Lack of 'hardcore' mode

[Lord Elvewyn]

Obsidian\Black Isle had a Heart of Fury mode in Icewind Dale II so it's in keeping with some of their past productions.

[Mattbott]

no, i think hardcore works well in fallout cos of the survivalist/scavenger theme of that game really goes well with it

so I completely agree that TES doesn't need it, you get the choice of fast travel, difficulty slider if you want pain, bonuses for being well rested, food that can be cooked and eaten for bonuses, so there's plenty in there if you want to roleplay hardcore style characters.. and when they crit you, you can end up getting eaten/flattened even with a third of your health left (which is pretty hardcore imo)

in fact i am thrilled that they have got rid of 'hardcore' features like repair and gone for a more accessible but deep experience

[DorostheConqueror]

Sure, Obsidian was responsible for Hardcore Mode, but can't Bethesda learn from the best? I mean, they tried (and mostly failed) to implement Fallout's VATS cine-kills; why not try and fail at making a Hardcore mode?

Seriously, Hardcore Mode was the best thing that ever happened to the Elder Fallout series. It was bloody brilliant, and when I realized just how brilliant, I wondered how I could ever go back to playing an immersive FPS-RPG without it. It's... tough. Very tough. I want my Hardcore, dammit!

Here's what I would do-

1. Hunger meter. Simple and to the point, eat once a day, or at least every couple days, to stay healthy. It'd work well with the intricately designed cooking system, which is currently pointless. Surely Bethesda would want their food crafting system to actually mean something, right?
2. Sleep meter. Nothing major, just sleep once every few days like in Fallout.
3. De-Call-of-Dutyize the health system. Auto-regen? Really, guys? Here, just take the whole Restoration school back; just give me some sandbags for cover and I'll be fine in a couple seconds anyway.

A Thirst meter would be nice, but since there's currently no drinkable Water in this game, you could just assume it's included with the Hunger meter.

[deadknight]

Well i dont think will be a great idea but as well i dont think will be a bad one too...But i dont think Bethesda will do something about it so its all to the mods...

A Thirst meter would be nice, but since there's currently no drinkable Water in this game, you could just assume it's included with the Hunger meter.

Well we can use Ale

[DorostheConqueror]

Well i dont think will be a great idea but as well i dont think will be a bad one too...But i dont think Bethesda will do something about it so its all to the mods...

A Thirst meter would be nice, but since there's currently no drinkable Water in this game, you could just assume it's included with the Hunger meter.

Well we can use Ale

Booze dehydrates you. I guess Nords are tough enough to live on mead, but all the soft outlanders would die if they had nothing to drink but alcohol!

[Feanor]

1. Hunger meter. Simple and to the point, eat once a day, or at least every couple days, to stay healthy. It'd work well with the intricately designed cooking system, which is currently pointless. Surely Bethesda would want their food crafting system to actually mean something, right?
2. Sleep meter. Nothing major, just sleep once every few days like in Fallout.
3. De-Call-of-Dutyize the health system. Auto-regen? Really, guys? Here, just take the whole Restoration school back; just give me some sandbags for cover and I'll be fine in a couple seconds anyway.

A Thirst meter would be nice, but since there's currently no drinkable Water in this game, you could just assume it's included with the Hunger meter.

Running draining fatigue (like in Morrowind) would be nice too.

[Mattbott]

Well i dont think will be a great idea but as well i dont think will be a bad one too...But i dont think Bethesda will do something about it so its all to the mods...

A Thirst meter would be nice, but since there's currently no drinkable Water in this game, you could just assume it's included with the Hunger meter.

Well we can use Ale

Booze dehydrates you. I guess Nords are tough enough to live on mead, but all the soft outlanders would die if they had nothing to drink but alcohol!

in the past workers have always lived on beer as the main drink during the working day - navvies (Irish navigational engineers, build the railroads in UK and Ireland) for example would have got through 9 - 10 pints per day .. even though alcohol dehydrates you, there's still enough water in beer to keep you going with no ill effects so long as you don't chug a lug too much

@Feanor fatigue drains in Skyrim as you sprint doesnt it?

i think the fact that there's a slow down in fatigue regen after you have drunk some booze is a nod to the effects of drink, imo TES is just moving away from the more mundane details which fallout excels at

[DorostheConqueror]

even though alcohol dehydrates you, there's still enough water in beer to keep you going with no ill effects so long as you don't chug a lug too much

Which is exactly what you'll be doing if all you have to drink is booze!

No, the only way a thirst meter would work is if they diversified the beverage choices, which will of course involve a lot of Effort, and therefor won't happen. Hunger and sleep meters, though, those could be implemented right now, with the game as is. So why don't they?

[n810]

Prety sure the last couple of TES games had Hunger/thirst/sleep mods made for them,
prety sure someone will make one for skyrim as well.

Ps. could probaly fix the weter issue with a refillable canteen, that you could use on rivers, lakes, wells, ect.

[Feanor]

@Feanor fatigue drains in Skyrim as you sprint doesnt it?

Sprinting is a different story, I was talking about running/jogging.

[metaphysician]

Um, that *is* sprinting. Or do you mean walking?

Anyway, I really fail to see the issue with the health regen. Even out of combat, its rather slow, and in combat, unless you have serious buffs, its not relevant. Yes, you *could* sit in place for a couple minutes after every fight for a "free" top up, but why *would* anyone when you can just use the basic healing spell for a quicker top up? Yes, health replenishes on its own, but the fact that it replenishes has no real relevance to actual gameplay.

[umber hulk]

no need for other meters, just have it all effect your stamina bar, if you are starved you lose a temprary chunk until you eat, if you are exhausted you lose another chunk until you sleep.

[Mattbott]

@Feanor fatigue drains in Skyrim as you sprint doesnt it?

Sprinting is a different story, I was talking about running/jogging.

well maybe in Skyrim land where a day is an hour and there are two moons, the gravity is so nice that unless you press the sprint button, you can 'jog' indefinitely if you're the Dovakhiin

for is it not said,

"and in the times where no dragons scourged the lands, then did the dragon born find useful employment as personal trainer for rich merchants needing a good cardio vascular workout"

[DorostheConqueror]

Um, that *is* sprinting. Or do you mean walking?

Anyway, I really fail to see the issue with the health regen. Even out of combat, its rather slow, and in combat, unless you have serious buffs, its not relevant. Yes, you *could* sit in place for a couple minutes after every fight for a "free" top up, but why *would* anyone when you can just use the basic healing spell for a quicker top up? Yes, health replenishes on its own, but the fact that it replenishes has no real relevance to actual gameplay.

Every time I take damage, my health refills within fifteen to twenty seconds. That's not a little thing, and that's very relevant to gameplay. Call me a traditionalist, but I miss the days when it'd take a full day of hard rest to cure 2d4 points of damage; back then, potions and healing and regen powers actually MEANT something.

I tell ya, I'm having more fun as a vampire during the day than I ever did otherwise.

[wolfiesmith]

even though alcohol dehydrates you, there's still enough water in beer to keep you going with no ill effects so long as you don't chug a lug too much

Which is exactly what you'll be doing if all you have to drink is booze!

No, the only way a thirst meter would work is if they diversified the beverage choices, which will of course involve a lot of Effort, and therefor won't happen. Hunger and sleep meters, though, those could be implemented right now, with the game as is. So why don't they?

Beer was what people drank. Small beer for women and children, which had a low alcohol content. The water from wells, rivers etc were too soiled and polluted for drinking 'neat' and it was thought the alcohol helped purify the water.

Brewers were seen much the same as farmers, food producers, rather than just makers of an alcohic drink.

[DorostheConqueror]

even though alcohol dehydrates you, there's still enough water in beer to keep you going with no ill effects so long as you don't chug a lug too much

Which is exactly what you'll be doing if all you have to drink is booze!

No, the only way a thirst meter would work is if they diversified the beverage choices, which will of course involve a lot of Effort, and therefor won't happen. Hunger and sleep meters, though, those could be implemented right now, with the game as is. So why don't they?

Beer was what people drank. Small beer for women and children, which had a low alcohol content. The water from wells, rivers etc were too soiled and polluted for drinking 'neat' and it was thought the alcohol helped purify the water.

Brewers were seen much the same as farmers, food producers, rather than just makers of an alcohic drink.

I'm sorry, I thought this was Skyrim, land of crystal alpine springs which flow from rocks a hundred meters above the aquifer, not 18th century Germany, land of intestinal parasites and the flux. My mistake!

If you really want to try and pigeonhole Tamriel into pre-industrial Earth patterns of development and consumption, then don't forget, ancient beer generally had a much smaller alcoholic content than the modern stuff we enjoy today. Is that really what you want to picture your Nord warrior downing right before he slays a dragon? Watery horker-pee? Black-Briar Lite (with Lime)? That would certainly explain why you can't get drunk off the stuff, but I say no. I refuse to accept that the Mead the Dovakhiin keeps by his bed is fit for general human consumption; where's the fun in that?

[metaphysician]

Um, that *is* sprinting. Or do you mean walking?

Anyway, I really fail to see the issue with the health regen. Even out of combat, its rather slow, and in combat, unless you have serious buffs, its not relevant. Yes, you *could* sit in place for a couple minutes after every fight for a "free" top up, but why *would* anyone when you can just use the basic healing spell for a quicker top up? Yes, health replenishes on its own, but the fact that it replenishes has no real relevance to actual gameplay.

Every time I take damage, my health refills within fifteen to twenty seconds. That's not a little thing, and that's very relevant to gameplay. Call me a traditionalist, but I miss the days when it'd take a full day of hard rest to cure 2d4 points of damage; back then, potions and healing and regen powers actually MEANT something.

I tell ya, I'm having more fun as a vampire during the day than I ever did otherwise.

Then you must have some kind of buffs on your character, because health doesn't regenerate anywhere near that fast naturally.

[DorostheConqueror]

Um, that *is* sprinting. Or do you mean walking?

Anyway, I really fail to see the issue with the health regen. Even out of combat, its rather slow, and in combat, unless you have serious buffs, its not relevant. Yes, you *could* sit in place for a couple minutes after every fight for a "free" top up, but why *would* anyone when you can just use the basic healing spell for a quicker top up? Yes, health replenishes on its own, but the fact that it replenishes has no real relevance to actual gameplay.

Every time I take damage, my health refills within fifteen to twenty seconds. That's not a little thing, and that's very relevant to gameplay. Call me a traditionalist, but I miss the days when it'd take a full day of hard rest to cure 2d4 points of damage; back then, potions and healing and regen powers actually MEANT something.

I tell ya, I'm having more fun as a vampire during the day than I ever did otherwise.

Then you must have some kind of buffs on your character, because health doesn't regenerate anywhere near that fast naturally.

The only buffs I've got are my arms, chest, and delts. BOOM!

No, seriously, health regenerates wicked fast, at least when you're out of combat. Maybe if you're a Warrior type who, thanks to being unable to sneak, has constantly got enemies on alert, I can see you having to wait a couple minutes to heal. But even then, a couple minutes is too generous- auto-regen, if it happens at all, should be so slow it takes a full day of activity to restore. Since that's just silly, it should be removed entirely, at least optionally for those of us who don't fancy Call of Duty mechanics.

[metaphysician]

I'm sorry, but I still fail to see how it could even possibly make a difference so long as the novice healing spell exists and is standard issue to all characters.

[wolfiesmith]

Beer was what people drank. Small beer for women and children, which had a low alcohol content. The water from wells, rivers etc were too soiled and polluted for drinking 'neat' and it was thought the alcohol helped purify the water.

Brewers were seen much the same as farmers, food producers, rather than just makers of an alcohic drink.

I'm sorry, I thought this was Skyrim, land of crystal alpine springs which flow from rocks a hundred meters above the aquifer, not 18th century Germany, land of intestinal parasites and the flux. My mistake!

If you really want to try and pigeonhole Tamriel into pre-industrial Earth patterns of development and consumption, then don't forget, ancient beer generally had a much smaller alcoholic content than the modern stuff we enjoy today. Is that really what you want to picture your Nord warrior downing right before he slays a dragon? Watery horker-pee? Black-Briar Lite (with Lime)? That would certainly explain why you can't get drunk off the stuff, but I say no. I refuse to accept that the Mead the Dovakhiin keeps by his bed is fit for general human consumption; where's the fun in that?

If I wanted my Mage to drink Horker-pee I'd drink the water. Crystal alpine springs . . . . full of bandits 'water' and some giants first dump of the day.

I'll stick to ale and mead.

[Godkiller]

I think what we're waiting for is for someone to get creative with the Creation Kit and make this Realistic Mode. This is precisely why Bethesda put the Creation Kit out there, so people could continue to add gameplay. So, I'm pretty sure we just need to be patient, and it'll come out sooner or later.

[comeatmebrah]

Hardcore mode is more so tied to the game's mechanics, rather than game difficulty. For a hardcore mode to work in a RPG game like 'The Elder Scrolls' would require a mass-overhauling of the current combat system, in which 'player skill' would become a major element in slaying monsters. I must remind you, this is an RPG-style game and that player skill is optional, while character stats have always been paramount. It doesn't matter what degree of skill you possess if the game disallows for you to demonstrate it effectively in combat.

It all boils down to the stats in RPG games like TES. You can only slay a certain monster if your stats are within the required threshold. And that threshold isn't very flexible. It doesn't matter how great your aim is, or how proficient at dodging, blocking or weaving. There are limitations to the game's design, controls and controller responsiveness.

Hardcore mode will only be made the ordinary when the TES developers decide to involve the aspect of player skill.

[umber hulk]

jesus [&@%!] christ, its not complicated at all, its just an added dimension to the food feature ffs, which was copied from fallout new vegas anyway, they just never copied the hardcore mode bit, THATS ALL!

why do people have such ridiculous hangups about this subject?

[Mattbott]

why do people have such ridiculous hangups about this subject?

cos this game is perfect

[enyamerT]

Hardcore mode is more so tied to the game's mechanics, rather than game difficulty. For a hardcore mode to work in a RPG game like 'The Elder Scrolls' would require a mass-overhauling of the current combat system, in which 'player skill' would become a major element in slaying monsters. I must remind you, this is an RPG-style game and that player skill is optional, while character stats have always been paramount. It doesn't matter what degree of skill you possess if the game disallows for you to demonstrate it effectively in combat.

It all boils down to the stats in RPG games like TES. You can only slay a certain monster if your stats are within the required threshold. And that threshold isn't very flexible. It doesn't matter how great your aim is, or how proficient at dodging, blocking or weaving. There are limitations to the game's design, controls and controller responsiveness.

Hardcore mode will only be made the ordinary when the TES developers decide to involve the aspect of player skill.

At which point it basically becomes an FPS (first person slasher/spellflinger?) and not an RPG.