Lovers of the Thalmor!

[i-m-so-ghett0]

I wish the Thalmor were more interesting. Then they would be a lot cooler and I would want to kill them, not just oh another Thalmor what a jerk.

[GhostOfNumenor]

I wish there was something that could be said about the Thalmor that could balance out their near-evil goals/personalities to make it a little harder to just plain hate them.

[Hissien]

I hate what they do to our "brethren". Give us bad names and make nords comment on me every time I walk into town......


But as an evil no one does it better than them.....

[Belgarion98]

I used to have a lot of respect for High Elves.....'till they tried to KILL me.

[OblivionDuruza]

Thanks

To better clarify why I like the Thalmor, it can mostly come out of respect for what they had to go through. After all of their experiences, they were courageous to come out and take actions (Skyrim being a good example)

See, I admire their tenacity and I believe I can understad their position. Man has dominated Mer on Tamriel for several Eras, and originally, Mer ruled Tamriel unopposed. The Altmer want to reforge the Aldmeri Dominion and take back what was theirs, they also don't much like Man, but that in itself doesn't make them evil.

[Jeff]

Did not the First Man Dynasty come about because the Men Races rebelled against their Mer Slave Master Overlords?

It probably would still be theirs, if they had not treated the Men as Slaves... Dominating and Subjugating them.

Yes, the Alesian Order did treat the Mer poorly back then, but the wounds that the Mer inflicted upon them, were still Fresh.

The Septim Dynasty treated all Races fairly equal. It was the Dunmer in Morrowind who had Slaves, not the Empire. In fact, even though it was illegal, the Empire still allowed Morrowind to Rule itself, and have Slaves.

Yes, the Mede Empire is different. ...but the Altmer are not Rebelling because of the Domination, Subjugation, or poor treatment of the Mer Races. ...they are doing so, because they see the Mede Empire as weak, and are taking advantage of the situation.

[OblivionDuruza]

Well I believe my assertion still stands, because it is true that the Mer are envious of Man, because their initial and original position was one of superiority, that they naturally wish to return to. I don't mean that the Mer are subjugated by any stretch, I mean that the world is not 'as it should be' in their eyes and yes, now is as good a time as any to reclaim their 'right'. Some might call that evil, I'd call it natural, human nature even.

[Jeff]

..., but it does, and has gone both ways. We could argue who threw the first stone... but it is still a matter of two wrongs do not make it right. It has to end sometime... who will be the first one to break the bread, and stop throwing stones.

[Will Zurmacht]

It has to end sometime... who will be the first one to break the bread, and stop throwing stones.

The will to the end of struggle is the will to death. Struggle is the fundamental fact of everything that lives... and that wants to grow stronger.

[GhostOfNumenor]

I don't think jealousy/envy qualifies as justification for ethnic cleansing and/or subjugation.

[Jeff]

It has to end sometime... who will be the first one to break the bread, and stop throwing stones.

The will to the end of struggle is the will to death. Struggle is the fundamental fact of everything that lives... and that wants to grow stronger.

I could agree to that. One should always struggle against oppression. I don't think that applies here.

...what are the Altmer Struggling against?

There is a difference between the Struggle for freedom against your oppressors... and attacking someone who is not oppressing you, just so that you can oppress them, to punish them for the sins of the past.

[ZENX49]

I believe the Altmers had the potential to unite and become the most affluent and technically advanced society of all Tamriel, even exceeding the Dwemer in advancement, if but only the Thalmor would focus solely on making their nation self-sufficient and stop wasting irreplaceable amounts of resources and mages on the subjugation and herding of the humans. Had all that effort been spent learning and cultivating their minds rather than tempering their zeal for absolute power, they could have had everything they ever wanted. No, instead they want to chase and quash legends and poorly administrated empires. In an Altmer's lifetime, they will have learned nothing in their little feudalistic monopoly on the mundanes.

[Will Zurmacht]

Seems to me they had largely achieved the goals you mentioned, substituting magical talent for technological. What they had not done was translate their advantages into political supremacy. Pent up power wants to be released, else it becomes toxic.

[MrPuddings]

I was very disappointed you couldn't work with or join the Thalmor, even if you were a High Elf or Wood Elf. I remember there being one quest where you could assist them with rooting out a Talos worshiper. However, that never lead to anything else other than a few gold as a reward.

Their ambitions are huge, I think that's why I like them so much. I realize their end goals are horrible, but it makes them fantastic villains for sure.

[Archea47]

I was very disappointed you couldn't work with or join the Thalmor, even if you were a High Elf or Wood Elf.

Same here. I created an Altmer mage for that very purpose and stopped playing him when I read here that you couldn't join the Thalmor.

I've viewed the Aldmeri Dominion in Tamriel being akin to the spread of Christianity in Pagan lands, often using brutal methods to stop the conquered from worshipping their 'false' Talos/gods

[GhostOfNumenor]

I've viewed the Aldmeri Dominion in Tamriel being akin to the spread of Christianity in Pagan lands, often using brutal methods to stop the conquered from worshipping their 'false' Talos/gods

Careful..you could use a lot of different examples of this throughout history without naming just one specific group; I'm not offended, but someone else may be and I'd really hate to see any kind of flame-war start over a relatively innocuous subject.

It actually still occurs quite a bit in today's world (not naming anywhere specific), albeit in different forms; ranging from mere peer/political-pressure to full-on genocide.

[OblivionDuruza]

You guys misunderstand me, I don't mean that the Thalmor are 'right' or justified in their actions, but by the same token I don't see them as wrong or 'evil'. In my eye, all there is is competing and conflicting drives, neither side, Man or Mer, is 'right', justified or 'good', and in a perfect world, I would have people understand that there are always two sides, and generally, one is not more right than the other. My aim is to spread appreciation, not to justify the actions of the Thalmor.

[POMC S117]

I'm sorry, but I can't appreciate oppressors.

[Hissien]

I do wonder if the thalmor even brought back jone and jode......

Also men have oppressed mer as well. Neither side is right or wrong. The thalmor are doing what we have seen men do when they have power. I do hate the thalmor but I respect their motives. They want to return to the golden age before man. That said their methods are questionable. Why ban talos? It doesn't help or harm humans in any real way.

[POMC S117]

I know that but when was the last time they did that?

[Will Zurmacht]

They want to return to the golden age before man. That said their methods are questionable. Why ban talos? It doesn't help or harm humans in any real way.

Therein lies the rub. Do we really know what the Thalmor ultimately desire? Not gobbledygook that lorecrafters wrote in the Beforetime of Skyrim, or conclusions drawn from it, but what the goals are of the current Thalmor shot callers. Great War. WGC. Which are the ends, and which are merely means? All the activity smacks of a deliberate distraction from some other objective.

[Swampy]

I dont quite get why people love them. They look down on everyone except themselves.

[Hissien]

I know that but when was the last time they did that?

Well the alessian order was probably the most major. The nords oppress dunmer but that's a minor thing. The only thing I can say that men seem to be better at is not enslaving entire races of people.

[POMC S117]

There you go then. Also, only some Nords do.

[OblivionDuruza]

It's not about the number of crimes committed, it's a question of motivation. The Alessians committed terrible crimes, which can be justified by Man because Man associates with the reason behind the crimes of the Alessians and the Marukhati. The same goes for the Thalmor, they're 'evil' in the eyes of Man because they are contrary to Man, not because they are inherently 'evil'. That particular 'inherent evil' assertion is totally wrong in my eyes.