A kick in the Thalmor's faces. Shivering Isles SPOILERS.

[Red Guardian]

The Thalmor deny Tiber Septim and his ascension to the Aedra's plane. Because he was a man, and a man can't become a God.

But what about the Champion of Cyrodill? In the canon story it is said that a normal Imperial became the new Sheogorath. A man became a Daedra, a God!

The Thalmor forgot to check everything before leaving? Tamriel doesn't even know about this story? What are your opinions?

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Well there is no canon to say that the new Sheogorath was an Imperial. He/she could have been an elf.

What I find even MORE important is the fact that Arkay also started off as an ordinary man (a Breton if I am not mistaken) before ascending to goodhood. Apotheosis appears to be a fairly common thing in Tamriel. Tiber Septim, Arkay, Mannimarco and the CoC/newSheogorath are all examples of mortals who have ascended to godhood. You can throw the Tribunal in there too technically.

Apotheosis has many examples in the lore, and we know that AT LEAST two of those who did it are classed as men races.

[Chaos the N'wah]

No one knows what happened to the Champion; we know, but we know a lot of stuff the average Tamriellian doesn't

[Wolfie]

Uh #1 there is nothing anywhere that says he did become a God, its just referenced never confirmed
#2 Dedrea are not God's in that sense, or at least not counted as such, the only way they are counted is in the fact people do worship him
#3 even so this mad god looks, acts, talks, and for all reasons is the old one so yeah they don’t know.

What I find even MORE important is the fact that Arkay also started off as an ordinary man (a Breton if I am not mistaken) before ascending to goodhood. Apotheosis

Yes and no, it is one of the stories but there is another that makes him a spirit that was made at creation

[Red Guardian]

The Nerevarine was a Dunmer. I read that the CoC was an Imperial. The Dragonborn is more than likely a Nord...

But anyway, Mannimarco from the Oblivion Crisis? He was just a Lich.
There's a book about him saying that he became a God but there's some theories that it isn't the Mannimarco that we know...

Btw, I didn't even knew about Arkay. Interesting.

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Mannimarco is more than just a mere Lich. In Oblivion he took human (or rather elf) form but from previous lore we have every reason to believe that he ascended to godhood and his appearance in Cyrodiil was simply a physical manifestation of his power. He probably felt the need to physically manifest himself when his followers came under threat from Traven's opposition.

Where did you read that the various champions through the TES series had a canon race? As far as I was aware their race was not defined.

[Wolfie]

The Nerevarine was a Dunmer. he never used the hreat never became a God.
I read that the CoC was an Imperial. The Dragonborn is more than likely a Nord...

thats how it works so far but they may pull a fast one, ARENA did not have a race.
Basically, being a "god" and being a "God" are deferent
Put it this way, Talos, was a man, the tribunal where not really Gods they just stole the power of a God, Arkay CAN be said to be a spirit and never a man, and the CoC is a Dredrea prince which is not counted as Gods and even if he was they most likely don’t know.

That’s how the thalmor most likely see it, in other words NO one man has rising AFATK or even want to admit.

Now I don’t think all thalmor belief this and the top up just used it for political things but still.

[Kerr]

I don't think there is any canon hero as far as race and sex is concerned for any TES games. I was surprised Arkay worship wasn't outlawed too. A bit off topic but was The Prophet from Knights of the Nine Talos? I know Wulf from Morrowind was and I thought The Prophet might be too.

[Zero-Sum]

The Thalmor want everybody to believe that Talos is not a god because they want to use the TES-Tulpa trick to make it so that he really IS no longer a god, and therefore he will be removed from Mundus as he couldn't have been a mantle of Lorkhan. And then the Thalmor can undo creation, remove mankind from every Possibility possible from the interplay of Anu and Padomay, and then make themselves gods.

Arkay having been a mortal is not confirmed. The Monomyth states that he was one of the first spirits to 'crystallize', and even if it was true, the Thalmor have no interest in him. He doesn't bind their spirits to the plane like Mundus-Lorkhan-Talos-Tiber-Wulfharth-Arctus does.

The CoC mantled Sheogorath. He essentially became Sheogorath, and there's almost nothing left of the CoC besides some of his memories (his references to the Thieves' Guild and DB questlines, and of course the Main Quest). So the Sheo you meet in Skyrim is almost the exact same one you met in SI.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

I think you're right, but the revolution in the Isles isn't exactly common knowledge to outsiders.

[Iamgoofball]

Well there is no canon to say that the new Sheogorath was an Imperial. He/she could have been an elf.

Actually, a certain console command in Skyrim makes the game return with Sheogorath's race being Breton.

[Swampy]

^Thats because he looks better that way.

[Tarquin Dynatus]

Well there is no canon to say that the new Sheogorath was an Imperial. He/she could have been an elf.

Actually, a certain console command in Skyrim makes the game return with Sheogorath's race being Breton.

That is interesting, though not necessarily indicative of something the writers considered to be canon. Honestly, I would have thought the most deserving new-Sheogorath to be a Bosmer seeing as SI are home to so very many of them including the last Duke and Duchess of the two halves of the realm.

[GILLIANTHEBRAVE]

I like to think of Sheogarath as a Kitty. But, if I'm not mistaken he comes back in Skyrim as a Dark Elf. Well he looks like one. Hard to tell the difference when you are a Kitty. I just read somewhere the Ayleid's mostly worshiped the Daedra and not the Divines and because of their origination from the Ayleid's I don’t think it really matters to the Thalmor. They just want to be supreme and if they get rid on one Divine you can bet your Sheppard’s pie, they will be tossing them out one by one. But I still have my little shrine of Talos....ssshhh!

[Jeff]

1) Oblivion had a Sheogorath Daedric Quest
2) Then they made the Shivering Isles DLC
3) SI added Juggylg (sp?) as a Daedric Prince
4) Juggylg was Sheograth
5) Skyrim has a Sheogorath Daedric Quest
6) There is no Jugglyg Daedric Quest

Verdic: Beth has no idea what they are doing, they just make it up as they go.

[Zero-Sum]

1) Oblivion had a Sheogorath Daedric Quest
2) Then they made the Shivering Isles DLC
3) SI added Juggylg (sp?) as a Daedric Prince
4) Juggylg was Sheograth
5) Skyrim has a Sheogorath Daedric Quest
6) There is no Jugglyg Daedric Quest

Verdic: Beth has no idea what they are doing, they just make it up as they go.

Not true. During SI, Sheogorath and Jyggalag weren't the same, it's just that when either manifests, the other can't. Skyrim has a Sheo quest because the CoC served as a sort of "host" for Sheo's personality and power - basically, the CoC mantled Sheo. Jygglag didn't plan on interacting with mortals so soon, rather he had to go back and build his power, and it's expected that he will return. You also can't say the Wheel is unbalanced, because it's possible Sheo took his part in the Wheel and Jygglag pulled a Talos - still a god, but not part of the Wheel (Talos essentially became neo-Lorkhan and became Mundus).

[Swampy]

Just a quick question what is the CoC?

[Jeff]

Champion of Cyrodill

[Feanor]

I don't think there is any canon hero as far as race and sex is concerned for any TES games. I was surprised Arkay worship wasn't outlawed too. A bit off topic but was The Prophet from Knights of the Nine Talos? I know Wulf from Morrowind was and I thought The Prophet might be too.

We have a live-trailer for Skyrim, where the Dragonborn has white skin, blue eyes, light brownish-blond hair. He is also looks as tall as the others in the trailer, so he is probably a Nord and less likely a Breton or Imperial. It's canon.

Also for Oblivion, we have the E3 trailers, where the CoC is obviously a white man.

[OblivionDuruza]

No one knows what happened to the Champion; we know, but we know a lot of stuff the average Tamriellian doesn't

This exactly, and also on the matter of Arkay, there is no certainty in my mind he was a mortal and not simply the 'son' of Akatosh a la Alduin. There are varying accounts and none is more valid than the others, per se.

[Kerr]

I don't think there is any canon hero as far as race and sex is concerned for any TES games. I was surprised Arkay worship wasn't outlawed too. A bit off topic but was The Prophet from Knights of the Nine Talos? I know Wulf from Morrowind was and I thought The Prophet might be too.

We have a live-trailer for Skyrim, where the Dragonborn has white skin, blue eyes, light brownish-blond hair. He is also looks as tall as the others in the trailer, so he is probably a Nord and less likely a Breton or Imperial. It's canon.

Also for Oblivion, we have the E3 trailers, where the CoC is obviously a white man.

That proves nothing other than they used that race for advertisement.

[Feanor]

I don't think there is any canon hero as far as race and sex is concerned for any TES games. I was surprised Arkay worship wasn't outlawed too. A bit off topic but was The Prophet from Knights of the Nine Talos? I know Wulf from Morrowind was and I thought The Prophet might be too.

We have a live-trailer for Skyrim, where the Dragonborn has white skin, blue eyes, light brownish-blond hair. He is also looks as tall as the others in the trailer, so he is probably a Nord and less likely a Breton or Imperial. It's canon.

Also for Oblivion, we have the E3 trailers, where the CoC is obviously a white man.

That proves nothing other than they used that race for advertisement.

Bethesda's chosen race for the Dragonborn looks to be a Nord, which makes it canon in my opinion. It's not just advertisement. I think it's similiar to the way how the Bioware handles this in Dragon Age: Origins.