Lovers of the Thalmor!

[Hissien]

I don't like the thalmor but in their position and genuinely believing that would be best for my people I can't say that I might not do the same. But since they are a blight upon the earth and kill even their own people that don't agree with them........ BURN THEM!

[Jeff]

That particular 'inherent evil' assertion is totally wrong in my eyes.

...and where has anybody said that in this topic?

You keep saying that, in every topic about the Thalmor.

[Hissien]

Eh..... It has been said on other topics though...... Prevention of someone saying it I suppose....

[OblivionDuruza]

Jeff, you can attempt to make it seem that I want to start an argument here, but you're focusing on one very specific line from a number of posts I've made here. The point I am making is simply that nobody is 'evil' and that while to one side an action appears 'wrong' and unjustifiable, to another side it is totally justifiable. A number of people have implied otherwise, indicating that the Thalmor have acted in an immoral or 'wrong' manner, in this thread and in many others, all I wish is for the broader perspective of the conflict to be acknowledged, even if it is not accepted.

[POMC S117]

Duruza, tell me how murder and being religiously oppressive isn't evil.

[Eltee]

This thread is for Thalmor lovers, POMC. BACON STRIPS, HATER!

Really, the Thalmor aren't really any more evil than the Empire and the Stormies. Probably less so than the Stormies, actually.

And they look good doing it, too!

[MARS]

Duruza, tell me how murder and being religiously oppressive isn't evil.

Oh, you mean just like everyone else? Yes, it is. Everyone is evil.

[POMC S117]

I suppose so, whateveryournameis.

[Eltee]

Empire: Evil jackboots with leather skirts.
Stormcloaks: Evil jackboots with generic townguard armour. CHEAPSKATES!
Thalmor: Evil jackboots with epic avianesque Elven armour.

[POMC S117]

Thalmor are worse IMO.

[OblivionDuruza]

Well, everyone is relatively equally 'evil' would be pretty much what I'm trying to say, although I try to avoid labelling people and groups in terms that are so clear-cut as 'good, 'evil' and 'bad'. There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it, an' all that jazz

[MARS]

In this case I resort to using the same terms as the one I'm arguing in against. I usually do that, actually.

Thalmor are worse IMO.

Because they're a new variable in the equation.

[POMC S117]

Duruza has no nose!

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Empire: Evil jackboots with leather skirts.
Stormcloaks: Evil jackboots with generic townguard armour. CHEAPSKATES!
Thalmor: Evil jackboots with epic avianesque Elven armour.

I agree. The Thalmor are not only winners, they look good winning. They are the exciting up-and-comers who go from strength to strength. They make the ever more moribund empire (Imperials) and the hick Nordic racist reactionaries (Stormcloaks) look like a pack of losers by contrast.

[GhostOfNumenor]

There are very few "evil" people/organizations, but there are always evil actions and intentions.

The Thalmor, while they themselves might not be evil, are indeed guilty of both their actions and intentions. Between the ethnic pogroms against their own people and the Bosmer, and now their rounding-up of Talos worshipers in foreign lands, the Thalmor have indeed committed evil acts, and their intentions are malignant towards anyone/everyone outside of the Thalmor (even their own). Say what you will about the Empire, they haven't come close to the level of cleansing and oppression the Thalmor have already reached.

On a side note about the "fashion", I think it's funny that the Empire in their "leather skirts" still managed to whoop the Thalmor in their "epic avianesque Elven armour"

[Will Zurmacht]

The point I am making is simply that nobody is 'evil' and that while to one side an action appears 'wrong' and unjustifiable, to another side it is totally justifiable.

It's a quixotic exercise to try and convert the public at large to moral relativism. The notion is unnatural, scholarly, "objective." Most people recognize it immediately as being incredibly cynical.

The only nice thing about them: The outfits.

I agree. The Thalmor are not only winners, they look good winning.

Evil Is Sexy.
Evil Is Stylish.
Man Of Wealth And Taste.
Wicked Cultured.
High Collar of Doom.
Aristocrats Are Evil.

How many subliminal fantasy tropes could Beth cram into one faction to drive home its simultaneous "inherent evilness" and exotic attraction? Answer: ALL of the tropes!

[Hissien]

Thalmor are worse IMO.

Is this because they are "evil" or because they are mer?

[OblivionDuruza]

The point I am making is simply that nobody is 'evil' and that while to one side an action appears 'wrong' and unjustifiable, to another side it is totally justifiable.

It's a quixotic exercise to try and convert the public at large to moral relativism. The notion is unnatural, scholarly, "objective." Most people recognize it immediately as being incredibly cynical.

I agree, it is a quixotic endeavour, but a great man once told me that it is the responsibility of each of us to confront the tide of ignorance. I don't see it as cynical to see that the Thalmor have a side too, I also don't think that the Thalmor have committed artocities worse than the other races, particularly the Alessians, the Dwemer, the Nords, the Falmer, the Argonians, etc.

[Jeff]

it is the responsibility of each of us to confront the tide of ignorance.

Really ...so who's ignorance are you confronting here?

Despite all the inappropriate and near rule-violating comments,

I do have to agree with this one...

[OblivionDuruza]

Again Jeff, you're taking select parts of my posts and twisting my words, as everyone can see, I do have a contention which I have stated and explicated numerous times and it has nothing to do with belittling others, or claiming that my view is more correct; that reference was a joke, but I will happily retract it if you desire. Just let it be known that you are no more an arbiter of right or wrong than anyone else, even if you are an ex-moderator and just because you disagree with something, does not make it wrong, clearly we have a difference of opinion in this matter, so let's respect each other's right to an opinion and leave it at that. To insinuate that I, or anyone else has broken the rules her is totally inaccurate and there has been a lot worse 'flaming' directed towards people who have not shared ideas about the Empire/Stormcloak debate and the Thalmor issue in the past. I think we all mature enough not to begin pointing that particular finger because nothing said here should be taken personally and I must apologise if anything is misinterpreted.

[Hissien]

Let's all calm down........... Since this really is just a game.........

[GhostOfNumenor]

Jeff, I'm not sure why you're singling-out Duruza on this particular thread. He hasn't said anything here that's particularly inflaming, and I can't recall him using personal attacks in other threads. All he's done here is share his opinion, and then defended it when he felt someone countering it. Please calm down and stop fanning something that wasn't there in the first place; I'd hate to see yet another thread get closed over something really dumb.

Back on-topic, I don't think the Thalmor are particularly original in their intentions, but they are certainly more refined in their implementation of them.

[Hissien]

Does anyone else question their involvement in the Jone and Jode thing?

[GhostOfNumenor]

I do. Its highly unlikely they had any involvement.

[Tarquin Dynatus]

They took credit for ending the Oblivion Crisis when we all know they didn't. I'm sure they weren't slow to turn the Void Nights to their geopolitical advantage.