TES:V, "What about Morrowind?"

[OblivionDuruza]

While I'd love for the map to be true, I have to tend to agree with enyamer, because I don't see a reason that the East Empire Company would ignore the Aldmeri Dominion and the renaming of Summerset, now Alinor, in addition to the seperation of Elsweyr into the Kingdoms of Pelletine and Aenequina.

Could it be that Morrowind exists now as a colony of Black Marsh, not as part of Black Marsh itself?

Nonetheless, the map is a great find, and along with the words of The Great War, it does inspire hope.

[Godkiller]

Looking at it more, and comparing it to other maps...the map is nearly identical to the political map released with TES:IV, except Solstheim is absent. I'm guessing Bethesda was a little to lazy to change the map in accordance to lore .

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Much of the dialogue in Skyrim, as I said before, suggests many areas of Morrowind have been resettled by Dunmer. I was under the impression the Argonians pulled back South again not long after the initial military actions. After the Umbriel crisis I'd assume even more returned home to check on their families or repopulate areas devastated by the Infernal City.

[Narzul]

Keep in mind that the author of the Great War may not have written it in 4E201. The last event he mentions, the second treaty of Stros M'Kai, took place in 4E180. Who knows what has changed in Morrowind since the Great War was written?

[OblivionDuruza]

Either way, my only point with The Great War is that it indicates some progress towards recovery has been made. I for one would like to believe things are improving, my only real issue with the map is the inaccuracy about the Aldmeri Dominion.

[beny15]

Anybody have any info on what could have possibly happened to Divyath Fyr? (Really liked that guy)
Also From some in-game dialogue in the DB sanctuary it appears that Vvardenfell is rather habitable as one of you 'famiily' members had a recent job there.

Just something to think about.

[legoless]

According to Brelyna Maryon in the College of Winterhold, the Telvanni are doing well enough to send their kids to college in far-off lands, and be worried about how well their kids are doing. This could lead one to believe that, even if Morrowind as a whole is now in pieces, the Telvanni are doing the best out of any faction in the shattered land. Other than that, I've got nothing about the Telvanni's situation. I'm guessing that at least the Dunmer can inhabit Morrowind, even with most of the land becoming an ashen waste.

The Telvanni were destroyed by the Argonians. Brelyna Maryon is simply descended from Telvanni stock.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yeah, she's just from a bloodline associated with them, possibly cousins of Aryon or something judging by the name. The actual Clan was annihilated in their capital cities by the Argonians.

[Kerr]

Yeah the Red Year really messed Morrowind up big time and the Argonians didn't help matters much.

...the "once-great" House Hlaalu....

What to you mean once great? We will be forever great.

[OblivionDuruza]

I've never come across that "once great" reference, but I have read "one of the most noble houses". Anyone know where I might find "once great"?

Also, on House Telvanni, I'm confident that it was only Clan Telvanni that was annihilated, as far as the House, they probably still exist, although a name change might be on the cards if the former Clan is forgotten and some new Clan takes prominence. Many Clans besides the primary one make up a Great House.

[legoless]

Also, on House Telvanni, I'm confident that it was only Clan Telvanni that was annihilated, as far as the House, they probably still exist, although a name change might be on the cards if the former Clan is forgotten and some new Clan takes prominence. Many Clans besides the primary one make up a Great House.

Sadly, thanks to a typo on the part of the developers, the actual clan which Brand-Shei belongs to will be forever known in lore as "Tenvanni". Hopefully there's some dialogue which can refute this obvious misspelling, although I have a feeling that common sense will be the only indicator.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

That actual source calls it Telvanni. It's only misspelled once. The other times it's fine.

[Grove-of-Hares]

Anybody have any info on what could have possibly happened to Divyath Fyr? (Really liked that guy).

Probably hanging out somewhere in Tamriel, creating daughters/wives to battle Argonians...

Seriously, I don't know, though. He was pretty powerful (lore-wise), so I assume he would have survived the past few hundred years.

In fact, if, like The Doors of Oblivion discussed, he could truly journey between Mundus and the various realms Oblivion at will, perhaps he did so during the Invasion. If Sul (in the books so many hate) could do it, then I'm positive Fyr could do it.

[OblivionDuruza]

Yeah I think we can be fairly confident that Clan Tenvanni is just a typo, although perhaps Bethesda is trying to tell us something

As for Divayth Fyr, I'm sure he's still alive and kicking somewhere, I mean, he is one of, if not the, longest living characters of the TES franchise and it'd be a pity if he kicked the bucket before at least 5,000

[Kerr]

Anybody have any info on what could have possibly happened to Divyath Fyr? (Really liked that guy)

Dead, Nerevarine killed him for his armour.
Then again never know he could still be alive and making female clones of himself.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Morrowind treats him as an "essential" character - one who must survive at least until the end of the main quest. If he dies you even fail the back path method of beating Dagoth Ur. Also, there's some dev posts by Kurt Kuhlmann that are still at the Imperial Library mentioning some of Fyr's activities after Morrowind and before Oblivion. This implies at the very least Kuhlmann, a lore writer still employed by Bethsoft and who wrote large parts of Oblivion's and Skyrim's plots, feels he wasn't killed by the Nerevarine - at least by that time period.

[beny15]

Yeah I think we can be fairly confident that Clan Tenvanni is just a typo, although perhaps Bethesda is trying to tell us something

As for Divayth Fyr, I'm sure he's still alive and kicking somewhere, I mean, he is one of, if not the, longest living characters of the TES franchise and it'd be a pity if he kicked the bucket before at least 5,000

Is not 'Yagrum Bagran'(however you spell/pronounce his name) not the oldest living being on tamriel?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Is not 'Yagrum Bagran'(however you spell/pronounce his name) not the oldest living being on tamriel?

He's right up there, to be certain.

I don't think he's older than Fyr, though. Fyr is over 4000 years old. He is stated to have been an Aldmer, a Chimer and a Dunmer. This means he must have been born before the exodus of Veloth from Sumerset Isles. In fact Fyr must have went with him. This would make Fyr older than the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur, and he ironically outlived them despite never making himself a god in any way. If Yagrum is as old as him, I'd be surprised. It's more likely Yagrum was from Nerevar's generation or even the one after. He may have been a very young elf when the Dwemer disappeared.


There may be some ancient lich or were beast in some remote area who is older. It's hard to say. If some abomination from a Wild Hunt or Bloodmoon is still out there, or some ancient vampire, they'd technically be immortal until killed.

[OblivionDuruza]

Fyr is said to be the oldest living who has not resorted to Lichcraft or Divinity. Bagarn would certainly be old, probably older than the Tribunal, however we have no real evidence on his exact age or how old he was before the disappearance of the Dwemer.

[Porphyry]

There are multiple dialogue references in TES V of some Dunmer returning to Morrowind. The Argonians pulled out not long after their initial invasion, especially after the whole Umbriel crisis. The air became more breathable and the waters around Vvardenfell probably stopped boiling after another decade or two. Yes, there's a Morrowind. It's not the same as it used to be, but neither is Cyrodill or any other province at this point.

I can confirm the dialogue references. Sounds like Mournhold, at least, is still extant.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I've played through the game with two or three more characters since the post you responded to, and I've had some thoughts about clarifications of terms and other things.


Wording is important. We know Clan Telvanni was wiped out, but that's not the same as House Telvanni.

In Morrowind, and Dunmer culture in general, there's a distinction between family, Clan, house and House. There's usually some overlap between the four but they're not interchangeable.

A family would be like the Aryon family. Anyone having that last name is either a part of the family or the extended Clan, and also the minor house, but not everyone in House Telvanni is an Aryon.

So when they say Clan Telvanni was wiped out, that's likely a reference to the titular family and their cousins. I'm not sure how influential they were on the mainland but there wasn't anyone with the surname Telvanni on Vvardenfell that I recall. At least in that district, they were a non entity.

They were probably targeted by the Argonians for name value, and because they're an "old money" Clan who owned countless slaves over the centuries. The death of Clan Telvanni doesn't spell doom for House Telvanni. Besides, Brand-Shei isn't ever the target of a kill quest in Skyrim. Despite going to jail according to a certain player action, he could survive and have children.


About Hlaalu - they're referred to as a "once great House". I believe their power was reduced, but they're still the strongest House in Morrowind. At least as of the events of Lord of Souls, a novel that took place 40 years after Red Year, the Indarys Clan was very prominent in Cyrodill, and it was said they got their positions because they were Hlaalu and therefore big cronies with the Empire. Apparently the Mede Dynasty is as friendly to Hlaalu Dunmer as the Septims were.

[Porphyry]

I've played through the game with two or three more characters since the post you responded to, and I've had some thoughts about clarifications of terms and other things.

I read somewhere that Azura cursed the Tribunal to be forever tied to the fate of the Dunmer, is that canon?
If so, does that mean Sotha Sil is going to make a return of some sort?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I think it's the other way around - she tied the Dunmer to their fate, but not to the extreme that they'd die at the same time or anything. It's kind of the theme of "sins of the father will be inherited by the son". The Tribunal sinned and all Dunmer were punished with their dark skin and red eyes. I believe that's the extent of the curse.

[Porphyry]

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Gideon Dragontongue]

I think it's the other way around - she tied the Dunmer to their fate, but not to the extreme that they'd die at the same time or anything. It's kind of the theme of "sins of the father will be inherited by the son". The Tribunal sinned and all Dunmer were punished with their dark skin and red eyes. I believe that's the extent of the curse.

That's how I interpreted it as well.