Yeah and btw many many many treeties happen with trading citys, its very veyr common, how is it not "dipmatic"Rynkar wrote:After Ulfric demanded a city, so they negotiated a trade....sheesh.
All could be said for the latest Empire.Mekorosi wrote:I honestly can't figure out what Ulfric is. He acts and speaks like a wise, noble warrior with a kind heart, but when you look at how he rules Windhelm...he really isn't. He allows the Dunmer and Argonians to suffer, not even perking an ear or casting a glance to their troubles. Futhermore, dialogue with other npcs start giving doubts of all Ulfric builds himself to be as they point out that everything he does could be a clever political manuever to make him look awesome and secure himself more power and influence.
The Empire has my allegiance.
Not really, if you go to the end, (of his side at least) he admits the empire nor him is the "Good guy" the real bad guy is the high elf (which both sides agree to)Rynkar wrote:You are, don't worry.
Wow that sounds like Ulfric!
Yes, but it has the potential to be great.Nightingale wrote:An Empire without a Dragonborn on the throne isn't the Empire to me.
It died with Martin Septim.
Wolfie wrote: Not really, if you go to the end, (of his side at least) he admits the empire nor him is the "Good guy" the real bad guy is the high elf (which both sides agree to)
I really want to know why you hate him, half of your reassons so far are untrue, ad you do have some good points to, but that makes him a scum? and the worse one of them all?
Some things you said that where not trueL
Him being a sleeper anget meaning he works for them at any giving word.
Racist, wating to kick out all non nords, which is untrue.
him not doing things that are dpomatic (taking a city for negatiaons) whe in fact thats what diplomcy focus on a LOT
Never trying to talk to the Jarl of Whiterun when it stats he did.
etc
Is he a saint? No, but is the empire any better?
I dont mind you hating him just for hating him, I can understand that but when you put things that are just not true...
Heck I dont love evreything he did at all, and he is by no means a saint, maybe some what of a jerk. but so is half the nord population
and you got this how? found a letter admiting it? or just what you feel?Ulfric is about Ulfric, he wants to be High King.
I dont know, but neither do youHm, a thought. Would Ulfric agree to giving up Talos worship if he could secure the crown and the Empire's withdrawal without fighting? Is he genuinely following Talos or is it merely a tool?
What code? you mean the "peace one" the one that talos him self broke?He's already violated the Voice code.
The empire at full strength with almsot all the provinces still with them, and a few others BARRLY took back their city, the empire no longer has a HALF of those forces, while the redgaruds by them selfs kicked the Thalmor out, yeah Empire not doing to good and all the while the nords have to sit and let the Thalmor walk all over them\take their pepole\faith\homesThe Thalmor are indeed the real bad guys, the difference is the Empire's trying to restore peace and build its strength back up to challenge them whereas Ulfric's hoping to topple the Empire and praying the Elves don't come calling.
And the empire is to stupid to relzie that a easy way to selltel this is let them go away on good terms, so that you can team up together AND the nords can worship who they want.Ulfric being a Thalmor agent makes for a nice conspiracy theory but him being a useful idiot is all they really need. His rebellion has the Thalmor's support - it further weakens the Empire.
Read it again, the part that was wrong, was he say Ulfric would kick out all non Nords form skyrim. not that Ulfric is raccist.Not racist?!?!? Are you kidding. There are the true sons of Skyrim and then there's the rest. Any 'treasonous Nord' or non-Nord, if not slated for a forcible eviction from a Stormcloak ruled Skyrim, is clearly set to be a second class citizen who can't expect any support. Just look at the Dunmer etc in Windhelm or listen to Ulfric's 'support' for victims of brigands etc. Not Nord=no support.
Hammerfell and Morrowind would still provide food and resources and I think Skyrim can manage fine by itself. Cyrodiil would be the one in trouble without Skyrims silver and mineralsMai'ik wrote:Its my belief that the Empire is simply good business.. Herer's why.. If Ulfric were to win the war, and not invade cyrodill, then the empire could ( and would if they're smart ) place a trade embargo on skyrim. No trade, no money, no goods going in or out,nothing. It would leave the people of skyrim destitute and starving.
Ulfric would indeed become high king of skyrim, but he would be the king of an empty land in my opinion. His people would starve to death. Should he choose to invade cyrodil, it would weaken his forces in skyrim and make the country easy pickings for any third party nation that wanted its resources..
Empire has Thalmor guys everywhere so they cant do s***On the other hand, should the empire win the war, the nation goes back to the state its enjoyed for hundreds of years ( according to the jarl of whiterun ) and the status quo is restored. restoring empirial rule in my opinion would re-unify the empire, allowing everyone to focus on the real bad guys ( the thalmer ) and work towards defeating them.
Maybe Septim empire fits in skyrim but these ruins of empire doesnt belong in SkyrimNow, Seeing as Talos was reportedly a nord, it would indicate to me that the empire is a nordic
AND dunmer ( st allesia ) creation. Ergo, the empire was originally nordic. Therefore, it seems natural to me that the empire, being nordic in origin, is no more out of place in skyrim than the cave bears.
Ahh, but the Nords left Atmora only to bring war to Tamriel, driving out the elves that were already there. Karma's a female dog.Mai'ik wrote:Now, Seeing as Talos was reportedly a nord, it would indicate to me that the empire is a nordic AND dunmer ( st allesia ) creation. Ergo, the empire was originally nordic. Therefore, it seems natural to me that the empire, being nordic in origin, is no more out of place in skyrim than the cave bears.
Alliance with Hammerfell, maybe, though relations thanks to the Thalmor are pretty bitter at present. Alliance with Skyrim? No chance in Oblivion I'd say. Especially not if\when an Ulfric led Skyrim looks to expand its borders into High Rock as it has done in the pre-Imperial past.Wolfie wrote:and you got this how? found a letter admiting it? or just what you feel?Ulfric is about Ulfric, he wants to be High King.
I dont know, but neither do youHm, a thought. Would Ulfric agree to giving up Talos worship if he could secure the crown and the Empire's withdrawal without fighting? Is he genuinely following Talos or is it merely a tool?
What code? you mean the "peace one" the one that talos him self broke?He's already violated the Voice code.
The empire at full strength with almsot all the provinces still with them, and a few others BARRLY took back their city, the empire no longer has a HALF of those forces, while the redgaruds by them selfs kicked the Thalmor out, yeah Empire not doing to good and all the while the nords have to sit and let the Thalmor walk all over them\take their pepole\faith\homesThe Thalmor are indeed the real bad guys, the difference is the Empire's trying to restore peace and build its strength back up to challenge them whereas Ulfric's hoping to topple the Empire and praying the Elves don't come calling.
The nords think they can beat the Thalmor and I think they can, there is a reasson the nords built the empire
And the empire is to stupid to relzie that a easy way to selltel this is let them go away on good terms, so that you can team up together AND the nords can worship who they want.Ulfric being a Thalmor agent makes for a nice conspiracy theory but him being a useful idiot is all they really need. His rebellion has the Thalmor's support - it further weakens the Empire.
its a win win for all but The empire is selfish, note I am not syaing they are "wrong" to do that, any rulling body would do what they did, but its still an idoit move when their is a much much better way that helps them all.
Did I miss anything?
Read it again, the part that was wrong, was he say Ulfric would kick out all non Nords form skyrim. not that Ulfric is raccist.Not racist?!?!? Are you kidding. There are the true sons of Skyrim and then there's the rest. Any 'treasonous Nord' or non-Nord, if not slated for a forcible eviction from a Stormcloak ruled Skyrim, is clearly set to be a second class citizen who can't expect any support. Just look at the Dunmer etc in Windhelm or listen to Ulfric's 'support' for victims of brigands etc. Not Nord=no support.
What I dont get is evrey one jumps on Ulfric for being racist ad his whole cause is evil and can not be liked but the dark elfs are awsome and are the greatist of all time...
Uh; you do realize that Tiber Septim was a Nord (aka Talos Stormcrow), right? That the "Empire" was forged by his conquest of Tamriel at the end of 2E? So yes, the current empire was very much created by the Nords. Its seat is in Cryodiil, but the Septim line are (er... were) of Nordic descent. And from the shape of the empire in Skyrim, without their leadership the empire's fallen into a pretty sad state.Lord Elvewyn wrote:INords built the Empire? Uh what? It's Cyrodil that's the Empire not Skyrim.
If you're willing to dismiss the Nords as nothing more than "axe-wielding barbarians", there's really not much point in continuing to debate you. It should be pointed out though, that your view is not consistent with the history & lore of either Skyrim, the empire, or Tamriel in general. The Nords have a history of repeated martial success, especially against elven-kind, and already showed they can conquer Tamriel if need be...As for them beating the Thalmor - ROFL!!! A bunch of axe wielding barbarians beat the Thalmor??? If the Empire can't do it a small province whose population fear magic are toast.
The Nords didn't "bring" war with them. They were relatively at peace until the Elves saw something they wanted and the Nords refused.everar wrote:Ahh, but the Nords left Atmora only to bring war to Tamriel, driving out the elves that were already there. Karma's a female dog.Mai'ik wrote:Now, Seeing as Talos was reportedly a nord, it would indicate to me that the empire is a nordic AND dunmer ( st allesia ) creation. Ergo, the empire was originally nordic. Therefore, it seems natural to me that the empire, being nordic in origin, is no more out of place in skyrim than the cave bears.
Actually it was the opposite. The Elves objected to a rapidly reproducing invasive species encroaching on their territory so they wiped out Saarthal. A few survivors fled back to Atmora and an army of 500 warriors returned to start a genocidal war. Hmm unless you mean the Thalmor Elves wanting to end Talos worship and some Nords objecting?FrostyInferno016 wrote:The Nords didn't "bring" war with them. They were relatively at peace until the Elves saw something they wanted and the Nords refused.everar wrote:Ahh, but the Nords left Atmora only to bring war to Tamriel, driving out the elves that were already there. Karma's a female dog.Mai'ik wrote:Now, Seeing as Talos was reportedly a nord, it would indicate to me that the empire is a nordic AND dunmer ( st allesia ) creation. Ergo, the empire was originally nordic. Therefore, it seems natural to me that the empire, being nordic in origin, is no more out of place in skyrim than the cave bears.
Do your homework. That might've been part of it but Ysgramor found something in Saarthal the Elves wanted. Either way the Elves were the aggressors.Lord Elewyn wrote:
Actually it was the opposite. The Elves objected to a rapidly reproducing invasive species encroaching on their territory so they wiped out Saarthal. A few survivors fled back to Atmora and an army of 500 warriors returned to start a genocidal war. Hmm unless you mean the Thalmor Elves wanting to end Talos worship and some Nords objecting?
I love that he fully admits the elves "wiped out" Saarthal first, yet still places the blame for starting the war on the Nords.FrostyInferno016 wrote:Do your homework. That might've been part of it but Ysgramor found something in Saarthal the Elves wanted. Either way the Elves were the aggressors.
He says he will respect what ever the moot agrees on.In game conversation says Ulfric's out to be King. Has he admitted that himself, can't recall. Haven't spent much time talking with him, maybe next character.
That code is only for the grayberds not any one eles who learns the shouts...Yes and no about the peace code. Talos was Dragon Born, he's not codebound. Ulfric is a Nord NOT Dragon Born. He's bound by the code. Violating it doesn't bring any penalties though - the Greybeards don't enforce it.
So with one its not muder and the other it is?It does mean that any Thalmor learning the Voice can kill a Stormcloak High King in a legal duel and take the crown, same as Ulfric effectively murdered the previous High King.
He did not set it, its been used by nords forever.Note I'm not suggesting it's legal in an Imperial sense but under a Stormcloak regime the precedent's set.
Yep but at least they did something, the empire hard mor forces ad the emprore decide to "give up"No the Empire wasn't at full strength. Oblivion had major consequences for the Empire. They hadn't recovered and possibly never will. At the time the Thalmor attacked they were down about half their territory as well. The main thrust of the attack was against Cyrodil and that's what the Empire managed to defeat in a pyrrhic victory though they bled the Aldmeri in Hammerfell prior to that. What the Redguard forces defeated were the tattered remanants of a minor force facing the combined forces of Hammerfell, as well as large numbers of discharged Imperial 'invalids'. Even then it took 5 years of fighting and Southern Hammerfell was left in ruins.
others have told you bout this so...Nords built the Empire? Uh what? It's Cyrodil that's the Empire not Skyrim.
IF you have not notecid the Thalmor do not want the stormcloaks to win the warAs for them beating the Thalmor - ROFL!!! A bunch of axe wielding barbarians beat the Thalmor??? If the Empire can't do it a small province whose population fear magic are toast.
Uh huhThe real question is whether the Thalmor would bother trying to wipe out Solitude, Winterhold and the other coast cities.
Wrong, the empire is still kicking if skyrim leftThe Empire can't release Skyrim. It's the 2nd to last province in the Empire and the only connection to High Rock. It goes and so does the Empire.
Furthermore handing Skyrim over to Ulfric has several problems, not least the loss of the Empire. It'd be seen as a violation of the Treaty - the Empire trying to avoid its responsibilities which could cause war to start up again and the Empire cannot afford that.
It would see a hostile power in the north, Ulfric's no friend of the Empire.
if this is the case then not a single place, ever was unified there will always be somepeole not happyA united Skyrim wouldn't be unified - the Foresworn don't like Nords or the Empire.
Similarly would Whiterun and the other places whose Jarls are replaced\effectively removed from power remain peaceful?
He wont do that, he even says, they are going to rest and then KICK the thalmor out of their home, he has no plans to invad anyone right now, the real enemy is the thalmor no one eles.Especially not if\when an Ulfric led Skyrim looks to expand its borders into High Rock as it has done in the pre-Imperial past.
The same can be said about the stormclocks, they want a stable lawful socity where you can worship who you wat, and defend their own pepole since the empire is not stoping the thalmor form takig nords.Their justice is harsh, as your neck almost discovers, but they are trying to foster a stable lawful society, and one that can defend people against the Thalmor
Not at all, go play both siudes, its meant to be shadesd of graySo the short view is they're good and the Stormcloaks bad.
