Stormcloaks or Legion - which do you prefer?

[Gallus]

All my characters are stormcloaks. I see the thalmor as a sort of tyrannical christian inquisitors (capturing nords for worshiping Talos, torturing them and then executing them).

I'm an atheist personally, but in the game world there are real deities, and I think any faction that's oppressing people as bad as the thalmor deserve to die. Empire is working with the thalmor ( by choice or not doesn't matter imo), so they're guilty by association as far as I'm concerned.

So I always side with Stormcloaks and kill as many Thalmor prison convoys and imperial camps as I can find. In future TES games, if the empire rebels against the Aldmeri dominion, and stands up to them with some sort of alliance with the other races, then I'd be ok with them.

But until then, the imperials will die by my blade

I joined the Legion. I'm a redguard girl. I think Ulfricc is a dick with a gay voice and a [&@%!] attitude

You have to be kidding me!? First of all, I agree with the other poster that using "gay" as an insult is pretty dumb. (More christian nonsense rotting people's brains).

Second, you dislike ULFRIC!?!?! for having a bad VOICE and ATTITUDE!?

Excuse me, but General Tullius sounds like someone is holding his nose shut while he talks. Aside from his nasally super-nerd sounding voice, he talks down to you the entire time.

Example quotes from General Lame: "You'll do whatever Legate Rikke tells you to do!". and "Are you done here!?"

Every time I talked to Rikke or Tullius they were rude and ungrateful for my service.

I hope they both die in a fire. (Oh wait, they do every time )

[SAMIAM]

Ha, I think the people being persecuted are more like the Christians and the Thalmor are the Roman Empire feeding them to the pagans. Plus the Empire is overwhelmed, and the government is weak, thats why its the Dovahkins responsibility to become a hero for the Empire wipe out Ulfric and his racists foo's then complete the DB quest ending. Plus Lady Elsif is awesome and her husband was murdered by a power hungry fool and needs to be avenged for her loss.

[tharg]

Which do you prefer and why?
Legion or Stormcloaks.

Nords mainly Stormcloaks.

Non Nords in Windhelm Stormcloaks as long as they might be overheard.

Everything else Legion or don't care and please stop fighting.

Currently simultaneously playing a (One handed, Block, Light Armour) Nord and a (Destruction, Conjuration, Light Armour) Breton and matching the Legion and Stormcloak missions.

[ThE cHoSeN oNe LDB3]

Personally, I go for the Stormcloaks. The Empire is weak and not what it used to be and run by a cowardly Emperor. I can understand why most of the Nords are racist since most of them fought in the great war

[frostmaw]

I always go Stormcloak.

The Empire tried to execute me when my name wasn't even on the list. No appeal, no trial, not even a record of any crimes committed. Luckily, Alduin got there just in time to rescue me. I hate them and I will kill them all.

And then the Empire agreed to outlaw a whole religion, and let the Thalmor roam around enforcing it. No way! I don't want to worship Talos or any of the other gods, (I'm really polluted with Hircine and every other Daedric Prince who gave me something cool), but I just don't like people who tell me what to do. Then again, the Daedric Princes all told me what to do, so I'm bitter and taking it out on the empire.

Stormcloaks are the good guys. Imperials are the bad guys. Kill all the Imperials and long live King Ulfric.

[OblivionDuruza]

You know, this thread should probably be merged into this one, and a poll wouldn't hurt if it were added either. Just a thought, merry Christmas y'all .

[The Sexy Stableman]

Imperials.

At first I wanted to join the Stormcloaks, but then I visited Windhelm and saw how Ulfric treats Argonians and Dark Elves.
And I started thinking about my Khajiit brothers and sisters. After that I tried to understand politics, I failed. But then I met

Spoiler:

Sheogorath

, ate of lot of Elsweyr Fondue and decided to join a real army.

Ulfric isn't even angry at me, I know, because

Spoiler:

I talked with him in Sovngarde. Or was it the mixture of ale and moon sugar?

[Mai'ik]

ok, so the empire is weak. Thats perfect for anyone with a minimum of ambition, and a willingness to take the empire into their own hands.. Personally, i dont believe Skyrim ends with the last of the DB quests, but only time will show that.. But personally, i'd rather be emporer than the tossed away lackey of a would be high chief.

[Narzul]

Is Thalmor the arch-enemy of the civil war? I don't understand how could they be walking in Skyrim's road peacefully and attacking my character ocassionally.

Because the Empire was forced to allow the Thalmor to do that. It's one of the terms in the White Gold Concordat.

[Rynkar]

I hate it when people use the 'the empire tried to kill me' argument.
You get caught in the company of wanted men and women, no matter if your wanted or not usually ends up with you being grouped with them.
Also I think tullias is slightly more caring for the bystanders, when he ordered his troops to get the town people to safety, when Ulfric just wanted him and his troops to be safe.

[Wolfie]

Ulfric wanted to live true how ever, most of his pepole where bound and or injuired and in a place where even if they did help they would still be killed

so yeah thats the same as pepole usign the 'the empire tried to kill me' argument.

[Giordano]

Honestly, the "They tried to kill me argument" is a very, very valid excuse. It is more of a "I'm never joining the Empire" than a "I'm going to unleash my revenge on the Empire". Neutrality is the most realistic course of action here, however, it is still plausible for some hint of anti-Imperialist turning extremist by this event.

A popular comparison people tend to use is that in Oblivion you were imprisoned by the Empire and yet you served and saved it. I tend to look at it as a recently arrived prisoner receiving a pardon. You're so new, the dark elf across the hall welcomes you with taunts and insults. So, at worst, you've been in jail for about an hour. In Skyrim, you are immediately sent to the execution board, the second out of all the ACTUAL Stormcloak enemies. If the dragon came even 15 seconds later, you would of been dead.

So I definitely view the "They tried to kill me" argument as completely reasonable. It probably shouldn't cause an extreme hate for the Empire with retaliation, but you've pretty crazy to forgive them so easily.


(This is why my main character is strictly neutral and why Imperial characters tend to ignore the whole execution crisis, acting as a traveler passing thru Helgen instead.)

[frostmaw]

Also, after seeing that Imperialist torturer in Helgen, I'll always run with Ralof and not Hadvar. I'd like a mod in the future where I could run with Hadvar and then switch sides when I see the torture chamber and kill him.

I'm still working on avenging Lokir the horse thief. I figure if I can pile the Imperial soldier bodies up as high as the forge in Solitude then that should cover it. This would be easier if the werewolf roar would work on guards.

[Will Zurmacht]

after seeing that Imperialist torturer in Helgen

Guess this is where I point out that torture was a staple of the justice system during late antiquity and the medieval period, for both secular and ecclesiastical courts.

For good measure, there are a couple of torture racks in good repair in Ulfprick's castle dungeon.

[noobishlord]

An argument for those who won't join the Empire because of the whole "they tried to cut off my head in the beginning" thing. You know those Stormcloaks you love so much? Well, it's because of them that you were in a situation to have your head cut off. Think of that.

[Wolfie]

An argument for those who won't join the Empire because of the whole "they tried to cut off my head in the beginning" thing. You know those Stormcloaks you love so much? Well, it's because of them that you were in a situation to have your head cut off. Think of that.

if we want to get down to it, its the thalmors fault as they planted the seeds for this war and such.

and then we can blame anyone we want that way

I dont think it was the stormclocks fault that
A. we where not on the list and the empire did not care
B. The Empire had forsaken the stormclocks
and C. the empire is diying.

[Arkhon]

I've joined the Imperial Legion but the decision wasn't easy. I do support the right for each nation to rule over their own land with their own customs and traditions (<Stormcloaks) but as the Legion soldiers mention; it is Empire which keeps the Aldmeri Dominion from literally occupying the remaining Empire's lands, also some of the soldiers, for example General Tullius, claim that the Empire just needs some time to rebuild the Legions and then finally destroy the Dominion. That's why I'm siding up with the Empire. I trust it that indeed Empire just needs some time to rebuild its military strength and then finally destroy the Aldmeri Dominion but to do so remaining Empire must stay as a whole. Otherwise Aldmeri Dominion will take over each of the remaining provinces and enforce the Elven supremacy over the Man (note that the Empire did treat all the provinces equally and fairly). It's not that easy but I have always believed in the Empire.

One more thing, do not forget that there are also external threats to the continent of Tamriel! Who will deal with them in case of another aggression on the continent? Aldmeri Dominion? Please...

[OblivionDuruza]

Honestly, the "They tried to kill me argument" is a very, very valid excuse. It is more of a "I'm never joining the Empire" than a "I'm going to unleash my revenge on the Empire". Neutrality is the most realistic course of action here, however, it is still plausible for some hint of anti-Imperialist turning extremist by this event.

A popular comparison people tend to use is that in Oblivion you were imprisoned by the Empire and yet you served and saved it. I tend to look at it as a recently arrived prisoner receiving a pardon. You're so new, the dark elf across the hall welcomes you with taunts and insults. So, at worst, you've been in jail for about an hour. In Skyrim, you are immediately sent to the execution board, the second out of all the ACTUAL Stormcloak enemies. If the dragon came even 15 seconds later, you would of been dead.

So I definitely view the "They tried to kill me" argument as completely reasonable. It probably shouldn't cause an extreme hate for the Empire with retaliation, but you've pretty crazy to forgive them so easily.


(This is why my main character is strictly neutral and why Imperial characters tend to ignore the whole execution crisis, acting as a traveler passing thru Helgen instead.)

The Captain who orders the PC's execution was clearly wrong to do so, but this in itself should not condemn the Empire as a whole. Hadvar is quick to save the player and lead him or her to safety. General Tullius is quick to accept the player, and to make clear that the Empire holds no outstanding grudge against him or her. The PC was a criminal prior to the opening scene of the game, but the Empire gives the PC pardon for their heroism at Helgen, if anything, the fact the Empire had the PC captive at the beginning of the game, yet forgives the player's crimes and is willing to accept them nonetheless, is a credit to the Empire.

[ArgonianDunmer]

Empire all the way! Death to the Stormcloaks! All I have to say, although I did

Spoiler:

kill Titus II too, before I destroyed the Brotherhood

(DB spoiler)

[NordicMarksman]

Stormcloaks. The Legion are corrupt and basically a puppet to the Thalmor, who I hate badly. Sure, The Stormcloaks are somewhat racist, and a little stubborn at times, but look at the Legion. They took away the worship of the CREATOR of their Empire, just so the Emperor wouldnt lose his place. They should of fought, even if they lost. They are corrupt, no question about it. Not to mention they try to kill you, for no apparent reason. Though not to say the 'Cloaks are perfect. In my opinion, they should sign a a treaty, and team up to face the Dominion as one and defeat them, then they should ask the People of Skyrim who they want to rule.

[OblivionDuruza]

Um, Talos isn't a Nordic god though Ysmir is. Talos is an Imperial Deity, and as such, he is not a true Nordic God at all. All this "We created the Empire and now you're taking away our God" mumbo jumbo is unfounded because Tiber Septim created the Empire, and Talos was never a member of the Nordic Pantheon, Ysmir was.

[NordicMarksman]

Uhh Tiber Septim is also known as Ysmir and was made the Divine Talos' heres the link
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim

[OblivionDuruza]

But Ysmir is not Talos: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gods

Even though Talos gets all the credit, no reason to forget Ysmir

[NordicMarksman]

Many Nordic people have the name Ysmir, not just Ysmir Wulfharth. Tiber Septim had Nordic descent. Sure, he is not a true Nord god, but he is a Divine, which has some different classification than just a god

[FrostyInferno016]

But Ysmir is not Talos: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gods

Even though Talos gets all the credit, no reason to forget Ysmir

This is only if you pay credence to the Arcturian Heresy, which most don't. Talos is the name accepted to recognize both his divinity and his Atmoran heritage. Ysmir is recognized as a separate entity, having wandered Tamriel long before Talos even existed.