A theroy on dragon borns.

[Wolfie]

A lot of pepole us an excuse that Tiber's brother taking over the blood line is proof that dragon born is not in the blood, I, however, disagree. Tiber was never said to be the only dragonborn in his family, it seems far more likely the rest of his family was as well. the reasson for this is there is no sign at all, of evrey signle dragon born evre being worth a blessing, bur one thing almost all of them have in common is with a few exceptions (and not really exceptons AFAIK there was never a time where we SEE a offspring not being one) their off springs where also dragon borns.
Now going with the Idea that Talos family was blessed with it and not just him makes since as seeing that the rest of the family did the excat same thing, all family members where blessed.

Now you have the whole "but the dragon fires bunred even when a family member was not on the throne!"

The gem was of Ayleid origin, but the particulars of its creation and use by the elves is not known. It entered the annals of human history when Akatosh (in some stories Shezarr) forged the Covenant with Alessia and her (symbolic) descendants while she lay in her death bed. Chim-el Adabal was fastened in an amulet and became both the symbol of the Covenant and of the legitimacy of Cyrodiil's rulers.[1][3] Following the breakup of the Alessian Empire, the Amulet of Kings was lost amidst chaotic civil war and its attendant looting. According to legend, a certain King Hrol tracked down the spirit of Saint Alessia, who wore the Amulet of Kings around her neck. They coupled, and a hill rose on the spot. The infant Reman Cyrodiil was found upon the crest, wearing the amulet on his brow.[4] In any event, the Amulet of Kings was restored to prominence during the Reman years, lending legitimacy to that dynasty. Since that time, the Dragonfires ritual has become essential to the coronation of each new Emperor. During the ritual, the new monarch is soul-linked to the Amulet of Kings and sent to the Temple of the One to light the enchanted Dragonfires, which burn until his death. After the long decline of the Interregnum, general Talos reputedly recovered the amulet from the tomb of the Remans beneath Sancre Tor after retaking it from the Nordic and Breton invaders.[5]

Going by this, there was many times when the dragon fires where not lit and while the math is a bit hard for me, it seems like evrey single (or almost all) of the so called "non related" ones where duyring the time the amulet was missing, in other words they did not light the dragon fires and we dont know fi they really where Dragon Born
heck for a while they did not even light the draggon fires.

Any thgouts?

[Dark Spark]

I have a theory of my own: we know that the Amulet of Kings contained the essence of Akatosh, who is the big daddy of all dragons. A part of his soul is in that stone. So, when that stone comes in contact with a Dovahkiin, a little bit of Akatosh's soul is absorbed into them.

This does two things: prove the wearer is a Dragonborn (even if they live in an age where there are no dragons); and it infuses the newly anointed Dragonborn with the power to command the Dragonfires, maintain the barrier to Oblivion, and to be a general badass.

Without the Amulet transferring a piece of Akatosh's soul, any potential Dragonborn may eke out his destiny as some farmer in the middle of a desert with no hope for glory. One has to seek out the other in order to make the legend happen.

And the Amulet in the hands of a non-Dovahkiin is just a pretty rock.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

The times when the amulet was missing, there was no Emperor. They're called Interregnums for a reason.

There have been three Interregnums, some of them lasting much longer than others, when there has been no central Monarch in Cyrodill and the Empire has crumbled.

After the collapse of the Alessian Empire, it was a very long time before Reman appeared wielding the Amulet and relit the fires. That was the first Interregnum. You can read a lot about it in the Remanada, the decline after the Alessian Order. It was hundreds of years before Reman appeared.

After Reman III's death, the fires were out for another extended period until Tiber reunified the land and recovered the Amulet. They burned again until Uriel VII's death. There are various sources mentioned in the UESP article for Interregnum.

The final Interregnum is interesting, in that it's both permanent in a way (there's no Amulet and no Dragonfires to be lit any more) and that it only lasted about a decade before an Emperor unified Cyrodill and the human provinces again. It could be argued by some that an Interregnum is still going on because the current Dynasty is not Dragonborn and does not light the fires. It could also be argued that this is no longer necessary and Martin's sacrifice is a sort of permanent Dragonfire. The fact the Mede Dynasty has ruled for nearly 200 years without any major popular uprisings against them within their own lands lends them credibility, but being crippled by the Thalmor and having to abandon Talos worship may represent the beginning of a new decline.

[Dark Spark]

If the barrier to Oblivion is now permanently established without need for the Dragonfires, how is it then that we see Daedra persisting for indefinite periods of time in the world?

If anything, the darkening of the Dragonfires and the destruction of the Amulet means we're back to the "bad old days" we read in storybooks, where Daedra could manifest themselves at will and cause mischief on Nirn.

[Wolfie]

If the barrier to Oblivion is now permanently established without need for the Dragonfires, how is it then that we see Daedra persisting for indefinite periods of time in the world?

Where do we seem them doing that?

[Dark Spark]

In. The. Game.

Goat thievery. The doggie. Vacation's over.

No need for some fancy-schmancy ritual to bump into them folk.

[Wolfie]

In. The. Game.

Goat thievery. The doggie. Vacation's over.

No need for some fancy-schmancy ritual to bump into them folk.

They can apear, but nothing says they stay forever.
while yes for "us" they do, plainly speaking Aduin and the oblvion criises can never be finsihed to.

[Trelares]

In Skyrim we have only seen lords (sheo and sanguine) or "parts" of them (barbas). It could still be that strong daedra can cross over to Tamriel on their own will but are limited in their power here so that they can not be a big problem, like dagon in Oblivion.

[Dark Spark]

Kids, they're here. Doing things. Open your eyes to the possibilities.

[Da_BossMaN69]

Sheo pulls you into his realm and Sanguine uses a dremora as a representation, that's not his 'true' form at all. Mora has to use a black hole to manifest some of his power.

The whole point of Oblivion was that the Daedra were invading in full force taking over the landscape and population they were turning Mundus into Oblivion. Were do we see this in Skyrim, throwing a fork around in a small room in markarth hardly qualifies as being there in your full power.

[Narzul]

After releasing Velehk Sain from his magical imprisonment he says he belongs on his ship and then promptly leaves to go look for it. He seems to have no trouble manifesting on Mundus and he's "merely" a Dremora.

[Trelares]

Velehk Sain, could be an interesting exception. It seems he has bound his essence (I don't want to speak about his soul, cause he is a dremora) to Nirn somehow. So most likely he "counts" as tamrielic being and is not affected by the permanent shielding.

Or you could just be pedant and say: It says Nirn is now permanently shielded from daedra that want to invade Nirn from Oblivion, but if a daedra is in Nirn (e.g: through a summoning) it has bypassed this restricton.

[Hissien]

The gauntlet alone would lend that he is an exception. Daedra have always been able to be bound. Daedric ruins in morrowind? Conjurers in skyrim? I think sanguine used one of his followers to channel his essence.

[Gideon Dragontongue]

Velehk Sain, could be an interesting exception. It seems he has bound his essence (I don't want to speak about his soul, cause he is a dremora) to Nirn somehow. So most likely he "counts" as tamrielic being and is not affected by the permanent shielding.

Or you could just be pedant and say: It says Nirn is now permanently shielded from daedra that want to invade Nirn from Oblivion, but if a daedra is in Nirn (e.g: through a summoning) it has bypassed this restricton.

I would say so...

[Pilaf The Defiler]

It's more than possible for individual lesser Daedra to be permanently bound to Mundus, barrier or no. The Old Covenant never guarded against this. In fact, in Morrowind there were ruins filled to the brim with bound Daedra. What the Covenant did was prevent stable, large portals between dimensions - the type used for invasions.

[Anonymous98223]

Also, if a new barrier hadn't been created after the Oblivion Crisis then there would of been nothing to prevent Mehrunes Dagon from just returning and opening up new Oblivion Gates, so there must of been something. Things seem to have gone back to normal, at least concerning the Munduses barriers.

[philfredobob]

well , if you look at the places where the daedric princes appear it always seems to be near a place of their worship and/or a place of significant importance to them (with the exception of sanguine , who is a complete mystery and ruins everything i worked for during Oblivion !!!!!!) dagon summons 2 dremora next to his shrine , molag bal moves a fork and a basket around a house above his shrine , hermeaus mora appears as a strange void near his oghma infinium , and while barbas is able to walk the earth , neither him nor clavicus have any significant ability (barbas is a dog , clavicus is stuck in a cave ) , nocturnal appears above one of her artifacts in an old shrine to her, meridia teleports you near a shrine to her , peryite only apears before you at a shrine after you summon him , mephala is only able to whisper to people near the ebony blade to rescue her blade , malacath is only summoned to speak at a shrine in an orcish stronghold and does not show any significant power over anything (the ''curse'' in the quest is nothing more than a weak and cowardly cheif) , sheogorath teleports you when you enter the pelagius wing of the blue palace which is apparently haunted (must be that he has some power over it due to its connection to pelagius the mad ) azura contacts and teleports you while you stand at her shrine and also gets you concent to do so , boethia controls the body of the people who die near her shrine , hircine is a bit of a mystery though i cant understand how he does what he does ... uh ... i cant remember the rest ..

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Hircine inhabited a deer physically. That's hardly impressive or anywhere near his full power.

[SajuukKhar]

well , if you look at the places where the daedric princes appear it always seems to be near a place of their worship and/or a place of significant importance to them (with the exception of sanguine , who is a complete mystery and ruins everything i worked for during Oblivion !!!!!!) dagon summons 2 dremora next to his shrine , molag bal moves a fork and a basket around a house above his shrine , hermeaus mora appears as a strange void near his oghma infinium , and while barbas is able to walk the earth , neither him nor clavicus have any significant ability (barbas is a dog , clavicus is stuck in a cave ) , nocturnal appears above one of her artifacts in an old shrine to her, meridia teleports you near a shrine to her , peryite only apears before you at a shrine after you summon him , mephala is only able to whisper to people near the ebony blade to rescue her blade , malacath is only summoned to speak at a shrine in an orcish stronghold and does not show any significant power over anything (the ''curse'' in the quest is nothing more than a weak and cowardly cheif) , sheogorath teleports you when you enter the pelagius wing of the blue palace which is apparently haunted (must be that he has some power over it due to its connection to pelagius the mad ) azura contacts and teleports you while you stand at her shrine and also gets you concent to do so , boethia controls the body of the people who die near her shrine , hircine is a bit of a mystery though i cant understand how he does what he does ... uh ... i cant remember the rest ..

Actually, the Daedric lords can pretty much summon avatars of themselves wherever, so long as they do not intended to invade, as that is what the barrier prevents.

Sanguine and Hircine could walk around Skyrim pretty freely.

[Anonymous98223]

I don't think it works exactly like that, I don't think they could appear in some giant form like Mehrunes Dagon did in the middle of a city and just go for a walk, but seeing how there "not invading" everything's cool.

[SajuukKhar]

I think showing up in giant city destroying size would be considered a hostile act.

Admittedly though, we dont know much about the rules of the barrier beyond "it stops hostile attempts to enter Mundus". What exactly that entails, and how they determine "hostile" is unknown.

[philfredobob]

yeah , i mean it allowed Mehrunes dagon to send 2 dremoras into Mundus to attack you for not pleasing him , i'd say thats pretty hostile .
for example , what if he were to send in a very talented Dremora warrior , who was able to fight through hundreds of warriors (like the dragonborn) and kill important people ?
dun , dun ,DUUUUUUUN!!!!

[SajuukKhar]

Two Dremoa isn't a hostile invasion, and again the technicalities of the barrier are unknown, just that it prevents Daedra Lords from sending in armies, or coming into Mundus in their true form.

[philfredobob]

yeah i know 2 dremora isnt exactly an invasion force , but what if as i said , Dagon sends in some kind of dremora Commando ? one that could single handedly execute a plan to take over ? would Dagon be blocked simply for his intentions ? or does he need to try and send an army to have the barriers block him ?

[SajuukKhar]

I doubt that there is such a Dremora in existence.

And maybe, we really dont know how the barrier works.

Dagon being able to summon two Dremora was most likely only possible because it was at his shrine, and shrines are typically immune from several of the rules.