SOPA/ACTA Watch

[Eltee]

I'm serious. That would be both space-saving and entertaining. I apologize for the uneccesary rhetoric, Frosty. You da man.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I have a better and less offensive idea, why don't we just make a thread called "SOPA Watch" and cram all the other SOPA threads into one festering mass

[Frost Mage]

I have a better and less offensive idea, why don't we just make a thread called "SOPA Watch" and cram all the other SOPA threads into one festering mass

This.

Jeez, Frosty. You should make a thread entitled 'Frosty's Kooky Korner' and post your continual quasi-thought provoking take on innocent comments instead of making a new thread every time a politician sneezes.

This was just a simple question, and I already knew that Obama was against SOPA, so I wasn't really worried too much in the first place. And it seems like these days piracy control is only referred to as SOPA, and I'm sick of people slamming me calling me crazy. Please, it's childish.

[Eltee]

To offer my idea in a less offensive fashion (I truly am sorry, I feel quite guilty right now),
I think you should make a thread where you can regularly make observations and deductions on the world of politics based on your own unique, and rather interesting and (like any other viewpoint) valid viewpoint. As in, instead of making a series of threads which all deal with a similar subject matter, perhaps you should group them all kind of into one. Just, express hour opinions! Receive honest debates. I can see you follow the news, so post a weekly or daily even analysis of world events through your viewpoint! Shoot for the stars, and why not?
I still feel guilty. Sorry, Frosty.

[Frost Mage]

Hey, it's all cool Eltee. I think making a thread dedicated to my "crazy" ideas would be a VERY bad idea. I think it would just turn into a cess pool of criticizing my credibility in politics. As far as "real" politics go, I'm actually very normal. It's the conspiracies where I start feeling the heat.

[Fiar]

I think he already said once that if SOPA was to come across his dek, he'd have overturned it. So like others said, he understandably wants to stop piracy (Which is impossible mind you), but he recognized SOPA's extremes.

[DorostheConqueror]

I have to give props to Obama for the way he's been handling all this; it's like Dubya with NASA, little glimmers of hope. Is Obama going to continue opposing SOPA? Who knows. Mentioning the controversy and letting people know he's planning on doing something is just SOP- it doesn't mean he's planning on selling us down the river, but then, it's too early to tell.

I'm hoping this will get dragged out intentionally, put on hold long enough to make it an election issue. That way, we can see which candidates are likely to ruin the net, and act accordingly. Of course, if Obama wins, he'll be a two term President and therefor much more likely to say screw it and do things he knows will be unpopular with voters, yet popular with Hollywood backers who can promise him a cushy post-Presidential lifestyle. But again, it's too early to tell, and so far we've got no reason to suspect Obama of being our enemy on this.

[Sloady]

This morning I believe the minister agreed to have a proper Daíl Debate over it on live radio.

[legoless]

How the hell am I only hearing about this now? Thank God we have Anonymous on our side; they're already hard at work, I see.

If the Irish government is going to screw it's citizens over, kiss it goodbye.

I consider myself fairly patriotic, but I'm 100% with you on forsaking independence if the boggers in up Leinster House start submitting to these kind of outrageous censorship laws.

[Sloady]

Going back to the UK would be silly. We'd be trading one inefficient government in for another. Better we turf the [&@%!] out and get new people (NEW people, not different people who've been in government forever) than become a colony again. Admittedly, in future, I would be opposed to a closer alliance between the UK and Ireland, but on an equal basis, not giving it back as if they ever owned it.

[Dark Lord Cam]

I have merged all of the various Internet Anti Piracy law threads into one single thread, for organization reasons. Kudos Chaos.

[I EAT pain]

My first epicly merged topic... *Sniff*


Anyway, I have a feeling SOPA will just keep coming back, only with the slightest changes...

[Chaos the N'wah]

I have merged all of the various Internet Anti Piracy law threads into one single thread, for organization reasons. Kudos Chaos.

Glad I could help nip this trend in the bud, we all knew that SOPA/PIPA/Whathaveyou would have discussion, better to cut the clutter down into one writhing mosh pit

@Bread-eater: the MPAA and any entertainment behemoths looking to cash in are going to push for the strictest regulations and bans because they hate the thought that even one penny could be have been theirs. This won't stop with any of the current acts on the table, this is a perpetual struggle in the making

[Wolfie]

So dose anyone have any other plans to get rid of pirates?

Really hate to say it but this is probely the only one that would work (if after a while whole internet was down)
So what are we sopouse to do?

Also I dont get it should it matter how much money these guys have? they are getting stoelen form them selfs as are many others.

I hate when pepole think just cause someone has a lot of cash its okay to do things to them...

[Chaos the N'wah]

I hate when pepole think just cause someone has a lot of cash its okay to do things to them...

Which would be a valid argument (and often is in how media portrays people), but you don't destroy another industry just so you can make sure everyone is paying for yours.
Being against SOPA doesn't mean you condone piracy, just that you don't want the government or anyone to stifle potential. I don't use land mines to kill rats when a rat trap would do the job without destroying my house.

Umm...why are the color and quote tags being censored?

[Spiney]

So dose anyone have any other plans to get rid of pirates?

Really hate to say it but this is probely the only one that would work (if after a while whole internet was down)
So what are we sopouse to do?

Also I dont get it should it matter how much money these guys have? they are getting stoelen form them selfs as are many others.

I hate when pepole think just cause someone has a lot of cash its okay to do things to them...

In the words of Gabe Newall, CEO of Valve: "You can't get rid of pirating, you never will. The trick is to provide a better service to win over potential customers."

Essentially, the industries need to update their services so people won't bother with pirating.

[DorostheConqueror]

So dose anyone have any other plans to get rid of pirates?

Really hate to say it but this is probely the only one that would work (if after a while whole internet was down)
So what are we sopouse to do?

Uh, nothing? Or exactly what is being done- despite the shrill whining coming from the old media, it's not like there aren't already laws in place that force us to bend over backwards in order to accommodate their whims (in fact, I'd argue that even the DMCA is going too far). I mean, do you REALLY believe that piracy is such a serious problem that we've got to throw out the rule of law and nuke the internet? Really?

As someone on another forum said, "You can stop piracy if you drain the ocean". I really hope I don't have to explain the absurdity of this thinking.

In the words of Gabe Newall, CEO of Valve: "You can't get rid of pirating, you never will. The trick is to provide a better service to win over potential customers."

Essentially, the industries need to update their services so people won't bother with pirating.

Exactly. Ironically, in Valve's case, their aggressive mandatory cloud-based distribution setup lost me long ago, and I've actually stopped buying products attached to certain blue chip franchises specifically because of the issues I have with Steam... but the general argument is correct. Piracy isn't going to go away any faster than prostitution or pot smoking. The only way to keep the money rolling in is to make customers want to buy your products; the marketplace is a voluntary playing field, and the carrot, not the stick, is the only way you'll get anywhere.

As God is my witness, if anything like SOPA ever gets implemented in my country, I will NEVER buy a single product or pay for a single service offered by any company or organization that supports SOPA. If I've got to close out my bank account and move to the mountains of Alaska, I'll do it.

[Spiney]

Exactly. Ironically, in Valve's case, their aggressive mandatory cloud-based distribution setup lost me long ago, and I've actually stopped buying products attached to certain blue chip franchises specifically because of the issues I have with Steam... but the general argument is correct. Piracy isn't going to go away any faster than prostitution or pot smoking. The only way to keep the money rolling in is to make customers want to buy your products; the marketplace is a voluntary playing field, and the carrot, not the stick, is the only way you'll get anywhere.

I find that Steam wins me over from piracy, seeing as a portion of it goes to support the developers, namely a lot of the independently developed games as well. Plus the speeds are about equal to torrenting.

And the old games are fun to nostalgia over too.

[DorostheConqueror]

Exactly. Ironically, in Valve's case, their aggressive mandatory cloud-based distribution setup lost me long ago, and I've actually stopped buying products attached to certain blue chip franchises specifically because of the issues I have with Steam... but the general argument is correct. Piracy isn't going to go away any faster than prostitution or pot smoking. The only way to keep the money rolling in is to make customers want to buy your products; the marketplace is a voluntary playing field, and the carrot, not the stick, is the only way you'll get anywhere.

I find that Steam wins me over from piracy, seeing as a portion of it goes to support the developers, namely a lot of the independently developed games as well. Plus the speeds are about equal to torrenting.

And the old games are fun to nostalgia over too.

I'd be OK with Steam IF it was optional. If it was optional, I'd just say no thanks, and we'd part ways happily. But it isn't, not for games available on Steam. When I go to a brick and mortar to buy a disc, I don't want to have to come home, load up Steam, and install it via the internet. I don't want to have to run Steam in the background, or maintain a constant internet connection, I shouldn't have to specifically set up my game to play it offline, and when I do, there's no excuse for forcing me to re-connect Steam every couple days or else be locked out of my game indefinitely. And this isn't just a matter of principle or performance or whatever- back when I was in the Army, I'd sometimes go for months on end with no civilian net privileges. Wanna relax for an hour and play Total War? Sorry, Steam won't let you do that. Enjoy the $80 you wasted.

Long rant short, they're trying to set themselves up as a sort of PC "console", a mandatory, proprietary third party service that I neither want nor need, and while I wouldn't exactly say that Steam is driving me into piracy, it has driven me to get cracks and installers for games I actually bought. When a legitimate consumer has to resort to piracy to get a game he's bought to work properly, there's something wrong with your DRM approach.

So, anyways, getting back to SOPA, I hate Steam and I hate their distribution model and I really wish they'd just [&@%!] off and die, but given a choice between Steam and SOPA, it's Steam all the way.

[Spiney]

Funny, I love steam for everything you hate. I don't need CD's any more sine I just buy the license and can install it via the internet anywhere.

I only play on my PC, which has a constant internet connection, and the Overlay also allows me to talk to my friends without alt-tabbing out of the game.

If the game isn't working, then there's an issue on your end. Any complications I had were sorted out quickly.

[Frost Mage]

Funny, I love steam for everything you hate. I don't need CD's any more sine I just buy the license and can install it via the internet anywhere.

I only play on my PC, which has a constant internet connection, and the Overlay also allows me to talk to my friends without alt-tabbing out of the game.

If the game isn't working, then there's an issue on your end. Any complications I had were sorted out quickly.

Tell that to Blackfire . He hates Steam. I happen to like it when it comes to multiplayer games, but I feel like single player games like TES should give you a choice to play off of Steam or the CD.

[Wolfie]

would be a valid argument (and often is in how media portrays people), but you don't destroy another industry just so you can make sure everyone is paying for yours.

I never said they where right but we to are wrong for saying "theyt get all the money anyway"

Being against SOPA doesn't mean you condone piracy, just that you don't want the government or anyone to stifle potential. I don't use land mines to kill rats when a rat trap would do the job without destroying my house.

My whole point is what can you do to stop it?
its getting worse and anything with it is lossing a lot of money, sure thet have loads still but over time it will add up.
I dont buy that "make pepole want to buy it they wont do it anymore" crap, if you dont want to buy it in the first place whast the odds of you going to get it in the first place? not very high

[Chaos the N'wah]

would be a valid argument (and often is in how media portrays people), but you don't destroy another industry just so you can make sure everyone is paying for yours.

I never said they where right but we to are wrong for saying "theyt get all the money anyway"

Which I didn't say, what I was pointing out was their motives for trying to push any anti-piracy act without regard to the ramifications of the loopholes that come with vague terminology in legislation.
If this was like occupy protesters, where they're just yelling at people for having more money, then I'll toot the horn, but this isn't the case, this is them attacking internet rights, not us flinging politic poop because we don't make multi-million dollar films.

My whole point is what can you do to stop it?
its getting worse and anything with it is lossing a lot of money, sure thet have loads still but over time it will add up.
I dont buy that "make pepole want to buy it they wont do it anymore" crap, if you dont want to buy it in the first place whast the odds of you going to get it in the first place? not very high

I agree, you'll never stop it completely or even to the extent that would make the entertainment industry happy (See my "this is a perpetual struggle in the making" line a page back), but you don't pull the plug without [&@%!] off your customers, you go by baby steps, you won't stop piracy, but who knows? maybe we can reduce it through convenience and accessibility. Notice how that has nothing to do with regulating the internet through legislation? Yeah...

[Wolfie]

Which I didn't say, what I was pointing out was their motives for trying to push any anti-piracy act without regard to the ramifications of the loopholes that come with vague terminology in legislation.

The reasson for the vague terminology is more and more pepole use loopholes to get out of laws in the first place, basicly if you make it to small they will find aways around it evrey time if you make it to broar evrye one complains

I dont think there is a middle ground aqt all.

If this was like occupy protesters, where they're just yelling at people for having more money, then I'll toot the horn, but this isn't the case, this is them attacking internet rights, not us flinging politic poop because we don't make multi-million dollar films.

Except we all admit this will stop piracy to some exstent (better then anything eles can)
and what internet rights are they breaking?
If I have ilegal stuff in my house they dont break any laws by closing me down (so to speak)

]I agree, you'll never stop it completely or even to the extent that would make the entertainment industry happy (See my "this is a perpetual struggle in the making" line a page back), but you don't pull the plug without [&@%!] off your customers, you go by baby steps, you won't stop piracy, but who knows? maybe we can reduce it through convenience and accessibility.

The problem with this is pirated stuff will always be more convenience and accessibility, free and quick? over costlly and rebuing etc?

How can we ever make buying it match that?

[Frost Mage]

Just slow down a second guys, SOPA is being passed in Ireland as we speak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3FpBzs ... AAAAAAATAA

This is getting serious. We NEED to stand up and do something!