Stormcloaks or Legion - which do you prefer?

[NordicMarksman]

I say we end this discussion. We will never come to a conclusion or agreement.

That's why it's called "Which one do you prefer?", not, "Which one is better?" . I think this discussion is very fun, actually.

Normally, I would continue with a discussion like this, but I would miss alot of it since I am well... playing the masterpiece of a game we call The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. To all that is involved in this discussion, They both have their problems. I may like the Stormcloaks better, but they have just as many problems as the Legion. I guess we will just have to let the poll decide who prefers what. So everyone take part in the poll!
Valdast, I can tell you, but there is a spoiler

Spoiler:

In the main quest you get them to sign a treaty, temporarily

[SAMIAM]

Haha Imperials winning. EAT IT STORMCLOAKS <-- TROLOLOLOL

[comeatmebrah]

I think Stormcloaks is canon. The player was kidnapped for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, sentenced to death then nearly decapitated because of the Imperials. That kind of stuff doesn't go away.

Spoiler:

Plus Ulfric never really 'assassinated' the High King as the Imperial propaganda suggests. Ulfric challenged him to a 1 on 1 duel for Nord honor and the High King accepted on his terms. Also, in the Imperial storyline, once Ulfric is killed, he is lynched and shown to everyone in town, where as General Tullius in the Stormcloaks storyline gets a respectable death. When Ulfric captures Tullius, he gives him a chance to live but if the other way around, Ulfric isn't given a fair trial and is promptly executed.

Despite the justified racism shown by the Stormcloaks, the Imperials are the bad guys here.

[OblivionDuruza]

Not sure what you mean about the endings, but neither has been confirmed as Canon either way, yet. Most likely, a third option will be Canon, which I did think might be Thalmor, but now I think will be something totally different after seeing all the Mer hate around abouts. Whatever it is, Bethesda needs to retain neutrality or risk [&@%!] off half its fan-base or more.

[FrostyInferno016]

I honestly don't think it'd be that serious. Most people don't get all down and stuff over something like that. Whichever direction Bethesda goes, I'd be happy with and ultimately so would the rest of the fans. It's probably more likely that Ulfric would take High King and that be canon, but you never know...with the involvement of the Elder Scroll, it could be yet another Warp, or perhaps neither will win and Skyrim would be split...infinite possibilities. I just don't think people would take it that seriously.

[The Silent Striker]

I just don't undertsand how the thalmor nearly took over tamerial. The only people who support the thalmor, are probably high elves, and no one else. Not even all high elves then. I would say ~80 of tamerial were against them.

[SAMIAM]

The Dragonborn should use one to destroy the other then kill the leader of whoever is left and conquer Tamriel. He or she does have the soul of a dragon after all which have the will to power.

[Jaime Gemstone]

Despite the justified racism shown by the Stormcloaks, the Imperials are the bad guys here.

Justified racism? I never thought I'd hear that.

[Frost Mage]

Even though, yes, that doesn't make sense to have a justified prejudice, they don't have a good reason to be racist towards other races. Any lore you look at, the Stormcloaks ultimately start the fight.

[cowleyj]

I support the Imperials, especially after seeing the stormcloaks attack may favourite city (Whiterun) and abuse that elf in wind helm.

[Giordano]

About the canon outcome:

I think Beth would go with a compromise end result. Ulfric and his Stormcloaks get more political breathing room, perhaps Talos while [&@%!] off the Dominion but not instigating a war. Skyrim will become an autocratic state within the Empire, sort of like Austria and it's sub-kingdom Hungary "united" forming Austria-Hungary (Cyrodiil-Skyrim ). It'll end having the Dominion and the Empire even more hostile to each other, though.

I just don't undertsand how the thalmor nearly took over tamerial. The only people who support the thalmor, are probably high elves, and no one else. Not even all high elves then. I would say ~80 of tamerial were against them.

The Dominion did not take over Tamriel. They invaded Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, reaching to the Imperial City. That's it.

They have the armies of Summerset Isles, Valenwood, and clans from Elswyer in their armies. Don't think Thalmor = high elves::high elves = Thalmor. There are plenty of Imperial high elf citizens loyal to the Empire.

[OblivionDuruza]

I honestly don't think it'd be that serious. Most people don't get all down and stuff over something like that. Whichever direction Bethesda goes, I'd be happy with and ultimately so would the rest of the fans. It's probably more likely that Ulfric would take High King and that be canon, but you never know...with the involvement of the Elder Scroll, it could be yet another Warp, or perhaps neither will win and Skyrim would be split...infinite possibilities. I just don't think people would take it that seriously.

It's not about people getting "down" over it, it's more that Bethesda has some decency, and wouldn't do that to their fans. What's the point of playing the game if everything you've accomplished gets undone? What if you saved Tamriel only for Alduin to return and destroy it all, it'd be pretty shallow as far as a 'victory'.

It's not about random fan nerdrage, it's about something all developers do. The Warp in the West itself was enough of a kick in the teeth, but it didn't favour any particular side. Bethesda can surely come up with a valid explanation that satisfies all sides in the matter.

I just don't undertsand how the thalmor nearly took over tamerial. The only people who support the thalmor, are probably high elves, and no one else. Not even all high elves then. I would say ~80 of tamerial were against them.

I wouldn't say that. The Dominion doesn't seem to have much of the disunity factor the men races have. You've got a couple of Imperial dissidents speaking out against the Thalmor, and a reclusive Order who have gone into hiding, but there isn't any indication of any open opposition to the Thalmor, in Alinor or Valenwood, or even Elsweyr.

[GhostOfNumenor]

I think it's interesting how the Empire allowed Hammerfell secede, but are hell-bent on keeping hold of Skyrim. It indicates to me that their main concern is Skyrim's resources rather than it's people. So, despite all of their problems, I principally support the Stormcloaks.

[OblivionDuruza]

Or it could be that they still represent more than half the Nordic populace, and thus have the support of most Nords, while they did not in Hammerfell.

[Giordano]

Hammerfell ceded right after the Great War. The same reasons why the Empire couldn't fight the Thalmor, they couldn't fight Hammerfell. 26 years later and the Empire is stronger and more desperate to maintain it's borders.

[GhostOfNumenor]

Doesn't change my opinion. The Nords feel let down, even those who support the Empire. The Thalmor were no longer in any position to make demands, but Mede ceded. I think he was smart to consolidate his forces and try to wait, but to give the Thalmor what they originally wanted really rubs the salt in.

[OblivionDuruza]

True, but although the Nords aren't happy with the Concordat, most realise that their future with the Empire is one of potential mutual advantage, and that it's foolish to fight their fellow man when the threat of the Thalmor is their most pressing concern.

[Wolfie]

True, but although the Nords aren't happy with the Concordat, most realise that their future with the Empire is one of potential mutual advantage, and that it's foolish to fight their fellow man when the threat of the Thalmor is their most pressing concern.

and yet the empire dose nothing, they are letting the Thalmor grow, if they wait they will NOT be able to stop them, the empire WILL wait to long and doom it self.

[GhostOfNumenor]

True, but although the Nords aren't happy with the Concordat, most realise that their future with the Empire is one of potential mutual advantage, and that it's foolish to fight their fellow man when the threat of the Thalmor is their most pressing concern.

You'd hope they'd be that intelligent, but most of them aren't. Tell them to go kill a bear "Da!" Tell them to understand the complexities and consequences of world-politics..."Uh..? Kill bear?!"

Love Nords to death, but asking most of them to understand political intrigues isn't a good idea.

That said, the Empire is dying and corrupt anyhow.

[OblivionDuruza]

Well there's a lot of Nords who aren't brain-dead, from the Jarls like Balgruuf to even the common folk like Alvor the Blacksmith. It's not so much that any of them aren't that bright (apart from perhaps Rolff and Galmar Stone-Fist), it's that some of them are a little too proud and a little too ballsy for their own good.

The Empire isn't dead yet, it can still fight the Thalmor. As it stands, neither Ulfric nor the Empire are actually fighting to free Skyrim from the Thalmor, so I don't accept that as a vaild argument, because if Ulfric really wished to, he could march on the Embassy and string up Thalmor patrols in defiance.

[Wolfie]

The Empire isn't dead yet, it can still fight the Thalmor. As it stands, neither Ulfric nor the Empire are actually fighting to free Skyrim from the Thalmor, so I don't accept that as a vaild argument, because if Ulfric really wished to, he could march on the Embassy and string up Thalmor patrols in defiance. [/color]

and then the Thalmor would ask the empire to help them fight these rebels as
A. they want a cival war
B. they would not want to fight
C. the empire would acept as it would not want to start a war with thalmor

Come on man you know its not that easy

[OblivionDuruza]

But Ulfric has made no attempt to do so, which means that you cannot claim he has more intent than the Empire. On one hand you say it isn't easy as an excuse for Ulfric's lack of action, on another you say that the Empire isn't doing enough? Ulfric has enough men and arms to fight the Empire and over half the Nordic populace, why not instead turn their blades to the Thalmor?

[GhostOfNumenor]

Well there's a lot of Nords who aren't brain-dead, from the Jarls like Balgruuf to even the common folk like Alvor the Blacksmith. It's not so much that any of them aren't that bright (apart from perhaps Rolff and Galmar Stone-Fist), it's that some of them are a little too proud and a little too ballsy for their own good.

The Empire isn't dead yet, it can still fight the Thalmor. As it stands, neither Ulfric nor the Empire are actually fighting to free Skyrim from the Thalmor, so I don't accept that as a vaild argument, because if Ulfric really wished to, he could march on the Embassy and string up Thalmor patrols in defiance.

I was just hyperbolizing[sic]. The Nords actually are pretty crafty, when not blue off their butts. Plus, I wanted to see if I could get that to sound like a Russian accent in your head...did it work?

The Empire, to me, still has military power...but politically, it's pretty near death. Too much power to those too afraid to defend anyone but themselves, which is why they conceded so much in the Concordat. The Empire to the Nords is akin to the Austrians to the Germans in WWI (IMO), whom the Germans dubbed as "[being] chained to a corpse".

[Arkhon]

I don't think either are perfect. But the definite enemy is the Thalmor. And although i sided with the Stormcloaks, that was before I had witnessed the outright racism in Windhelm. And although Ulfric wants to defeat the Thalmor, so does the Imperial Army. And I don't see how a weakened Empire and an independent Skyrim could defeat the Thalmor if a unified empire couldn't.

That's exactly my point! Only unified Empire can stand against the Aldmeri Dominion.

[ArgonianDunmer]

Seconded, the Empire has a better shot than the Stormcloaks at defeating the Thalmor. Ulfric doesn't even have the support of his own people.