Why the High Elves..?

[PsijicOrder]

Alright, So i've been thinking. I personally am a person who favors the High Elves over any other race. What i'm starting to see is the High Elves being framed as the bad guys for every single thing. High Elves have been degraded by Skyrim completely, framing them for wanting the destruction of the world. Skyrim's also showed the High Elves to be complete total [censored] bags and now everyone hates them because of the Thalmor. I love the Thalmor, but i've seen so many posts with everyone wanting to kill them. Sure, High Elves should think their better than everyone else, but they shouldn't treat people like [&@%!], they are noble. So my question is, do you think the High Elf race has been degraded by Skyrim?

[Wolfie]

No I do not, the lore is full of them acting like that before man took over, so I'm not surpsied, I was in fact mad when they did not have them acting like that.

[zzfallens]

Yes (in Skyrim at least), because of how many of them are with the Thalmor. And the reason everyone hates the Thalmor in a land that worships Talos is because they condemn the worship of Talos...

Not only do they condemn it, but they go out of their way and persecute anyone who does it.

[JoeyDestructo]

Alright, So i've been thinking. I personally am a person who favors the High Elves over any other race. What i'm starting to see is the High Elves being framed as the bad guys for every single thing. High Elves have been degraded by Skyrim completely, framing them for wanting the destruction of the world. Skyrim's also showed the High Elves to be complete total [censored] bags and now everyone hates them because of the Thalmor. I love the Thalmor, but i've seen so many posts with everyone wanting to kill them. Sure, High Elves should think their better than everyone else, but they shouldn't treat people like [&@%!] they are noble. So my question is, do you think the High Elf race has been degraded by Skyrim?

your right they only practice EUGENIC INFANTICIDE...... how bad could they be?

[PsijicOrder]

I know! But they only practice that because Bethesda has made the lore that way. Why did Bethesda screw them over so hard? They've been completely condemned now because Bethesda insists on the making them the bad guys.

[Wolfie]

I know! But they only practice that because Bethesda has made the lore that way. Why did Bethesda screw them over so hard? They've been completely condemned now because Bethesda insists on the making them the bad guys.

Why was the empire the bad guy in skyrim?
Why is the mythic dawn the bad guy in skyrim?
Evrey game needs a bad guy, it was their turn and it makes sense, Dark elfs are to dmanged, beast races wont have as many pepole there

Empire and sotrmclocks are a you get to pick
Redgaurds are busy

Really when it comes down to it, it was the logical choice for as bad guy, being a bad guy is not bad.
I like many bad guys in games\storys

[GhostOfNumenor]

Alright, So i've been thinking. I personally am a person who favors the High Elves over any other race. What i'm starting to see is the High Elves being framed as the bad guys for every single thing. High Elves have been degraded by Skyrim completely, framing them for wanting the destruction of the world. Skyrim's also showed the High Elves to be complete total [censored] bags and now everyone hates them because of the Thalmor. I love the Thalmor, but i've seen so many posts with everyone wanting to kill them. Sure, High Elves should think their better than everyone else, but they shouldn't treat people like [&@%!] they are noble. So my question is, do you think the High Elf race has been degraded by Skyrim?

Plenty of Altmer are shown as good guys, too. The Thalmor are the arch-enemy in Skyrim because they enforce the banning of Talos, and the Thalmor are predominantly Altmer. So what you're seeing is a negative reaction to the Thalmor because of their version of fascism and racial supremacy.

I generally really like the Altmer, too; Tolkien's version provided them a positive predisposition with me. They're alike in name only, but they are still quite proud and powerful. It's just that the Thalmor are, from the POV of humanity, evil.

[Black Thunder]

Hm, this is difficult.

The Empire is prejudice-ish and unfair. That's why I'm with the Stormcloakes.

But I don't like Stormcloakes because they are somewhat "racist" towards some races.

So, all in all, I'm neutral.

[PsijicOrder]

Well, you're right really, I mean it's just a balance, every race has it's own peak then it's taken down a notch to restore order, who knows which race will be next and who knows when the High Elves will prosper again if they even do.

[GhostOfNumenor]

I'd say the Altmer are prospering quite well...lol Unless you mean it a different way.

Side note: Mannimarco, Cameron Usurper, and Mankar Cameron were all Altmer and the bad guys in previous ES games.

[Wolfie]

Well, you're right really, I mean it's just a balance, every race has it's own peak then it's taken down a notch to restore order, who knows which race will be next and who knows when the High Elves will prosper again if they even do.

Uhh bad or no they are prospering, the first or 2nd most powerful group, and even if they are #2 they almost beat #1 the first time, they are winng at evrey step and right now are on top of the world basicly.

[PsijicOrder]

Now that you've said that about the previous games, like, they really have been framed a lot for bad things. And, I feel like if you want to play as a Altmer, you shouldn't be discriminated against. Because they've always been looked down upon because they always think so highly of themselves. Who knows, maybe i'm just too high of an elf to be having this conversation.

[JoeyDestructo]

Now that you've said that about the previous games, like, they really have been framed a lot for bad things. And, I feel like if you want to play as a Altmer, you shouldn't be discriminated against. Because they've always been looked down upon because they always think so highly of themselves. Who knows, maybe i'm just too high of an elf to be having this conversation.

heres why people may not like them.....

"High elves consider themselves to be the only perfect race. Over hundreds of generations they have bred themselves into a racially pure line, and are now almost identical to one another in appearance. The theory that the High Elves do not reproduce as quickly or as often as humans is false. Rather, and to my horror, they kill nine out of ten babies born to them in their obsession for purity.
"The Altmer despise other Elves as unsophisticated churls and barely consider the non-Aldmeri races at all. They pay their Imperial tithes, I'm sure, not for fear of war with the humans but rather to keep an invasion from "infecting" their islands.
"Breeding outside the pure line is a terrible, unthinkable crime, and taken as prima facia evidence of the tainted blood of the individual in question- if they were, they wouldn't have the impulse to do it. Exile to the mainland is regarded as equivalent to a death sentence, since there is no purpose in living outside their ideal society.
"They have a high regard for order and gravitate naturally towards wearing uniforms and speaking in formal patterns. Their trees and their livestock have been bred to be as standard and ideal as they are. They have no real names of their own, only combinations of numbers that, when spoken aloud, sound to human ears as such. They feel no real tenderness for one another and have no concept of compassion.
"They are decadent and self-obsessed, and prize form and their own brand of manners or style as their main value. Aware of their aristocratic position, they surround themselves with riches and treasures, the works of great artists and the finest of everything, but have no real appreciation for any of these things. Each of them is concerned solely with himself, and as a result they do no real socializing; they meet and hold courts only to demonstrate their importance and power to each other. Rarely do they speak to the human ambassadors of Cyrodiil; when they do, their speech is full of riddles, or spell-words that enchant one to a satisfied madness.

[Wolfie]

Now that you've said that about the previous games, like, they really have been framed a lot for bad things.

I'm unsure what you mean by "framed"
but if you look at any race in lore they all have bad and good guys, some good High elfs chanclur form oblivion, a good few work in temples, etc

And, I feel like if you want to play as a Altmer, you shouldn't be discriminated against.

In a perfect world it would be so, but neither world is perfect
what about dark elfs? what about the beast races? they all have something aginst them

Because they've always been looked down upon because they always think so highly of themselves

smug pepole are not usaly well liked in the real wrodl either

[GhostOfNumenor]

JoeyDestructo, where's that quote from?

[JoeyDestructo]

JoeyDestructo, where's that quote from?

Pocket Guide to the Empire

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Gu ... i_Dominion

[PsijicOrder]

HOLY [&@%!]!! Altmer got screwed by Bethesda SO hard. O.O!!

[Wolfie]

HOLY [&@%!] Altmer got screwed by Bethesda SO hard. O.O!!

What do you mean? how are they getting "screwed"? this is a very weird thread...

Can you try to exsplain your self better?

[GhostOfNumenor]

Sorry, JoeyDestructo, I don't want to start an argument...but I wouldn't trust the PGE1 for any lore related to culture. The Imperial Geographical Society at the turn of the 3E was extremely biased. The PGE3 is a lot less biased and a little more reliable.

[PsijicOrder]

They are getting screwed by Bethesda by being made into greedy, selfish [&@%!]. That's why all these bad guys have been Altmer! Because the Altmer are so self obsessed and self centered they strive for power! And they are all the same because of their 'pure' race, so everyone has almost identical thought process. Now.. If ghostofnumenor is right, and this IS in fact some Imperial [&@%!] over exaggerating.. Then I'm about to be a High Elven stormcloak and mess those Imperials up. ;D

[JoeyDestructo]

Sorry, JoeyDestructo, I don't want to start an argument...but I wouldn't trust the PGE1 for any lore related to culture. The Imperial Geographical Society at the turn of the 3E was extremely biased. The PGE3 is a lot less biased and a little more reliable.

but the PGE 3 doesnt even go into detail regarding Altmer society. and IMO the fact that the Altmer practice Eugenic's is enough evidence to suggest that their arrogance extends much farther then just one part of their society.

[Wolfie]

Each race has that

Orcs: Rage and "beast"
Dark elfs: yeah
Imperals: always going for gold and cheating people out of things with their tongues

etc
High elfs have not been screwed, their are some very nice ones in skyrim, the Thalmor are evil not high elfs

[GhostOfNumenor]

but the PGE 3 doesnt even go into detail regarding Altmer society. and IMO the fact that the Altmer practice Eugenic's is enough evidence to suggest that their arrogance extends much farther then just one part of their society.

There was a huge debate about this a long time ago; essentially, the general conclusion was that the practice of eugenics was either made-up or ended before Talos took his seat. It may have happened, but most people believe it didn't.

[PsijicOrder]

I'd rather be a unique Orc than a cloned Altmer.

[fetcherswit]

Longtime lurker, sorry.

Grains of Salt:

1. The "Rising Threat" books were supposed to be written by an Altmer Refugee who fled the Thalmor.

2. Of course, Elder Scrolls Books have proven to be unreliable sources of information at the best of times.

3. And even the introduction to the books says the author might be a bit insane.

4. But then again, it all might be some sort of clever Thalmor Trick to get folks to sympathize with the Altmer "fleeing" into their lands so that they'll never see it coming.

5. Mmm-hmm, they ARE clever enough for that!

6. The High Elves at the College of Winterhold don't seem to like the Thalmor too much (although one of them thinks the local Thalmor rep is "hot" haha).

7. Although that might be another clever Thalmor Trick!

8. Couple of the human farmers around Whiterun definitely seem to be married to Altmer women, though (an Imperial and Nord, I think), so the whole "purity of the bloodlines" thingie mentioned in that other book don't seem to be that big a deal for some, at least.

And you can see that with your own eyes.

9. But then again, they might just be deep cover "sleeper" agents...

10. Its kinda weird that there's no word for "Skyrimmer," y'know, like "Skyrim Locals" that ain't Nords.

11. And that might be the most clever Thalmor Trick of all!

All in all I've always liked playing "golden boy" High Elves just 'cause its fun to be taller than everybody else, and you just sorta come to expect the short folks to resent you a bit, little toughguys, y'know, they're so cute haha