What are the real world influences on the races of Tamriel?

[Anonymous98223]

Yes, of course Bethsesda has put thier own spin on them, and while the elves due have asian influences I think the main influences are from beths imagination. Like the Aldmers crystal towers and coral cities, or the Dunmer having cities made out of giant crab shells. The Bosmer are definitly the less unique of them all, and the Dunmer have the most real world influences in them, Asian being among them. But thier are other main ones also.

And am I the only one who imagines Morrowind looking like alot of the planets in star wars The Clone Wars series on Cartoon Network(The new one not the old cartoon one), not the more earth like ones but the more outlandish ones and some of the desert ones.

Here Ill post a link to some of the episodes if you dont see what I mean.

[GhostOfNumenor]

Nords--Norse, Germanics, Visogoths, etc.
Redguards--North African, Middle-Eastern
Bretons--Celtic
Imperials--Roman
Mer--Mostly Asian
Orsimer--Mongolian
Khajiit--Spaniard
Argonians--Indian

[Pilaf The Defiler]

The Bosmer? Less unique?

Their capital city is a huge walking tree which is also possibly their god, Y'ffre in physical form.

They can transform entire armies into marauding were beasts.

They are religiously obligated to consume the body of a fallen foe within three days, and Y'ffre has forbidden them from eating or using plant matter from Valenwood for weapons, houses or armor. So basically native Bosmer weapons are largely composed of bone, stone and metal.

These are the ones that come to mind right away - not very much like the stereotypical Wood Elf of Tolkien and DnD lore when you examine it closely. The only resemblances are superficial - fleet of foot and good with animals. These may be traits passed down from Ayleid inbreeding.

[Anonymous98223]

Yes, out of all of the elves the bosmer are the most cliched. Walking trees... I've heard of other fantasy worlds with em. Cannibals? Many people might imagine barabarian folk as canibals.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yes, out of all of the elves the bosmer are the most cliched. Walking trees... I've heard of other fantasy worlds with em. Cannibals? Many people might imagine barabarian folk as canibals.

Yeah, there's walking trees and cannibals in other fiction, but not quite in the Bosmeri fashion.

For one, we're not talking about some oak tree sized Ent but a gigantic organism that holds a capital city on its bough, and is sentient and possibly a Divine, and a confirmed Tower - one of the mythic structures that holds Mundus together. That's a pretty unique combination of traits.

The religious cannibalism and the spiritual significance of the Green Pact also flavor the Bosmer's cannibalism as something a bit less barbaric and profane than the stereotypical fantasy cannibal.

[Anonymous98223]

Im not saying there is no uniquity present just that out of all of the elven races there the most cliched.

[OblivionDuruza]

The cannibalism to the Bosmeri is a highly sacred affair, they don't eat just anyone, they eat those they have defeated in combat. I would guess it stems to an extent form the Green Pact, which prohibits any harming of plants by the Bosmer. Talk about tree-huggers . I wouldn't say it's right to associate the cannibalism the Bosmer display with barbarianism or lack of sophistication and civilisation on their part.

[Feanor]

Like the Aldmers crystal towers

I think the towers might be of LOTR influence, Saruman's and Sauron's towers, anyone?

[Grove-of-Hares]

Altmer are more typical, they're tall, mystical, beautiful and powerful, but they aren't as 'prefect' as LOTR Elves.

Which I'm so happy about. Let's avoid the elves who are immortal and perfect but will eventually set sail to an undying land where the gods could be reached until they distanced themselves from mortals because the world is no longer flat what.

[OblivionDuruza]

Amen to that. The Altmer are just as vulnerable as anyone else, just as easy to kill with a blade, no super-human strength, agility, intellect AND ability to wield Magic making them OP here. Only problem is their just as flawed as the Men races when it comes to their society. The Altmeri fascination with perfection is intriguing, they will go to extreme lengths to ensure that they themselves are 'perfect', which itself is their greatest imperfection. Rather deep of Bethesda hey

[Grove-of-Hares]

Very much so. I like how all the races have their own equal footing, and their own flaws. Bethesda doesn't try to instill that sense of wonder that Tolkien did with his elves.

[BretonMage]

The elves are not Asian. Elves were a part of Germanic/Celtic Mythology. It doesn't matter in what context they are cast as elves or even the traits attributed to them; the mere fact ey are "elves" indicates that they are of European, or at the very least Indo-European, inspiration. If you want Asian, look to the Akavir.

[Anonymous98223]

I agree. I was reading about the Norse Elves the other day and there quite interesting. It also interesting how similar Tolkiens work is to norse mythology.

[OblivionDuruza]

The idea of Elves might originate in Norse, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, et al. mythology, that is true, but then again these Elves were little people, who later became little people who stole babies. The mere fact they are Elves does not mean that they do not draw inspiration from other areas. The Mer of Tamriel bear little resemblance to the álfar, per se.

[Anonymous98223]

No, they weren't little people, dwarvers where, elves where human like and sized divine beings gifted with magic powers who inhabited one of the Norse realms of existance,. There where two types of them. Light and Dark Elves, each with thier own divine god/being thingy that they followed. They where similar to the Aesir, one of the Norse groups of gods and the Dvergar or Dwarves. Tolkiens works really isnt that unique, its extremely similar to Germanic mythologies. His entire motive for was to create a mythology for England because there mythologies where all borrowed from other regions but he pretty much did the same. Still ove his work though and he did revive and greatly influence a lost genre.

Edit: It also interesting that the Pagen Star symbol which has become known as a representation of Satin or withcraft by the common people was a symbol the ancient germans used to ward of malevolent elves.

[OblivionDuruza]

Note that I said, became, I meant these little devils of English folklore, even so, álfar were said to range from much smaller than human size to taller, though not as tall or large as Jotunfolk. My point nonetheless, is that Mer are significantly different to the álfar to be worthy of differentiation. For example, the Dunmer practice of Ancestor worship bears resemblance to that in Asian cultures, which extends passed death, unlike the predominant practice in Western cultures.

Another example is the depiction of Altmer in Morrowind: thus. Everything from the apparel to the Katana has a noticeable influence. Bethesda meshed together a number of different influences and cultures, and the notion of Mer in TES Lore is definitely not restricted to the image of the álfar, in fact it is debatable that Bethesda did not draw anything from traditional mythology, considering the fact that Elves exist in present popular culture as a variant of Tolkien's Elves.

Now Kingdoms of Amalur has Elves that take noticeable inspiration from the álfar for sure.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

We do know that in-universe the Katana originated in Akavir, however. Not Summerset Isles. Most silk garments are associated with Ancestor Moths of the Niben Valley in Cyrodill, as well. I'm not sure if any Akaviri wear silk garments but that's another element of Asia. One of MK's unpublished Second PGE stories is about the various island chains between Akavir and Tamriel. One of them is populated by moth men according to his vision of Tamriel. Perhaps in the past the Akaviri enslaved or contracted these Mothmen for their silk. That's entirely conjecture based on one ex-dev's version of lore. As fascinating as MK's Tamriel is, the Tamriel that's fully "canon" is a bit MK, a bit Kuhlmann, and lots of bits of other people's Tamriels mixed together.

So the short answer is, outside of the silk garments produced in the Niben valley, I don't know of any other canon lore source that mentions the types of silks usually associated with Asia. I think it's a safe bet to assume any silk robes and such are from Cyrodill unless otherwise noted.

[Narzul]

The Mer in TES have never reminded me of the European folklore and mythology versions... especially not when I walk the Ashlands and speak with the Dunmer. The only elf in Tamriel that ever has is the Snow Prince.

[Ysmir]

To a degree that's true, but the TES Mer are very different from the standard LOTR-esque Elves.

Bosmer for starters, are short. They're also known for only eating meat, while most LOTR inspired Elves tend to be the opposite, leaning to less meat and more plant.

Altmer are more typical, they're tall, mystical, beautiful and powerful, but they aren't as 'prefect' as LOTR Elves.

Dunmer are a whole class unto themselves. They do embody the traditional LOTR-esque Elf in terms of their prowess with the Blade, Bow and Magic, but their culture, House system and Ashlander culture are all unique intriguing.

I think Bethesda has done a good job splitting the traditional LOTR elf and adding their own falir to their Mer, as they have with most all of their races, by drawing on a number of influences.

In Morrowind as a game in particular, there are a lot of Asain influences. Japanese style Orcish armour, Altmer wielding Katanas , etc. Less so in other games, but there was at one time a noticeable Asian theme in the game world, particularly in terms of Mer.

I know the Ashlanders and to some extent the House system reminds me of Native American. I live in Arizona so I have been in constant presence of natives and the stories. The ashlander culture reminds me of those natives....especially the class system i.e. Wise women Chiefs etc but in some native cultures there was a house system (although it's not particularly like TES) some outsiders even got could become honorary members of the tribe....or at least were allowed to learn their customs. Native Americans also have a similar relationship with the dead as the Dunmer had.

"Our tribe was very spiritual and believed that the spirit of the dead returned to a "spiritual realm" in this realm our loved ones are close to us and are therefore considered to be our "guardian angels" Historically, and present day ceremonies last for four days, where there are many rituals that healp the soul find a peaceful and safe journey, with all they need to survive, peace of mind, healed body and food for the soul."

[OblivionDuruza]

Pilaf I'm aware that that we now know that Katanas are from Akavir, my point is that that was how Bethesda tried to portray the Altmer at the time of Morrowind, before we started getting lots of info on Akavir and there is no denying that the Morrowind image of Altmer has decided influences, so while the Altmer may not be primarily influenced by Asia, each TES Race and culture is a conglomeration of influences and these have changed throughout different games.

[Anonymous98223]

While all races definitively have influences from real world cultures. The description of the Elven homeland doesn't sound Asian, or of any other culture. With their crystal tower and stuff they sound like they came out of the minds of bethsesdas writers.

[BretonMage]

I was not stating that the Mer of TES were drawn from Norse Mythology, but that the concept of elves at all was drawn from Norse Mythology. The concept being "divine beings who exist alongside men and are adept in magic (due to their divine nature)." This concept is original to Norse mythology and the Mer certainly meet these specifications, given that all Mer are descended from the Aedra. Personally I believe the Altmer are inspired by the Atlantian culture of myth. ^_^

[OblivionDuruza]

Not necessarily the Altmer, but the Dunmer have strong ties to ancestor veneration and worship, and even their worship of the Deadra takes that form, as they know them as their Greater Ancestors.

The Bosmer are somewhat harder to place in that regard, being a society based on the veneration of plants to the point where pure carnivorous behaviour and even cannibalism ensues, but the idea itself is not totally foreign, just extreme.

I'd certainly say the aim for Summerset was magic, the image of a city of lights, or a city made of glass, shimmering in the sun, of crystal towers and great coral structures, there's certainly a theme there meant to evoke feelings of awe and wonderment, IMO.

[Mod-Loving Wood Elf]

Here's my basic run-down of all the races....

Imperial: The normal human. Based off the generic human race you see in all fantasy games. Beth really hasn't developed the imperials that much over the years.

Nord: Well, they're called the nords, so it's easy to assume that they're based on the people of northern Europe. Maybe not viking, but something like that. It's epecially noticeable in Skyrim, when you hear their Scandanavian-inspired accents.

Breton: Well, Breton used to be a region in western France, at around the time of the Holy Roman Empire. But I think Beth based the race itself more on the English.

Redguard: This one is hard to place, as the redguards have evolved a lot over the series. As of Skyrim, they remind me a lot of the Egyptians due to the clothing of the Alik'r. But they posses American accents, which is interesting. They're a mix of many Earth cultures, I suppose.

Wood Elf: Most fantasy games / books have a generic tree-loving elf race. The bosmer are Beth's version of it.

High Elf: It should be noted that most fantasy games / books also have an elf race that is tall, pale-skinned, and arrogant. In Dungeons and Dragons, they are known as the Eladrin. In Lord of the Rings, they are actually CALLED high elves (i.e. Lady Galadriel). Once again, the altmer are Beth's depiction of that race.

Dark Elf: Yet again, most fantasy games and books have a race of elves that is dark and mysterious. Dungeons and Dragons has the drow, World of Warcraft has the night elves, and Elder Scrolls has the dunmer. Yes, the three elf races is getting very cliché.

Argonian: From their names, they are obviously based off of Native Americans. They originally had strong accents, but now they sound like a normal human. I'm not sure what I think of that.

Khajiit: The khajiit seem to be very Indian to me. I guess I'm only saying that because of their distinct accent, but there you go. They seem to be a mix of cultures, in truth.

So there's what I think. A lot of people will probably disagree, but to each their own, right?

[Anonymous98223]

I think that the

Imperials are mainly a Roman influence

The Nords are like the old German cultures like the Norse and also like the Scotish and I've read they have some Russian influence which I can see in Solitude, like the Blue Palace.

The Redgaurds are north African, Islamic, and Persian

The Bretons are like the Einglish, Welsh, French, Celtic, Anglo-Saxin people,and the Ancient Greeks

The Aldmer and Bosmer are influenced by other fantasy elves

The Dunmer feel like the ancient Egyptians, Islamic peoples, and fantasy influence

The Dwemer are like the Assyrians, Mesopatamians, and Persians

The Falmer seem alot like some Asian possibley Indian cultures based on the architecture of that

Spoiler:

Giant Statue during the thieves guild quests

Aylieds are like a mixture of the Egyptians (except there architectural stuff is more blueish and grey) and fantasy inspired, there idea is rather cliched

And the Orcs feel like the Mongols and the Ape culture from the Planet of the Apes

The Kahjiit are like the Egyptians and Indians

And finally the Argonians feel like the ancient South American peoples, there names even look similar