Return of the Dwemer?

[Crepe the Ashlander]

So, from Tribunal and Morrowind we know the Dwemer are completely gone, transformed into ash, and completely erased from Nirn. But are they? From Skyrim we learnt that the dragons could return because the Elder Scrolls allowed them to be returned, with them actually being sent to the future, not killed. Who knows the ash in Tribunal was just a placeholder for the Dwemer when they were gone? In another topic I had read (can't remember what the topic was called), someone suggested that Kagrenac had messed with the Elder Scrolls to further technically advance the Dwemer during the war, and in doing this caused his entire race to dissapear, so maybe if Kagrenac was the one who messed around with them, it affected his race's DNA in specific or something like that, while he was trying to advance his race.

Now this brought me to another point, if they did return, maybe they could end the Empire/Thalmor war, in multiple ways:
1) The Dwemer if they did return, and knowing their understanding of the world, they would have a general understanding of what was going on. The Thalmor would dissaprove of the sudden showing up of the Dwemer, their distant disliked cousins, and would try to dominate them, the Thalmor then being caught in a two front war (who knows Dwemer and the Imperials may be in alliance, after all, neither side has had contact before, although the Dwemer don't like Nedes that much as they hated the Nords when they had dissapeared), the Thalmor may then be utterly destroyed by the technology of the Dwemer, but...

2) If the Dwemer returned, the Thalmor and Imperials may think this sudden revival of the Dwemer across northern Tamriel, would be a massive threat worthy of post-poning their war to defeat the new threat of the Dwemer. The Dwemer may return like a war-like people attacking the surface races and taking back the places they used to live, such as Hammerfell, Skyrim and Morrowind (although the ones that return in Vvardenfell will find themselves drowning or burning or dead).

3) The Dwemer may return in secret to the undeground ruins where they were born and slowly build up their civilization and slowly take back their cities from the Falmer and so on. Eventually coming out of their underground cities to approach the living races, possibly making a diplomatic approach. The Dwarven leaders may know fine well that their sudden appearance may cause other races to be hostile. But, if the Dwemer return with their leaders...

4) Kagrenac and his lieutenants will still hold massive disdain over the Nords and Dunmer. Thus bringing further war to the lands of the already ravaged Morrowind and Skyrim.

So, the reason this is in TES General, and not Lore: Do you think a TES game may be in an expansion or a main series game. To be honest I would rather have this as a main game, the return of the Dwemer is far too large as just an expansion pack isn't it? But, I think this may (horrible though it be) be an expansion, as i've heard from yet another topic I can not remember, someone said that each game has a theme which subsequent expansions followed. Morrowind (Tribunal and Bloodmoon) follows the theme of returning powers and breaking cycles, Oblivion (KotN and Shivering Isles) follows the theme of gods and their return to power/insanity in Sheogoraths place, and Skyrim has a theme of returning powers, possibly evils?

So if Skyrim follows this, does that mean the Dwemer would return in an expansion pack for Skyrim?

[i-m-so-ghett0]

I have a feeling the return of the Dwemer has something to do with Nerevarine and Vivec. Vivec achieved his new god-status of CHIM, and Nerevar is immortal and powerful. I'm sure their stories are not over, and I bet Vivec will be able to solve the Dwemer mystery and cause something big. And when Nerevar is done with whatever he's doing in Akavir, I think he'll play a role in the Dwemer mystery also. Just brainstorming.
But I doubt that the Dwemer will return in a DLC, and I hope not because if they do it will be big enough for a new game. Dwemer returning will be big.

[Crepe the Ashlander]

Yeah, I would be disappointed if it was DLC, I was just saying it looked awkwardely like it might happen, I bloody hope not though.

[i-m-so-ghett0]

An expansion would be horribly compressed and anitclimatic for the return of the lost Dwemer, I agree. But what if they didn't return at all? It's kinda cool that they vanished without a trace to who knows where, never to return. Or if they did, not to their previous physical selves. They should be a master race of supremely intelligent beings. Maybe make an army of Numidiums to keep things interesting, maybe.

[Anonymous98223]

Yeah, what if thier spirits returned and they all sorta possessed new bodies like magic golems similar to the Numidim(but smaller) that they had built ages ago. Anyways if they do return anytime soon, I think the return of the Dwemer would happen in a Hammerfal game. The province also has alot of rich and interesting lore reguarding them.

[i-m-so-ghett0]

I agree, TES6 will either be Summerset Isle or Hamerfell. But the Dwemer's army of Numidiums would be cool, and the machinery in the old ruins turning back on to power the Dwemer's return. Something like that..

[Crepe the Ashlander]

I reckon if they couldn't do the Dwemer return in a DLC (the numidium idea would be cool for a TES6), they could do an in-depth lore bump for the Dwemer in a DLC where you explore a large new Dwemer ruins that have just been discovered as part of an excavation team, you explore the ruins with guards and caravans and so forth, and along the path you learn more about the Dwemer.

[Morrowindian]

Tbh I would love to see the Dwemer return but not in a DLC.... I was hoping for more of a Morrowind remake where this was the storyline and it was somewhat further into the future from the original Morrowind game

[Incarnal]

You know, provided that it was a Shivering Isles length DLC I think it would be a good fit. Although, there are some better things that could be used for it. The simple fact is, the Dwemer are hanging out there to be brought back some time, but I'm thinking it's more of a Chekhov's Gun.

[Zero-Sum]

The Dwemer transformed into the golden skin of the Numidium, sacrificing themselves to merge with their God (the aforementioned big stompy robot) so that they could go back to the very beginning of time, when Anu and Padomay first made contact. Returning doesn't seem likely.

[Anonymous98223]

And how do you know that??

[Zero-Sum]

And how do you know that??

Final Report to Trebonius, from the Imperial Library. And here's essentially a summary of the most important part:

"Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater. Kagrenac had even built the tools needed to construct a Mantella, the Crux of Transcendence."

In a manner of speaking, the Dwemer attempted to become a god-oversoul (Talos is one such, and the oversoul of the Amulet of Kings at the end of Oblivion is another) and were trapped in another realm.

It's not exactly a "realm" though, because it is the point from which all creation sprang. Similar to going back in time to before there was time, before consciousness and before souls were formed. They wanted to be a singularity. To stop time from ever happening for them (many Dwemer works dealt with the erasure of entropy from their creations), so that they could stay in that one moment of totality forever, and be outside the prison that is Mundus.

They freed themselves from the cycle of reincarnation forever. In one way, they achieved this. In another, they mass-suicided, and are not alive any more as we would understand it. Life is a process (change over time), and they no longer exist within time. There is no "Dwemer" now (Yagrum being an exception). They don't want to be returned, but at the same time, they don't want for anything, because there are no Dwemer. Even if they were removed from Numidium somehow, they would not be people. They would be the primordial soup that becomes a soul when somebody is born. You'd have to go through the original process that split them from the Ehlnofey (who also don't exist now).

Long story short, they "exist" as a part of Numidium's golden skin. They're a part of the Big Stompy Robot, Brass Tower, Walks-Like-Brass.

[Anonymous98223]

Interesting. Do you know how credible that source was.

[Zero-Sum]

Interesting. Do you know how credible that source was.

It was all derived from developer comments. There is some conflict over whether the Dwemer "wanted" to become a singular god, some others interpret it as, they wanted to become gods, but they didn't realize that by doing so they had to lose their individuality. It's all a confusing matter, honestly. MK probably wrote all this (and he always does).

[Matdir]

My companion (mage 4 hire from riften) mentioned while exploring a dwemer ruin that a live dwemer was found in morrowind. Just one though, as he said "imagine what it would be like to be the last of your race"

[i-m-so-ghett0]

http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn
There's the last living Dwemer
I just finished Morrowind's main quest again, and Dagoth Ur said while he didn't know what happened to the Dwemer, if he had Kagrenac's Tools to study he might be able to figure it out. I wonder, if Yagrum Bagarn had them if he could solve the mystery. He is the last living Dwemer so I imagine if anyone could solve it he would be the one. And who knows what even happened to him, if he survived the Red Mountain eruption and whatnot.

[AddictedtoMorrowind]

Yagrum was a Master Crafter under the service of Kagrenac, so it's possible that he knows about things.

[Sakhiya]

An expansion would be horribly compressed and anitclimatic for the return of the lost Dwemer, I agree. But what if they didn't return at all? It's kinda cool that they vanished without a trace to who knows where, never to return. Or if they did, not to their previous physical selves. They should be a master race of supremely intelligent beings. Maybe make an army of Numidiums to keep things interesting, maybe.

I agree with this.

It's more interesting as a mystery, it would have to be done incredibly well if the developers did decide to tackle it.

[i-m-so-ghett0]

If the Dwemer returned, they would come back as Numidum, because I read somewhere they turned into the skin of Numidium and left Nirn. So if they did return [&@%!] would go down.

[agresiveaj]

I think it would be cool for the black marsh that the for the main questline the character had to explore some dwemer ruins and entered a room, walked to a pedestal and then dwemer ghost's appeared and talked and slowly took form and there bodies transported to other dwemer ruins. (black marsh because not much is explored

[Musicman247]

Necropost. Locked.