SOPA/ACTA Watch

[Dark Lord Cam]

No it isn't. They're signing the international treaty. Different names, duh.

[DeeJay]

Except we all admit this will stop piracy to some exstent (better then anything eles can)
and what internet rights are they breaking?
If I have ilegal stuff in my house they dont break any laws by closing me down (so to speak)

On January 16, 1919, the United States ratified the 18th Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibited the "...manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States..." and on October 28, 1919, congress passed the Volstead Act to enforce the law
(citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibitio ... ted_States)

What followed until 1933 when the law was repealed, was a very interesting example of how our government turned a lot of normal, law abiding citizens into "criminals". It wasn't against the law to consume alcohol, but it was against the law to make it and sell it (and buy it).

What does this have to do with SOPA? Simple: it's a very good example of how a government thinks passing a law will simply stop something, when in reality, it never stopped it, caused situations to get even worse (organized crime), and simply made people find ways around it (bootlegging, moonshine making, speak-easys, etc).

Now, I don't like SOPA and how it reads, but it does raise valid concerns, and it's NOT just about greedy Hollywood producers, or software media giants. It's also about people using the internet to purchase counterfeit goods, like medications, which is a bit more dangerous than bootleg copies of Skyrim or the latest Hollywood block buster. Buying drugs online from another country to save money, and you just might be putting yourself at risk health-wise. Many scams are run this way, and instead of that antibiotic that you THOUGHT you were getting, you're popping sugar pills instead.

So our government wants to stop this. That's a great and noble idea, to try and protect both your consumers and your producers. But, you can't make the cure worse than the problem:

Patient: "Doctor, I've got a wart on my nose, can you fix this?"
Doctor: "Sure can! Nurse! Cut his head off."

Instead of putting on storm trooper boots, what they need to be doing is looking at the source of the problem. Supply and Demand: if no one is interested in getting pirated or counterfeit things, then the supply goes way down.

So why DO people download movies and games illegally? Why DO people go online and buy cheap drugs from another country?"

I think the answer should be obvious! Because for many it's cheaper, or available in an easy way.

Prices for drugs in our country, even generic ones, is outrageous. I know. I suffer from diabetes and high blood pressure. I have to take 2 different meds, twice a day for the diabetes, and another for the high blood pressure. If I see I can get my drugs cheaper online from another country, it doesn't take a lot of motivation to want to do so, as right now, it's very tough for us to get all our bills paid, food on the table, and gas in the car. I'll just use this web site and pay a lot less for my drugs.
Except if they are fake or expired, not only did I get ripped off, but I could end up with an even more serious medical condition (kidney failure), or dead.
Lucky me, I'm a veteran and get my meds through the VA, and it cost me a LOT less then for most people, so I'm getting the real deal, and not gambling with my life, just so I can save money to pay the bills and put food on the table.

So there's a good source right there: get the cost of drugs lowered (yes, I know, there is no magic wand for this, but it still shows if you get things more reasonable, the consumer will gladly not use an online web site from another country, but will instead be happy to go to Walgreens, or where ever is legit to get their meds if they don't have to pay through the nose for them).

Movies and Games: it cost me just as much to go to the movies as it does to eat at a very expensive restaurant. It's outrageous! I'm normally patient enough to wait for it to come out on DVD so I can either rent it from Netflix or buy the thing, or...yep, you could go somewhere on the web and watch it for free.
Now, I know they can't offer the movies for free, hey, you have to get that movie paid for. But at the same time, it should not be so expensive to go see a movie. I can remember when I was a lot younger, and as a kid, going to the movies was great! And it didn't take a small signature loan to pay for it.

Games: Like movies, I'm a patient man. When I heard Skyrim was going to be released last November, I was excited, but I also knew I'd be waiting. Waiting means that down the road, instead of $60, I can get it for $40 or less. Wait even longer, and maybe it will be even cheaper.
Well I didn't have to wait, as Steam helped with that, by offering the game on sale. During Christmas, because Steam offered the game at such a low price, not only did I get Skyrim, I was able to get 2 copies of Portal 2! One for me and one for my son.
But not everyone is patient, and many want the games the day they come out, heh, I can understand that. But many will go out and download it from somewhere as a pirated copy, because it was cheaper or free.

I think Valve's CEO said it correctly: "The best way to combat online piracy is to offer better service to your customers."
Sure, getting that bootleg copy was either free or very low in price (lower than the legit version), but what if by buying the legit version, gives you access to all sorts of wonderful things that you can NOT get with the pirated version? That still may not be enough, but if you lowered the price of the legit version, AND offered those things, consumers will more likely go legit.

None of this will stop ALL online piracy. It will always be there, like anything else. The idea is to get the piracy to not impact us so much, and I really think the best way to do that is to go after the people offering the product in the first place. Get them to not be so greedy, and they'll find their loss in revenue is greatly reduced.
Doing it this way also keeps my government out of my internet, where I don't think they belong.

[DorostheConqueror]

Except we all admit this will stop piracy to some exstent (better then anything eles can)

No, we don't, and no, it won't. And even if this WAS the case, it's clear to most of us that the cost is not worth the dubious "benefits".

and what internet rights are they breaking?
If I have ilegal stuff in my house they dont break any laws by closing me down (so to speak)

They do if, on mere suspicion of you having material which may not even be illegal, but which a private corporation thinks you shouldn't have, a representative of the entertainment industry shuts down your car, your school, your grocery store, and all the roads within a twenty mile radius of your house, before raiding your house and feeding you to the prison industrial system. I don't mean to sound rude here, but you don't seem to know very much about what exactly these pieces of legislation are or what exactly they'd mean if they got passed. I posted a laundry list of objections earlier, which I'll reprint for brevity's sake:

The international community already has laws in place to combat piracy- things like the DMCA. SOPA is an entirely different beast; it gives sweeping powers of oversight to copyright holders, overturns more than a thousand years of legal precedent by presuming guilt, places unreasonable burdens on webmasters and ISPs, KILLS the notion of data privacy, undermines the design principles upon which Web 2.0 rests (essentially making the era of user-generated content, such as this very webpage, a thing of the past), seriously disrupts the ability of "hacktivists" to operate and keep information flowing within explicitly authoritarian regimes, and worst of all, grants copyright holders, in practice if not entirely in theory, the ability to create, interpret, and enforce copyright laws as they see fit, rather than keeping them beholden to the law, a loophole that's kept them from arbitrarily enforcing their will for well over a decade now (and longer, if we view this recent spate of attacks within the broader framework of historical copyright laws). SOPA, if passed, would kill the world's largest and fastest growing industry, costing millions of jobs, and not just "phantom" jobs that the MPAA and RIAA claim are being lost to "piracy". It'll doom whatever nation's adopt such measures to the dustbin of digital history.

Every last one of these issues, taken by themselves let alone in totality, should be enough to send reasonable individuals into fits!

Now, as anyone who's seen my posts on Cactopia should know, I'm a bit of a capitalist extremist. I've got nothing against greedy [&@%!] making an obscene amount of money, if that cash is given to them freely and voluntarily, by informed consumers who like what's on offer. But this goes way beyond mere class conflict; this is a clear case of dying monopolies trying to secure their place as an entrenched aristocracy, by thoroughly violating the rights of all consumers and using state coercion to kill thousands of successful businesses and a growing, highly advanced market that the dinosaurs have failed to adapt to.

[Kerr]

Just slow down a second guys, SOPA is being passed in Ireland as we speak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3FpBzs ... AAAAAAATAA

This is getting serious. We NEED to stand up and do something!

Uggh I may actually go up to Dublin to protest outside the Dail if it passes and effects my internet freedom.

[The Dog Whisperer]

Yeah, because there are so many there who care about this legislation: http://i.imgur.com/wkHqU.png :\

[Kerr]

Yeah, because there are so many there who care about this legislation: http://i.imgur.com/wkHqU.png :\

Disgrace this is their job. Do what the taxpayers elected and pay you for.

[The Dog Whisperer]

http://www.thejournal.ie/sherlock-agree ... 5-Jan2012/
So there's that, for "Irish Sopa". What's-his-face is a joke, though. I seen some pics of his website where he was using copyrighted logos the other day.
Then his site went down and they were changed. lol
ACTA is different, [Which was confused earlier] and even though it's been signed now it still has to go before the European Parliament. (I've heard there's a few against it there- such as)

[DorostheConqueror]

Yo, check this out:

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#! ... s/DffX0YQv

It's a petition asking the White House to investigate chief MPAA lobbyist and former corrupt senator Chris Dodd on charges of bribery, stemming from those comments he made a week ago re: Hollywood threatening to not pay Democrats if their pet pieces of legislation didn't get passed. The petition already has more than enough signatures to reach it's goal, but the more the merrier, right? Two things to consider:

1) Chris Dodd is a [&@%!], and a primary corporate architect of SOPA in the United States. Taking him down would be a big step in the right direction.
2) He really IS trying to bribe Obama and Congress. More importantly, he clearly and unambiguously admitted his intent to bribe, which is illegal. Corporate bodies can (and do) get away with subtle and covert bribes, but open bribery? Even if you support SOPA/PIPA, the law dictates that he face justice.

[StinkyJozef]

Microsoft was planning to add a feature to the next console that once you bought a new game you could only play it on that console.

Expect more of that being proposed for other hardware and software.

[POMC S117]

A man named Miguel Carano murdered and raped a woman and is facing 20 years in prison -- Kim Schmitz (owner of MegaUpload) is facing 50, due to SOPA.

[DorostheConqueror]

His arrest wasn't due to SOPA but rather due to pre-existing copyright laws, his conspicuous lifestyle, and the fact that he couldn't keep his fat mouth shut (rather like Chris Dodd and the bribery admission). Still, it can and should be viewed within the context of the broader war on the internet, and the timing was perfect.

Kim Schmitz is a tool, but he doesn't deserve fifty years.

[POMC S117]

Oh...

[Spiney]

Microsoft was planning to add a feature to the next console that once you bought a new game you could only play it on that console.

Expect more of that being proposed for other hardware and software.

Source?

[DorostheConqueror]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this: http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay- ... ts-120116/ tl;dr summary- The Pirate Bay (probably the single largest online piracy hub, and the sort of thing SOPA hopes to kill... along with the rest of the net) has launched a free artist promotion service, essentially giving zero-cost high traffic advertising to any media producer who wants it.

How cool is that?

Say what you want about TPB and pirates in general, but that's a stroke of genius. Dangle free advertising in front of artists (EVERYONE likes free advertising, and for the vast sea of indie producers, the sheer scale makes this a potential life changer), defuse the controversy by contrasting the hippie-dippie "free love" spirit of piracy with corporate greed, and make a direct point about the importance of exposure outweighing potential loss of sales. Sometimes you've got to adapt to survive. Hollywood still hasn't learned that lesson, the pirates have.

[The Dog Whisperer]

Anyone (Of the 4/5 of you, or so) watch the Dáil debate? People "acting the maggot" and such.
Highlights from Stephen Donnelly: First, Second
Sherlock's final words were that it's wording won't be changed, though. :\

[Eltee]

Not quite necroposting at two weeks old. The trend continues northward...
'C-30'
This law, if it passes, will give the Canadian government the right to sweeping online rights without warrants, depriving Canadians of the online freedom we currently enjoy. To add to the audacity, a spokesperson of the ruling Conservative Party has accused any who oppose the bill of 'siding with the Child P*rnographers,' a ludicrous statement.

[POMC S117]

Stupid Tories being stupid.

[JVElEven]

Send them e-mails accusing them of turning You into China.

[Veck]

Stupid Tories being stupid.

I've no doubt that plenty of Leftfielders are behind these bills as well for equally stupid reasons. And that plenty of righties recognise just how idiotic the bills are.

[Dean]

Stupid Tories being stupid.

No, that's an idiot being an idiot. This has nothing to do with your political alignment.

[Veck]

There is some political alignment involved (a right winger would place corporations higher than a left winger most of the time) but yes, you are right, any vaguely intelligent politician would be against it.

[DorostheConqueror]

Send them e-mails accusing them of turning You into China.

Isn't that what the Canadian government wants? You'll have to specify that they're turning into China now, post Deng Xiaoping, in hopes that the looming threat of massive corporate benefits, no labour rights, and a thriving economy as a result, will be enough to scare them off.

At any rate, you guys can always come down here to the States! We speak English, our borders are paper-thin, and Jim Carrey lives here now. You'll feel right at home! But please no hockey fans or French Canadians.

To add to the audacity, a spokesperson of the ruling Conservative Party has accused any who oppose the bill of 'siding with the Child P*rnographers,' a ludicrous statement.

I know, right? That statement is totally ludicrous. We HAVE to side with them, because if we don't, the Child P*rnographer lobby will cut off millions of dollars worth of funding for the next election campaign!

Whoops, shouldn't have said that out loud! I hope my recent public admission of how corporate interests control our legislative decisions doesn't lead to campaign finance reform!