To kill or not to kill (MQ spoilers!!)

[Wolfie]

Anyone rational enough to see that the blades have twisted ideals and that the Greybeards are wise will opt not to kill Paarthurnax.

How are the gray beards wise? they WANT the world to end.

He and the Greybeards were the greatest help. What did Esbern and Delphine do? Delphine did nothing and Esbern helped you find and elder scroll that you could have found anyway.

you could of done evreything with out the gray bears when you put it that way. and the blades did help, it depends who you pick to go to.

The blades cling onto a purpose they no longer have. They are pointless.

Really cuase their pouopors is to kill dragons same as the dragon born.
Who are you to say what their purpose is?
dont they get a say in it?

[MARS]

Anyone rational enough to see that the blades have twisted ideals and that the Greybeards are wise will opt not to kill Paarthurnax.

How are the gray beards wise? they WANT the world to end.

They want nothing. I quote:
"If the world is to end, let it end." It was not to end, because the Dovahkiin prevented the end.

He and the Greybeards were the greatest help. What did Esbern and Delphine do? Delphine did nothing and Esbern helped you find and elder scroll that you could have found anyway.

you could of done evreything with out the gray bears when you put it that way. and the blades did help, it depends who you pick to go to.
[/quote]
How, exactly? The Greybeards tought the Dovahkiin the way of the voice, giving him much of their wisdom. Words of power that the Dovahkiin could not have learned from word walls.

The blades cling onto a purpose they no longer have. They are pointless.

Really cuase their pouopors is to kill dragons same as the dragon born.
Who are you to say what their purpose is?
dont they get a say in it?[/quote]
True, they have the same purpose of the Dovahkiin. But the Dovahkiin is much more efficient.

[apploud]

dose that excuse it? should a man who gose on a killing spree in USA then gose hide where none can find him, makes a group that really dose nothing, they dont really do much.
Would you want him to walk free?
Just becuse he was told he had to do it then relized it was wrong?
or so he says.

Its a being that was designed to dominate. Would you go out and kill a bear because it hunted down and ate a doe? You can't blame Paarthurnax for doing as the Gods intended, But you can credit him for turning against that nature when he realizes it's wrong.

Working with someoen dose not mean you forgive them, proof? Ulfric and the empire to stop Aduin.

Ulfric and the empire don't work together to stop Alduin, they simply stop killing each other for a while. And when all is said and done they'll go back to killing each other. When Alduin was defeated the first time Paarthurnaxs existence would have been known, and yet the blades (Akiviri) didn't kill him. Paarthurnax did terrible things to be sure, But the existence of Man and mer from the time Alduin is stopped the first time until time immemorial after he was finally vanquished is because of him. Do people who are only alive because of him have a right to condemn him for past wrongs? No. Do they have a right to hate/despise him? They most certainly can, not because he deserves it but simply because they're to petty to see goodness behind inconsequential acts of evil.

[Wolfie]

They want nothing. I quote:
"If the world is to end, let it end." It was not to end, because the Dovahkiin prevented the end.

They where not going to help you in till their leader stepped in, that tells me something right there.
They did want something. Not to get involved.

How, exactly? The Greybeards tought the Dovahkiin the way of the voice, giving him much of their wisdom.

They taught you one word you alredy know part. and the speed burst, oh ad clear skies, while game wise, you as a gamer could not find the worlds, we know they must be some where writing down, like the others lore wise.
and idk bout you but I shouted before I met them, if i went along my way i could unlock all shouts but the ones they teach you, which relsitcvly in a real world, he could still learn somewhere…
Your whole point was that you did not need the blades but did you need the gray beards?
I don’t think so

True, they have the same purpose of the Dovahkiin. But the Dovahkiin is much more efficient.

Agreed, but dose that make their cause any les worthy?

Its a being that was designed to dominate. Would you go out and kill a bear because it hunted down and ate a doe? You can't blame Paarthurnax for doing as the Gods intended, But you can credit him for turning against that nature when he realizes it's wrong.

Here is the problem here, the fact he admits it wrongs proves he could of gone away but did not, its not like he maicly got hit and one day could defy, it took

and a bear comapred to a doe?
if the doe or relative creature could kill him? then yes.
Would not say right, cause its not that easy but its not wrong weither

Ulfric and the empire don't work together to stop Alduin, they simply stop killing each other for a while. And when all is said and done they'll go back to killing each other.

They stoped killing so you can defeat Aduin, thats working together.

When Alduin was defeated the first time Paarthurnaxs existence would have been known, and yet the blades (Akiviri) didn't kill him.

Yeah becuse its not like they missed any other dragoons, and one person dose not mean evrey one.
plus remember those that where there where either
A. dead
B. not at the throat of the world where he resided sicne then

Paarthurnax did terrible things to be sure, But the existence of Man and mer from the time Alduin is stopped the first time until time immemorial after he was finally vanquished is because of him. Do people who are only alive because of him have a right to condemn him for past wrongs? No. Do they have a right to hate/despise him? They most certainly can, not because he deserves it but simply because they're to petty to see goodness behind inconsequential acts of evil.

So your saying that killing so many is inconsequential acts of evil?
and no, man and mer lived just fine durinng that time, yes it sucked but they where very much alive.
and he rebeled, yet he did not fight aduin, which shows to me he never saved themf or Aduin
the nords did that.
in fact if it was not for the Noirds going aginst his word what would of happened?

[MARS]

They want nothing. I quote:
"If the world is to end, let it end." It was not to end, because the Dovahkiin prevented the end.

They where not going to help you in till their leader stepped in, that tells me something right there.
They did want something. Not to get involved.

Everyone makes mistakes. They corrected theirs and they were glad they did.
You also forget why they refused to help at first. It was because of Dragonrend. That is an entirely different story.

How, exactly? The Greybeards tought the Dovahkiin the way of the voice, giving him much of their wisdom.

They taught you one word you alredy know part. and the speed burst, oh ad clear skies, while game wise, you as a gamer could not find the worlds, we know they must be some where writing down, like the others lore wise.
and idk bout you but I shouted before I met them, if i went along my way i could unlock all shouts but the ones they teach you, which relsitcvly in a real world, he could still learn somewhere…
Your whole point was that you did not need the blades but did you need the gray beards?
I don’t think so
[/quote]
Who told was guiding you the whole time? Paarthurnax. Without him, nothing would have been possible. The Dovahkiin couldn't have stopped Alduin without his help. There was more to it than just shouting.

True, they have the same purpose of the Dovahkiin. But the Dovahkiin is much more efficient.

Agreed, but dose that make their cause any les worthy?
[/quote]
I was just trying to cover up for my mistake a bit. Tiny bit of pride there.

Its a being that was designed to dominate. Would you go out and kill a bear because it hunted down and ate a doe? You can't blame Paarthurnax for doing as the Gods intended, But you can credit him for turning against that nature when he realizes it's wrong.

Here is the problem here, the fact he admits it wrongs proves he could of gone away but did not, its not like he maicly got hit and one day could defy, it took

and a bear comapred to a doe?
if the doe or relative creature could kill him? then yes.
Would not say right, cause its not that easy but its not wrong weither

It took him centuries of meditation to get away from it. He could not do it while Alduin was in power, because his mind was occupied with the tasks Alduin gave him.

Ulfric and the empire don't work together to stop Alduin, they simply stop killing each other for a while. And when all is said and done they'll go back to killing each other.

They stoped killing so you can defeat Aduin, thats working together.

That is not working together. The world was about to end and they still wanted to debate territory. That peace council made me furious. It was a perfect example of human irrationality.

When Alduin was defeated the first time Paarthurnaxs existence would have been known, and yet the blades (Akiviri) didn't kill him.

Yeah becuse its not like they missed any other dragoons, and one person dose not mean evrey one.[/quote]
I didn't understand what you said.

Paarthurnax did terrible things to be sure, But the existence of Man and mer from the time Alduin is stopped the first time until time immemorial after he was finally vanquished is because of him. Do people who are only alive because of him have a right to condemn him for past wrongs? No. Do they have a right to hate/despise him? They most certainly can, not because he deserves it but simply because they're to petty to see goodness behind inconsequential acts of evil.

So your saying that killing so many is inconsequential acts of evil?
and no, man and mer lived just fine durinng that time, yes it sucked but they where very much alive.
and he rebeled, yet he did not fight aduin, which shows to me he never saved themf or Aduin
the nords did that.
in fact if it was not for the Noirds going aginst his word what would of happened?[/quote]
[/quote]
I agree that Paarthurnax's actions were not inconsequential.
Re: the bolded line. Without him rebelling the nords could not have done anything. The final act has nothing to do with the act that enabled it all

[Wolfie]

Everyone makes mistakes. They corrected theirs and they were glad they did.

You also forget why they refused to help at first. It was because of Dragonrend. That is an entirely different story.

Ad the blades wanted you to get it, you dont see that a s a wee bit helpful?

Who told was guiding you the whole time? Paarthurnax. Without him, nothing would have been possible. The Dovahkiin couldn't have stopped Alduin without his help. There was more to it than just shouting.

Like?

It took him centuries of meditation to get away from it. He could not do it while Alduin was in power, because his mind was occupied with the tasks Alduin gave him.

So how did he help really?

That is not working together. The world was about to end and they still wanted to debate territory. That peace council made me furious. It was a perfect example of human irrationality.

Your right it is, but it also shwos they did put their things asided to agree on something the same that Paarthurnax aqnd the others could of had.

I didn't understand what you said.

he said since Paarthurnax is alive its proff they forgave him, which is untrue as
A. he stayed up there after words
B.

I agree that Paarthurnax's actions were not inconsequential.
Re: the bolded line. Without him rebelling the nords could not have done anything.

How so? what did Paarthurnax do that made it where they could?

The final act has nothing to do with the act that enabled it all

what was this act? it was my understand the rebels started before Paarthurnax turned.

[apploud]

Alduin is the world-eater. He was attempting to destroy Man and Mer, Paarthurnax is the only reason he didn't succeed.

Here is the problem here, the fact he admits it wrongs proves he could of gone away but did not, its not like he maicly got hit and one day could defy, it took

and a bear comapred to a doe?
if the doe or relative creature could kill him? then yes.
Would not say right, cause its not that easy but its not wrong weither

Paarthurnax came to realize it was wrong as he was doing it and put an end to it. There wasn't some drastic change, it was a simple matter of doing as he was created to do and seeing evil in the actions until he could no longer side with Alduin. And did he then just stop helping? Go and hide? No. He stayed and fought and put a stop to Alduins reign of terror.

They stoped killing so you can defeat Aduin, thats working together.

Signing a temporary treaty is not working together. They stopped Hostilities because the Dragon-Born and Greybeards demanded it from them to stop a threat to life as a whole.

Yeah becuse its not like they missed any other dragoons, and one person dose not mean evrey one.
plus remember those that where there where either
A. dead
B. not at the throat of the world where he resided sicne then

As far as I understand they missed two total. Paarthurnax and one whose name I don't know that hid in Vvardenfell. I Can't say for certain that Paarthurnaxs existence was was well know, and neither can you say that it wasn't. But regardless of Knowledge of his existence, the blades don't have a right to insist he dies.

So your saying that killing so many is inconsequential acts of evil?
and no, man and mer lived just fine durinng that time, yes it sucked but they where very much alive.
and he rebeled, yet he did not fight aduin, which shows to me he never saved themf or Aduin
the nords did that.
in fact if it was not for the Noirds going aginst his word what would of happened?

Dominating and obeying as his God given nature (The same one(s) that are revered in current times) does not make Paarthurnax evil. If anythin it makes Akatosh evil. The things Paarthurnax did as his own being were nothing but beneficial to mankind.

Alduin is the world-eater. He was attempting to destroy Man and Mer, Paarthurnax is the only reason he didn't succeed. Without use of the Thu'um Alduin would have been unstoppable by the nords. And who was it that taught them to use the Thu'um?

And I'm not sure I understand, The nords going against whose word? And what exactly did they go against?

[MARS]

What Paarthurnax did, Wolfie, was:
1) help you summon Alduin the first time
2) help you travel to Sovngarde

[Wolfie]

Alduin is the world-eater. He was attempting to destroy Man and Mer, Paarthurnax is the only reason he didn't succeed.

He did never fought the guy, was not even the one that taught them the shout or the scroll.

so what did he do that let them win?

Paarthurnax came to realize it was wrong as he was doing it and put an end to it. There wasn't some drastic change, it was a simple matter of doing as he was created to do and seeing evil in the actions until he could no longer side with Alduin. And did he then just stop helping? Go and hide? No. He stayed and fought and put a stop to Alduins reign of terror.

We have no idea what he did besides he never touched Aduin

Signing a temporary treaty is not working together.

workign together means doings things to achive a goal they did

They stopped Hostilities because the Dragon-Born and Greybeards demanded it from them to stop a threat to life as a whole.

and you dont think the same can be said of ]Paarthurnax and the heros? that they worked together cause they had to?

As far as I understand they missed two total. Paarthurnax and one whose name I don't know that hid in Vvardenfell. I Can't say for certain that Paarthurnaxs existence was was well know, and neither can you say that it wasn't.

there where many dragons throuh out histroy that where "missed"
go read lore on dragonlings and dragons in genreal.
and again he aperaed at throat of the world after the final battle and stayed there, there is nothing to say anyone knew where he was.

just becuse he was knowi dose not mean they did not try to find him.

But regardless of Knowledge of his existence, the blades don't have a right to insist he dies

.
Really? so no one can call him on his crimes cause he did what?
fought aduin? no.
in the rebeling? yes but how? what did he really do? they never say beside the facvt that he left, and knowing he never fought or touched Aduin
and the rebel was in full afect before he turned, and the rebelign won using their own idea.

so he did NOTHING to Worthy at all, not in till skyrim's time, and even then dose it make up for evreything?.

sure he may of tuaht them the voice but thats not what stoped aduin.

Dominating and obeying as his God given nature (The same one(s) that are revered in current times) does not make Paarthurnax evil.

And he claims its their nature, just like we huma claims its our nature, if true are we not to be heled for our claims? and if its not, then do we really know if it is?
and even then just becuse its his nature dose not mean it excusrs what he did.

its in our nature to mate with females, in fact, almost at nay means neccseary dose that mean rape is ok?
thre is nothing in our nature for asking.

no of course not, he is a being with a mind of his own , he is on level with the humannoids, he is not just another bear or tigaer.

If anythin it makes Akatosh evil.

Uh huh, I wonder if Akatosh rally did this, cause evreything eles we know about him is good, why would there be one bad thing?
maybe becuse its untrue?

The things Paarthurnax did as his own being were nothing but beneficial to mankind

And what was this?

he taught them the shouts? okay good lesson but thats not how Aduin was stoped.
he rebeled aginst him? all we heard so far is he taught them shouts and thats it. he never fought aduin we know this, and the rebbels stoped them their own way
nothing to do with him turning.

the gray bears say he was needed to stop aduin but how? they used the scrolls something he did not want them to do, to beat him

how was he neeeded for that?

Alduin is the world-eater. He was attempting to destroy Man and Mer, Paarthurnax is the only reason he didn't succeed. Without use of the Thu'um Alduin would have been unstoppable by the nords. And who was it that taught them to use the Thu'um?

really? so which shout let them beat him? none, when did he stop aduin? never. they used the scroll, none of the shouts beat them
and even the one shout they used was one they made.

The rebel used their own plan out side of him to beat aduin.

And I'm not sure I understand, The nords going against whose word? And what exactly did they go against?

When they used the scrolls, he did not want them to, he told them not to.

[Yomnom]

I'd never think about killing Paarthurnax. He's no longer evil, and to be quite honest he's the only character in the main quest who actually felt like a friend to me.
And I don't really like Delphine or Esbern.

[Sansreal]

And who was it that taught them to use the Thu'um?

Kynareth. Kynareth taught man to Shout as dragons do. Ever read those little stones on the way up the Seven-Thousand Steps?

I never did understand what it was that Paarthurnax did for the rebellion. Kynareth taught men to Shout, and man created the Dragonrend shout on their own. Paarthurnax could not have helped in its creation for the very same reason that it cannot be known to him: its meaning is contrary to his very nature. The only reason there is to think Paarthurnax had anything to do with it is that Al-duin curses him when he encounters Dragonrend, and that may have just been a mistake on Al-duin's part.

As for Paarthurnax doing a convenient heel-turn during the War, that was for self-profit. If he did do anything to help the Rebellion, it was part of a gambit with him becoming the new Dragon Lord as the end-game. A gambit that turned out quite well if you don't kill him.

The reason that the early Blades never killed Paarthurnax, even though he was at the VERY TOP of their hit-list as an evil second only to Al-duin, himself, was because the Greybeards protected him, even way back then. There's a little book on it in Sky Haven Temple.

[Berzerker]

Paarthurnax says that he followed Alduin because he was supposed to. Dragons were made by the Gods to dominate and rule with Alduin ruling the dragons. But they obviously aren't unthinking beasts and Paarthurnax saw that what they were doing was wrong and did EVERYTHING in his power to put an end to it. He even goes out to force the remaining Dragons to adhere to The Way of the Voice or (I would assume) be destroyed.

dose that excuse it? should a man who gose on a killing spree in USA then gose hide where none can find him, makes a group that really dose nothing, they dont really do much.
Would you want him to walk free?
Just becuse he was told he had to do it then relized it was wrong?
or so he says.

It's not Justice that "The Blades" are wanting. They want a bitter rage based on half of a story to be vented against a Dragon that has done them no harm, and whom their Ancestors obviously forgave so long ago when the initial deeds actually mattered

Working with someoen dose not mean you forgive them, proof? Ulfric and the empire to stop Aduin.

I hate to be that guy but is English you're native language?Cause you're posts are really hard to understand some times.

[Wolfie]

Thats one of my more easy to read post TBH, and yes, its my first languge, dont mean I'm any good at it.


Anyways, as far as I can tell
A. he did not fight Aduin
B. he did not give them the idea that let them stop him
C. he may or may not taught them to shout
D. they where fighting long before he joined them

So as far as I can tell, he was not needed, he did not stop Aduin so what did he do? we have nothing that states what he did besides the gray beards who say with out him they could not stop aduin, which is untrue, as he did not want them to use the scroll anyway

[azabranth]

Pathurnax, directs you in finding dragonwrend he deserves to live as far as am concerned all the blades did was hide behind the dragonborn or inside some tavern or temple or even in sewers like rats. While pathurnax went toe to toe with alduin at throat of the world and during the original nord rebelion. The blades ended for me with Martin and jauffre.

[Wolfie]

Pathurnax, directs you in finding dragonwrend he deserves to live as far as am concerned all the blades did was hide behind the dragonborn or inside some tavern or temple or even in sewers like rats. While pathurnax went toe to toe with alduin at throat of the world and during the original nord rebelion. The blades ended for me with Martin and jauffre.

He did not fight Aduin durring the Rebelion.

[Bhanqwa]

So I bring back this dragonstone, and find that the one who gave the location could have easily aquired the stone herself long before I knew of its existence.
Way to waste time woman, who looks and sounds suspiciously like a tavern-owner I met in Riverwood.
Immediately after delivering the stone I'm called on to defeat a dragon, I succeed and the greybeards summon me.
Word spreads fast, so Delphine, being an agent and all, has to know about this.
...
So instead of finding the horn of Jurgen Windcaller, I find this note telling me I have to go somewhere else first and ask for an attic room.
I arrive at the Sleeping Giant Inn, which clearly only has one level, have to embarrass myself by asking for an attic room, and then find myself partaking in a rather frustrating conversation with Delphine.
She says: "I allready gave you the horn, I'm actually trying to help you." erm, no no no, forcing me to chase after this horn for longer is the opposite of helping me woman.
She needed to find out if I could be trusted and wasn't some Thalmor plant, even though she'd allready seen me delivering the dragonstone.
Then she tells me the Thalmor stand to gain from the dragons, ah... you know I allready killed a dragon, that's another reason for me to find you stupid woman.
I ask why I should trust her, at which she replies: "If you didn't trust me you were a fool to come here." ... What?! So my mistrust for someone I have almost no intell on is foolishness, but her mistrust after all I've allready accomplished makes perfect sense?
...
Sorry Esbern you seem like a cool guy, but you're still allied with Delphine.
At least Paarthunax knew when to switch sides.

[NLN]

...
I ask why I should trust her, at which she replies: "If you didn't trust me you were a fool to come here." ... What?! So my mistrust for someone I have almost no intell on is foolishness, but her mistrust after all I've allready accomplished makes perfect sense?

I was severely missing the option to reply "But what makes you think you'll be able to walk away alive if I decide I don't trust you?"

Don't tell me she knows she's an essential character >____<

[Wolfie]

Well she is right, if you dont trust her then why go? if you dont trust her it could be a trap then, she also gace you the horn so why not trust her?
as you've seen her help with the draon stone, she told you where it was

and no the mistrust for her is not the problem, the mistrust and showing up is, which is a VERY commmon speach in things "then why did you come here if you did not trust me"

jeez I honestly think pepole are trying TO hard to hate thing in Skyrim

[NLN]

Well she is right, if you dont trust her then why go? if you dont trust her it could be a trap then, she also gace you the horn so why not trust her?
as you've seen her help with the draon stone, she told you where it was

and no the mistrust for her is not the problem, the mistrust and showing up is, which is a VERY commmon speach in things "then why did you come here if you did not trust me"

jeez I honestly think pepole are trying TO hard to hate thing in Skyrim

Because I was sent to get the horn and it was not there, but I got a lead? For all I know, I could just go to that inn, ask for the room, kill whoever responds and go on my merry way with the horn. What I could not do was NOT go after the damn horn if I wanted to continue with the quest. Suppose someone knows about your top secret stuff and put obstacles in your way... you realize who they were, tell me, HOW many times in this game did you kill people like that? "go to this cave and get my sword/hat/lucky coin back, I dropped it around that area, waaaay back in the second era". You go there, find a bunch of bandits, kill them before you even bothered to find out if they took the item, because you're just impatient and they're just disposable, no? Then loot the corpses and often you don't even find the thing you were searching for, you have to go all the way to the back of the cave and find it in some remote chest. How is Delphine special in this?

Or let's go real life: you go to pick up a Very Important Package of Doom you got and you find it's not there, but there's a letter: Hey, I wanna help you with stuff you don't even know about yet, come to this town on the other side of the map and ask for movie tickets in this hospital! If you, for whatever reason are crazy enough to go (just as the Dovahkiin can't exactly send the police), and some random chick gave you your original package then declared that SEE, now you can trust me!, well... I wouldn't.

[I_am_one]

I couldn't have killed him. He's the one who helped send me back in time to learn how to make fighting dragons a lot easier. When you're a Nord warrior who only uses maces, forcing a dragon to land is very helpful. Killing him would be like killing someone who gave me a million dollars or something...

[Wolfie]

Because I was sent to get the horn and it was not there, but I got a lead? For all I know, I could just go to that inn, ask for the room, kill whoever responds and go on my merry way with the horn

Yes she took the Horn becuse she was unsure if you really where the Dragon born, its not like the dragon born is the ONLY one who can kill dragon.

What I could not do was NOT go after the damn horn if I wanted to continue with the quest. Suppose someone knows about your top secret stuff and put obstacles in your way... you realize who they were, tell me, HOW many times in this game did you kill people like that? "go to this cave and get my sword/hat/lucky coin back, I dropped it around that area, waaaay back in the second era". You go there, find a bunch of bandits, kill them before you even bothered to find out if they took the item, because you're just impatient and they're just disposable, no? Then loot the corpses and often you don't even find the thing you were searching for, you have to go all the way to the back of the cave and find it in some remote chest. How is Delphine special in this?

Well #1 the bandits are named and they atack you, she dose not, thats a good starting point
She took the Horn, but I think it was a smart move, she thgout at the time, that the Thalmor where behined it, you do NOT want them getting it do you?

Or let's go real life: you go to pick up a Very Important Package of Doom you got and you find it's not there, but there's a letter: Hey, I wanna help you with stuff you don't even know about yet, come to this town on the other side of the map and ask for movie tickets in this hospital! If you, for whatever reason are crazy enough to go (just as the Dovahkiin can't exactly send the police), and some random chick gave you your original package then declared that SEE, now you can trust me!, well... I wouldn't.

She took it to keep it safe so the Thalmor (who she thgout was behined it) would not get to it, then she gave it to you.

Yeah, I trust her a bit then

And yet you trust Grtay beards who wont let you see their leader in till your reddy, dont do any fighting with you, teach you things you can do by your self (learn words)
and even then the blades are the ones who first told me about the man shout, so with out them i would never know and even then, the gray bearfs did not want to give it to you

So guess what? gray bears? yeah they dont trust you either, after all they did they dont trust you either and they WANT the world to end.

Some can say they "just dont care" but IMO thats worse

[Da_BossMaN69]

Seriously I hate the Greybeards after they mentioned the World should takes its course and after they trashed the blades and told me not to act "rash".

Who do these guys think they are? They're a secluded group who believe mastering a weapon( yes the thu'um is a weapon don't tell me it's just the language because Paarthunax said the language many times to me and I wasn't greeted with a whirl-wind of pain) will bring "salvation"

Maybe if it was the real world where you practiced Buddhism of Christianity. But this is Nirn, your heaven requires heroic action and fighting to get to it, not standing around all day on your ass playing with a weapon you'll never use.

They say that the dragonborn should follow the "way of the Voice" and not practice it for evil (which in their definiton of fighting for selfish reasons), shows you their knowledge. You know what happened the last time some one did the exact opposite of what they said to do? Oh yeah he became a GOD, so unless the Grey beards and by some extension, Paarturnax is wiser than a God then by all means I'll listen to them. And on top of that established an Empire that was only defeated because it took a daedra lord's army to that, and even still it persisted.

Also you're the dragonborn, why should I listen to them when my loyalty is clearly to that of Talos (and the empire depending on how you interpret the war) Talos used and guided the blades, they worship me. The blades have always sought to do what Talos has wanted and as a dragon born you should follow your patron God. And while Delphine can be pushy at times, it's only because doing so is the opposite of what Talos would do, on top of that the Grey beards have no connection to you. They're enforcing another God's values, who by the way have totally misinterpreted he she gave the thu'um to be used a weapon to defeat the dragons, you think she gives if you kill a dragon? That's akatosh's business not her's.

Paarthurnax may have changed sides but if he's so dedicated to helping Men/Mer/etc and fighting to help save them, why is sitting on top of the world ignoring everything around him? If he's so loyal why doesn't he get up and help me slay the dragons and fight paarthurnax, better yet as my reason, I'm the dragon born. I'm eating their souls, he knows this and rather than kill them himself so he can save them from eternal damnation via myself, he simply ignores it and lets me claim as many of them as I want. So much for his dragon rehabilitation.

WHy? Because he's a coward, he always was, he only fought Alduin to help himself since he knew the mortals would win, now that Alduin has returned he's frightened and content to let the World end, rather than dying because he knows when Nirn is destroyed he won't be, so he'll just let everyone else die, along with his little band of sycophants.

It's a pretty good cover, but I'm the dragon lord, notice how eager he is to claim that title despite the fact it's clearly me, I had know trouble taming Alduin's new lieutenant. Why does he make it seem that taming the others will be hard, simple answer he wants power and he's blunt about he may even not know what he's doing is wrong but deep down, almost subconsciously he's still the same cruel [&@%!] he was during his reign.

[azabranth]

Kyne had help from paathurnax to teach humans the thuums lol if you had read the stones as u said u know that I quote "lunes with the help of paathurnax though men the voice" so ya derp lol

[azabranth]

Seriously I hate the Greybeards after they mentioned the World should takes its course and after they trashed the blades and told me not to act "rash".

Who do these guys think they are? They're a secluded group who believe mastering a weapon( yes the thu'um is a weapon don't tell me it's just the language because Paarthunax said the language many times to me and I wasn't greeted with a whirl-wind of pain) will bring "salvation"

Maybe if it was the real world where you practiced Buddhism of Christianity. But this is Nirn, your heaven requires heroic action and fighting to get to it, not standing around all day on your ass playing with a weapon you'll never use.

They say that the dragonborn should follow the "way of the Voice" and not practice it for evil (which in their definiton of fighting for selfish reasons), shows you their knowledge. You know what happened the last time some one did the exact opposite of what they said to do? Oh yeah he became a GOD, so unless the Grey beards and by some extension, Paarturnax is wiser than a God then by all means I'll listen to them. And on top of that established an Empire that was only defeated because it took a daedra lord's army to that, and even still it persisted.

Also you're the dragonborn, why should I listen to them when my loyalty is clearly to that of Talos (and the empire depending on how you interpret the war) Talos used and guided the blades, they worship me. The blades have always sought to do what Talos has wanted and as a dragon born you should follow your patron God. And while Delphine can be pushy at times, it's only because doing so is the opposite of what Talos would do, on top of that the Grey beards have no connection to you. They're enforcing another God's values, who by the way have totally misinterpreted he she gave the thu'um to be used a weapon to defeat the dragons, you think she gives if you kill a dragon? That's akatosh's business not her's.

Paarthurnax may have changed sides but if he's so dedicated to helping Men/Mer/etc and fighting to help save them, why is sitting on top of the world ignoring everything around him? If he's so loyal why doesn't he get up and help me slay the dragons and fight paarthurnax, better yet as my reason, I'm the dragon born. I'm eating their souls, he knows this and rather than kill them himself so he can save them from eternal damnation via myself, he simply ignores it and lets me claim as many of them as I want. So much for his dragon rehabilitation.

WHy? Because he's a coward, he always was, he only fought Alduin to help himself since he knew the mortals would win, now that Alduin has returned he's frightened and content to let the World end, rather than dying because he knows when Nirn is destroyed he won't be, so he'll just let everyone else die, along with his little band of sycophants.

It's a pretty good cover, but I'm the dragon lord, notice how eager he is to claim that title despite the fact it's clearly me, I had know trouble taming Alduin's new lieutenant. Why does he make it seem that taming the others will be hard, simple answer he wants power and he's blunt about he may even not know what he's doing is wrong but deep down, almost subconsciously he's still the same cruel [&@%!] he was during his reign.

Lol do you anything of the lore paathurnax does kill random dragons because he cant absorb theirs souls and thats the only way to permanently kill a dragon, notice helps you fight alduin at throat of the world, that shows me that regular divagations would be easy as cream for him, and the reason he waited on throat of the world is because that's where the time rift is. The location u need to go to to learn dragonwrend he stayed there cuz he knew its were alduin would go to stop the dragonborn. Stop spewing nonfacts based on irrational animosity

[azabranth]

Typing with my "smart" phone I think u can spot the typos thoh