The Medean Royal family

[DorostheConqueror]

Question: how the hell is Titus Mede II the son of Titus Mede I? I see this time and time again, in discussions and even on the various Wikis, but are there any actual Lore sources to back this claim up?

I mean, think about it: Titus Mede I supposedly became Emperor around 4e17 or whenever. Presumably, he was already well into adulthood by that point; his Lore confirmed son, Attrebus, was born a year later. So how old was he then? Thirty? Forty? And when would Titus II have been born? Titus II looks old, sure, but HOW old? Titus II came to power in 4e168, and was still alive in 4e201. You mean to tell me that, over the past two hundred years, there's only been TWO generations of Medean royalty? What, did Titus I have Titus II when he was over a hundred years old? Then live another sixty or so years, to croak when his son was already going grey?

[GhostOfNumenor]

He might be a third successor. There's nothing really saying Mede II was Mede I's child, is there?

[DorostheConqueror]

I'd guess he was AT LEAST the third successor, probably the fourth or even fifth.

[Grove-of-Hares]

I'd always hoped I would have found a definitive in-game source on the Mede family tree, but noooo. I guess they'll clear it up eventually.

With so many factors playing a role, its hard to tell. He might be Mede I's son, and perhaps he looks older than he is. The war with the Thalmor could have made any man in charge looked ragged and tired. I always thought he was at least two generations after Mede I though, although that also brings up issues.

[Lady Nerevar]

There's no way he could be Titus I's child, unless some insane necromantic magic happened. I think it's just people not paying attention to the timelines.

[Wolfie]

Or its just him being named after his grandfather\greatgrand father?
or it could just be a poltical play and no relations

[Pilaf The Defiler]

He's not Titus Mede I's son any more than Pope Benedict XVI is Pope Benedict XV's son.

It just doesn't work that way. There's nothing in the lore to suggest it. Nothing at all. No dialogue, no game book, and no mention of a son named Titus II in the novels. Titus's son was named Attrebus. I assume Titus II is either Attrebus' grandson or even great grandson.

This is a perfect thread to drive home an important point. This is one of the main points I always try to make - the wikis are not infallible. They are not TES bibles or sources of absolute canon. If you see an unsourced claim, watch out. It's usually someone's opinion. It would be logical to assume that Titus II would be the son of Titus I if these Imperial naming systems worked like they do in America or England, but they don't. They have more in common with the aforementioned papal naming system, or the Roman Emperor system. Titus Mede II simply means he's the second Emperor named Titus Mede. He's probably a blood descendent but beyond that there's no proof or logic to saying he's a son.

Interesting tidbit: If Attrebus did end up marrying Annaig after the events of Lord of Souls, which it's implied he may, then Titus II would be more than a little bit Breton.

[JoeyDestructo]

probably changed his name when he became emperor

[Velothi]

I think people always correlate 'Second' as "Oh that means he be the DIRECT DESCENDENT of said guy!".

And this is why those people are morons in every-sense of the word. As we see not only from English, France and Even (God Forbid) Austrian Monarchies; the 'Numbered' was usually never a direct descendent. Just had the same first name.

To be in game wise (so people won't have to 'read' History!) look at Europa Universalis III in terms of naming. In my Byzantine campaign I had two Manuels. Manuel II Palaiologos and Manuel III Laskaris.

As you can see - the number usually means its just the same title. For example Ioannes VII was the father of Ioannes the VIII.

So it can go either way - as long as they possess the name again. And that might not even be the birth-name; it could be the name they adopted. There is no evidence to show Titus Mede II is the Emperor's real name - perhaps he adopted the name 'Titus' to show the new age of the Empire under a 'Titus' rather than what his father gave him.

Or maybe some family squabble happened. We don't know.

But since Barely anyone who has played Oblivion knows about the Lord of Souls and Infernal City (Oblivion Fans were like 'meh' and Morrowind fans most likely went 'wtf?!').

So god knows how many people actually read the books to know Titus Mede II isn't the Son of Titus Mede.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

There is no evidence to show Titus Mede II is the Emperor's real name

Why should we assume it isn't unless otherwise indicated? Occam's Razor. His name is Titus Mede II, and why not?

Pelagius Septim II was not the son of Pelagius Septim I, and so forth. He was more like a great grand nephew a few times removed. His name was Pelagius, though. He was named after the older dude. Same with the various Uriels and so forth.

Important thing is he (was) Emperor, and apparently (most of) the Elder Council was perfectly happy with him. In other words he didn't seem to be massively unpopular in Cyrodill despite the White Gold Concordant. I don't think anyone was questioning whether he was the [&@%!] child of Attrebus Mede II or whoever his dad was.

[Velothi]

Why should we assume it isn't unless otherwise indicated? Occam's Razor. His name is Titus Mede II, and why not?

With names - we can only be so cautious. We do know he is native to Cyrodiil or Cyrodiilic parents. So maybe he's the [&@%!] Child of Titus Mede's son - and decided to adopt his Grand Father's name for some 'esteem' he had. Or maybe he just liked the name.

While it is small information - we can't really prove his origin name is Titus Mede.

People change their names - be it for political exile, glory, wanting to be nostalgic or whatever.

We just know his Title as of Now is likely "His Imperial Majesty, Titus Mede II; Augustus of the Tamrielic Empire and Defender of the Holy Eight Divines."

[JVElEven]

I think I made a small calculation somewhere in a similar thread, where I ended up concluding that Titus Mark 2 was likely the sixth Mede Emperor, and thus number five after Titus One.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I think I made a small calculation somewhere in a similar thread, where I ended up concluding that Titus Mark 2 was likely the sixth Mede Emperor, and thus number five after Titus One.

That would make sense if they had relatively short lifespans...I guess we could compare them to the Septims, but many of those reigns were cut short by war, disease or assassination.

There's really no way of knowing. We have intelligent guesses. Until Bethesda fills in those blanks we only know of three named Medes - Titus I, Attrebus and Titus II. We also know there's a huge time period between when we assume Attrebus could have logically died and when Titus II was born.

[JVElEven]

Correct. No way of knowing. But I worked with an average lifespan of 60 years, matching adequately with thirty years of ruling for each Monarch. I based that of Uriel VII's father, Pelagius IV, who actually died without being assassinated or anything.

[Vitellius]

Yeah, purely out of curiosity I'd like to hear what happened since the Umbriel crisis in terms of the Empire; the in-game book The Great War describes the rise of the Thalmor but nothing about what the Empire was doing in the 120-odd years between then and the start of the Great War.

[JVElEven]

They were probably trying to work their diplomacy/intrigue engine, trying to ally their way back to the top.

They like that tactic when they know they can't fight the opponent.

[Da_BossMaN69]

Is this even a legitimate question, doros, sometimes I just don't know about you man, look. Here's a fictional monarch list.

King Bob (ruled for 60 years, great king)--->King Joe (ruled for 10 years) ---> King Mike (ruled for 25 years)--->King Joe II (ruled for 30 years)--->King Bob II(rules for 50 years)

Not that hard, afterall are you going to name your son after yourself, are you even named after your father?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Right. That's what I'm trying to say.

There's multiple instances of it in real history. If you take a random monarchy title..for instance, King of the Western Franks. That one's now defunct but I had some ancestors from that branch so it's a good starting point for me. You had a guy named Clodius. There wasn't a Clodius II for like 60 years after his death, or a Clodius III for another 70 or so after that. There were lots of other names thrown in there in between. No doubt Clodius II was named after Clodius I but that by no means indicates he's the son. Not in those terms. The Imperial naming system works similarly to this Roman Potentate system.

[Grove-of-Hares]

I didn't think this would be such a thought provoking idea for some.

Most of the time a [fictional] King Fiztwald II is not named directly after the original King Fiztwald, but they share the same royal lineage, or at least the same government. However, sometimes a son, say King Fiztwald III, is named after Fiztwald II. It can run either way, at the same time.

With the Mede family, its most likely the former since there is a pretty sizable gap between Attrebus [I?] and Titus II. The question isn't whether or not Titus Mede could name his son Titus II, its a question of whether this could logically happen in terms of their age.

[JVElEven]

Exactly. Which is why I claculated with 4 rulers in between Attrebus (I(Most likely)) and Titus II. If one lives to an average 60 in Tamriel (A reasonable estimate), and taking in Titus I as being somewhere in his 30's when he ascended to the throne, that makes it fit with those four rulers.

[Grove-of-Hares]

That sounds good to me.