the upper hand in terms of their arsenal and military technology, and the Stormcloaks would likely be fighting a guerilla war. Solitude is the largest port in Skyrim, and the least prone to the effects of the harsh cold, however Windhelm is a similarly important port, and the terrain and climate might even prove a natural defence. The situation in the Rift benefits the Empire no matter how you look at it, however, Markath is a liability for the Empire. Looking at recent(ish) military history, The Pale and Winterhold Hold might be a huge asset to the Stormcloaks, considering that Russia has successfully fought back numerous invaders from Hitler to Napoleon, thanks to its harsh winters and climate.

[Zero-Sum]

For all we know, they have something very different in mind than MK.

Yes. Totally. It's so obvious that Howard has two things planned for the future - 'simplify' the gameplay even more (somehow), and add more butterflies and salmon.

[TheFuneralPyre]

The Stormcloaks win because they want it more. The Imperial soldiers really just want to go home, and resent being deployed to Skyrim. The Stormcloaks have nothing else to lose, and go all guerilla terrorism on the empire. Eventually, the empire burns out all it's resources, stretches its taxpaying citizens in Cyrodil too far, and collapses. The Thalmor or some other faction takes over the lightly defended Cyrodil and has little interest stretching back into Skyrim.

If the Imperials "win" in Skyrim, the Stormcloaks never actually go away, and the insurgence keeps rekindling. If the Stormcloaks win, the Imperials pack their bags and go home.

This is a very good point. I mean you gotta take the fact of rebellion into consideration... rebels will always rebel even after they lose. The empire could afford to lose Skyrim even though it would be taking a huge hit finacially, but then again the cost of the war would cripple them too, especially if they have to keep sending more troops to skyrim to deal with all of the rebels. I personally think that the Stormcloaks deserve Skyrim because they arent taking it for financial gain like the empire is.... greed always has its repercussions

[Zero-Sum]

Zero-Sum, the only problem there is that MK no longer has insight at Bethesda, so we have no way of validating anything he says in terms of actual Canon Bethesda Lore. For all we know, they have something very different in mind than MK.

And what about the fact that MK still talks with Kurt Kuhlmann? What about the fact that they still included the Psijic Endeavor in the texts, and the excerpt 'From the Many-Headed Talos' in Heimskr's preachings? To completely disregard MK's works would be a folly, just sayin'.

[DorostheConqueror]

Wait... evenly matched, fully equipped? If, hypothetically speaking, they're evenly matched then it would be about 50-50, wouldn't it?

Strategically, of course, the Stormcloaks clearly have the advantage; they're fighting on their home ground and, even if by dumb luck the Empire managed to "win" in the field, all the Storms would have to do is keep boots on the ground long enough for the Empire to give up and go home.

rebels will always rebel even after they lose.

Not necessarily, but I doubt the Empire has the means or the stomach to put the revolution down once and for all.

[OblivionDuruza]

Zero, I'm not saying to totally disregards it, merely that it's not official Canon and as such should not be taken as such. It should not be used as gospel on the Thalmor motivation or grand plan. But this is all besides the point.

[ajrman]

As the Vietnam War has shown us, you cannot truly beat a Guerrilla tactic such as the one the Stormcloaks use. Even with superior firepower and discipline we are still stuck in a stalemate in Afghanistan.

[OblivionDuruza]

Unless of course you use superior technologies like Nuclear weaponry and chemical agents such as Agent Orange, which cause mass destruction and are virtually inescapable.

[Trelares]

This is something that I want to post before you duruza. If you use your full arsenal to all extent (which humanity and rationality normally forbids) it is no problem to destroy even guerrilla warfare with ease. You just have to raze everything from the map with brute force.

[OblivionDuruza]

Yeah, the only problem is that you totally destroy what you're attacking, but the point is that guerilla tactics are not a be all and end all, and not a golden bullet.

[Da_BossMaN69]

No, you can easily win a guerrilla war. But like good ol' Kurtz tried say in 'Apocalypse Now' you need monsters not soldiers to win that type of war. Men who are willing to commit genocide and atrocities to root out, hunt and kill every last nord women, child, who even so much as look as at an Imperial funny. But you can't do it without 100% support.