Which race has the most military/political power?

[FrostyInferno016]

the Hist* (I take offense since almost every character I made was Argonian ) But this is something I wanted to know too. You'd think that practically taking out one of the most resistant and strong races (Dunmer) would make you a power house. Plus I can see a Beast race uprising against all of the Mer/Men, that IMO would be a sick DLC.

The Argonians have always been called great guerrilla fighters, I'd like to see how this is done in the next game.

Blame auto-correct. I was using my "smart" phone.

[OblivionDuruza]

I don't see how Skyrim and Hammerfell are more powerful than the Dominion or the Empire. Hammerfell is divided as is Skyrim, even if a Civil War were to 'unify' either State, not only would such a war have a dear cost to society, but it would leave rifts unresolved and dormant. Look at the quest in Skyrim, In My Time Of Need, no matter which side is telling the truth (because it is designed to be impossible to tell) the quest is a window into the tension in Hammerfell. They may have fought off the Thalmor, with the aid of the Legion and the element of surprise I might add, but can they really stop the infighting that has plagued the Province for centuries? Likewise, Skyrim is no more unified if either side wins the War. The Empire will never be able to remove all the 'True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim' and the Stromcloaks will not be able to remove all those who wish to see Skyrim open for all peoples, not just 'True Nords'.

Honestly, the power in Tamriel will not be found in one single nation, particularly not one so divided, but in a Union of Nations, in a common understanding. As such, both the Dominion and the Empire would appear to be much more powerful than either Hammerfell or Skyrim. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that this is not the case.

[Wolfie]

Honestly, the power in Tamriel will not be found in one single nation, particularly not one so divided, but in a Union of Nations, in a common understanding. As such, both the Dominion and the Empire would appear to be much more powerful than either Hammerfell or Skyrim. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that this is not the case. [/color]

the fact redgaurds beat thalmor, and the stormcloaks can even compeat witht he Empire shows that neither is all that powerful.

[OblivionDuruza]

But the point is not that the Thalmor are all powerful, or that the Empire is all powerful. My point is that one Nation is not more powerful than a union of Nations, particularly not such a divided Nation.

Okay so Hammerfell defeated the Thalmor. However, do you overlook the fact that this occurred due to the decision of the Legion Commander to disobey orders and leave as many Legionaries as he could behind, catching the Thalmor off guard and weakening their force? Do we overlook the fact that the Empire defeated the Thalmor at the Battle of the Red Ring. Hammerfell could not have won without the Empire.

Conversely, look at Skyrim. Ulfric was captured, the War was over. However, the Blades had reason to believe that the Thalmor were meddling in the Civil War, preventing either side from clear victory, aiding each side as it saw fit in order to prolong the conflict. These fears proved to be true. Could the Stormcloaks really have defeated the Empire without the intervention of the Thalmor, the Dragonborn and Alduin?

And what's more, could either Hammerfell or Skyrim actually muster a force to attack the Empire or Thalmor and win? I wouldn't be so sure.

[Will Zurmacht]

Without more up to date information, it would be hard to speak confidently about the military situation Tamriel-wide.

Vis a vis Skyrim, though, the Thalmor could be cleverly positioned for a surprise attack into the northwestern part of the province. With their strong foothold near the northern beaches (Northwatch Keep and the fortified Thalmor Embassy), it would be possible for a fleet to swing around High Rock, make landfall, and push toward a Civil War-weakened Solitude before Legion/Stormcloak forces scattered throughout the province could react.

On the political front, the Thalmor seem to be doing everything right, and the Empire everything wrong. The Thalmor acquired power and influence in Summerset, Valenwood and Elsweyr through diplomacy and espionage. The Empire meanwhile lost Hammerfell and Skyrim through failures of diplomacy (Ulfric and his hold had already been granted religious freedom, but he launched a rebellion anyway). Hammerfell apparently remains estranged from the Empire 20 years after the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai. Argonia remains aloof. It's just a terrible record for the Empire, but, as so often happens, political weakness stems from military weakness. If the Legion puts in a good showing in Skyrim and perhaps another theater (Morrowind?), I think it would go a long way toward reassuring wavering Hammerfellians, and persuading the fickle Khajiit that the Empire is the power to side with again.

[Da_BossMaN69]

I still want to see BlackMarsh as powerful Wild card, the Argonians barely get a mention politically sides for slavery.

[FrostyInferno016]

Militarily, it's a tie between a united Skyrim and a united Hammerfell. Diplomatically, it's definitely Cyrodiil.

I don't see how Skyrim and Hammerfell are more powerful than the Dominion or the Empire. Hammerfell is divided as is Skyrim, even if a Civil War were to 'unify' either State, not only would such a war have a dear cost to society, but it would leave rifts unresolved and dormant. Look at the quest in Skyrim, In My Time Of Need, no matter which side is telling the truth (because it is designed to be impossible to tell) the quest is a window into the tension in Hammerfell. They may have fought off the Thalmor, with the aid of the Legion and the element of surprise I might add, but can they really stop the infighting that has plagued the Province for centuries? Likewise, Skyrim is no more unified if either side wins the War. The Empire will never be able to remove all the 'True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim' and the Stromcloaks will not be able to remove all those who wish to see Skyrim open for all peoples, not just 'True Nords'.

Honestly, the power in Tamriel will not be found in one single nation, particularly not one so divided, but in a Union of Nations, in a common understanding. As such, both the Dominion and the Empire would appear to be much more powerful than either Hammerfell or Skyrim. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that this is not the case.

Read the whole post next time; I highlighted it all three ways for ya

Anyway, how is it that you are going to deny that Hammerfell and Skyrim are the two strongest peoples from a pure a military perspective? Talos would never have conquered Tamriel without the Nords in his legions, and he couldn't set foot inside Hammerfell until the Forebears LET him in.

And there's tension in every province, at some level, and there is always a struggle for power amongst the kingdoms/holds/cities/etc..so what's your point?

[OblivionDuruza]

I read the post, and what I'm saying is, neither is United, far from it. What makes you so sure that either will be able to unite and solve age old differences that have caused conflict and tension for centuries? What's more, what makes you so sure that either will, while the Thalmor and Empire will not? That's what I'd like to know.

[Wispy]

Mercer Frey. Mercer Frey conquers all. 'There's a trick to these old wars'.

[FrostyInferno016]

I read the post, and what I'm saying is, neither is United, far from it. What makes you so sure that either will be able to unite and solve age old differences that have caused conflict and tension for centuries? What's more, what makes you so sure that either will, while the Thalmor and Empire will not? That's what I'd like to know.

Hammerfells fissures were mended when the Crowns and Forebears worked together to push the Thalmor out. And either way you look at Skyrim, it'll be united. Slightly weakened, but united.

[OblivionDuruza]

That's not entirely true, as evidenced by the quest I pointed out in the above post, Hammerfell is far from united, either way you look at it. As for Skyrim, not true either. If the Empire and it's allies win, Stormcloak supporters like Vignar Grey-Mane are still allowed to remain, and are likely to continue to oppose the Empire. If the Stormcloaks win, then not only do all non-Nords in Skyrim pose a problem, but people like Brunwulf Free-Winter remain to spread the word that Ulfric is letting non-Nords die at the hands of bandits, and give out quests to adventuring Dovakiin to help end the attacks.

Winning a war does not instantly make the problems go away.

[FrostyInferno016]

...that quest involves tracking down one girl who let the Thalmor into a city during the war. The "resistance" mentioned going on in Hammerfell is so ambiguous that you can attribute it to anything.
And as far as the situation in Skyrim, you're just grasping at straws now... Vignar and co. only whine a little if they lose..but they generally accept it. And the Stormcloaks may say xenophobic things every now and again, but they don't oust anyone not Nord (unless they are or kin with those who opposed them), so that likely would be a nonsequetor.

Im not budging on this one. Not even a little bit.

[OblivionDuruza]

I am far from grasping at straws, far from it, I'm looking at the only facts we have. One immediate example of tension in Skyrim is the very situation in the Gray Quarter you highlight yourself. On one hand, Ulfric is likley to act against the Dunmer, at the insistence of his followers. On the other hand, you have Dunmer so enraged that they threaten retaliation and uprising (as the author of The Dunmer of Skyrim makes very clear).

What's more, it's clear that winning the war wont end the disunity, even if the Grey-Manes do not openly attack the Empire, or Free-Winter does not openly challenge Ulfric, etc. the situation is far from 'unified'. What happens when the Grey-Manes refuse to lend their support to the defence of Whiterun from the Thalmor, as they did at the Battle of Whiterun against the Stromcloaks? What happens when Brunwulf gives aid to the Dunmer in opposition of Ulfric's command?

As for Hammerfell, the situation is a window into two possible realities. No matter which side is telling the truth, Hammerfell is divided in some way, pivoting on the Houses of Hammerfell, with the worst case being that the Houses are at each other's throats, with the best case being that some in Hammerfell wish to undermine the Houses.

I'm not convinced at all that any group is free of problems, or is lose to unification, but at least we know, that the Thalmor and the Argonians are tearing themselves apart.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

The races with the biggest wild card are the ones that haven't been seen or heard from in ages but could possibly suddenly reappear and wreak havoc - Akavir, Pyandonea, Thras, etc.

Never underestimate or overlook the element of surprise. The wake of a bloody civil war and the devastation caused by Alduin would be the critical moment for an invasion force from foreign soil.

Remember that the expansions in these games seem to follow a common thread - Morrowind was essentially about godkilling and breaking cycles. This continued in Tribunal and Bloodmoon. Oblivion was about Daedra and Daedra realms. KOTN and Shivering Isles continued this. Skyrim is about fighting dragons. Alduin is dead..Tosh Raka eyes Tamriel, immortal, hungry and ambitious. Best possible expansion IMO. They might not go that route but I'd love it.

[Biggsydaboss]

Pilaf you've got a very sound argument for what could be the major expansion. As for anyone who says that it sounds too ambitious, just point Shivering Isles out to them.

[SilentPsycho]

What happens when the Grey-Manes refuse to lend their support to the defence of Whiterun from the Thalmor, as they did at the Battle of Whiterun against the Stromcloaks?

The Grey-manes refused in the case of the Stormcloak attack because they believed and supported the Stormcloaks. I don't really think that they would ever be Thalmor-supporters...

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Most people aren't Thalmor supporters. Even their closest allies were essentially coerced into the Dominion. The Khajiit and Bosmer fear and loathe them more than respect them. The Dominion has never been a good thing for the majority of Bosmer tribes. The super wealthy, Ayleid remnant bloodlines like the Camorans have always been big Thalmor supporters, but the average Bosmer is slaughtered or essentially enslaved. There's even a significant portion of Altmer population who don't care for their goals or methods. And they're stretched very thin at this point. A few critical rebellions on their home fronts could cause a collapse or a reshuffling of power.

[Da_BossMaN69]

i'm waiting to see and hoping for an Argonian/Khajiit allaince that will drive the Thalmor back to Summerset and the result is you get join that war and support either side.

[DorostheConqueror]

i'm waiting to see and hoping for an Argonian/Khajiit allaince that will drive the Thalmor back to Summerset and the result is you get join that war and support either side.

That's what my character was doing prior to Skyrim. He spent quite some time in Elsweyr as a freelance assassin, helping anti-Thalmor Khajiit patriots fight a counter-insurgency against Thalmor agents. He fled back to his family's ancestral homeland of Skyrim in order to lay low after a particularly high profile strike just across the border of Valenwood.

I'd totally like to see Free Argonian/ Khajiit quests later on, as DLC or whatever. After all, once the Nords of Skyrim are done ousting the Elves and their Imperial allies, they'll need to support their foreign brothers in arms against the pointy-eared menace!

[Crepe the Ashlander]

I know this is very random, but, what is the current situation in High Rock? They are relatively untouched by the Aldmeri, and the unified power of the Breton city-states could help a lot against the Aldmeri, or even shift the state of power.

[DorostheConqueror]

From what I gather, they're still part of the Empire, in much the same position as Skyrim... minus the hope of freedom. Hammerfell has given them a buffer against the Aldmeri, but for how long?

[JoeyDestructo]

the Sload......

brb destroying half of tamriel's population....easily

[Crepe the Ashlander]

I think, if maybe all of the High-Rock states such as Daggerfalls, Sentinel, Orsinium etc. actually bothered to form an alliance with each other (and I mean a proper alliance not a little Empire overlord to keep them *working together*), and the Empire got in the good books of Hammerfell, the Empire could easily make a come-back against the Aldmeri. For example, The Cyrodillic Legions and militia could swing round the Niben and push their ways into the Khajiti vassal states, while doing this they could easily gain the favour of the Argonians, so they may also get aid from some Argonian guerilla fighters although this is unlikely. While doing this it is likely the Thalmor will push into the Gold Coast/Anvil region, and push towards Hammerfell and High Rock (just to make sure a front should be made up at Skingrad, made up of hardy Nord and Orc warriors, to hold back the tide). To pull the Aldmeri bluff when they go into Hammerfell, have them ambushed by the Breton Mages assisting the Alik'r Warriors and Nomadic Redguard warriors, thus the Redguard could harry the Aldmeri into the fire from the mages. While this happens to stop the majority of reiforcements coming from the Summerset Isle, the joint-Empire navies (made up mostly of the impressive Redguard corsairs) should harry/disperse most of the boat convoys coming from the Summerset Isle to Valenwood/Gold Coast, and as most of us know, Elves aren't too good as sailor, this could prove a major setback to the Aldmeri forces.

Damn I should be an Imperial Tactician.

[Gallus]

Khajiits.

Because they have tiger's blood.

[Talamare]

From what I gather, they're still part of the Empire, in much the same position as Skyrim... minus the hope of freedom. Hammerfell has given them a buffer against the Aldmeri, but for how long?

Hope of Freedom?
The majority of Emperors have been Bretons!

High Rock = Upper Class of the Empire, a political hub!

Bretons control Imperials!