Bethesda Patch Discussion - Console and PC

[golan2072]

STEAM has downloaded patch v1.2 and now I can't pick locks - it says "A or D to rotate lock" but neither seem to work; previously I've used A and it worked very well.

Try the cursor keys or something.

The cursor keys work! Thanks for the tip!

[Luvitus]

STEAM has downloaded patch v1.2 and now I can't pick locks - it says "A or D to rotate lock" but neither seem to work; previously I've used A and it worked very well.

Try the cursor keys or something.

The cursor keys work! Thanks for the tip!

No problem :3

[JJKG]

Okay, I don't know if the patch has had any effect on me... My magic resistance shows up as being there on active effect, (though I'm not sure if it really is working), and the only thing I've had wrong was a dragon which was really low-res (don't know the proper term to describe it, so I'll stick with that). Other than that, I've had no dragons flying backwards or floating slaughterfish, and the patch has definitely been downloaded. Should I keep playing and risk my game being [&@%!] up or not?

[Iaius Amaius Heron]

Please keep this thread open to posts about actual discussions on patch related breaks, problems, concerns, and updates. You are more than welcome to take any complaints against Bethesda to the Multimedia subforum. Posts outside of actual patch discussion will be deleted going forward.

Thank you, everyone!

I hope that you take giving that advice with a grain of salt, as it is kind of difficult avoiding complaining about Bethesda when it is Bethesda's patch that we are complaining about.

Yeah I know. I bet he's all grins and giggles when the cashier sneezes on his happy meal.

[born2beagator]

Okay, I don't know if the patch has had any effect on me... My magic resistance shows up as being there on active effect, (though I'm not sure if it really is working), and the only thing I've had wrong was a dragon which was really low-res (don't know the proper term to describe it, so I'll stick with that). Other than that, I've had no dragons flying backwards or floating slaughterfish, and the patch has definitely been downloaded. Should I keep playing and risk my game being [&@%!] up or not?

Yeah magic resistance still shows. Its the problem of the game not implementing it. Summon a Flame Atronach and cast a fire spell at it. Bet you it takes damage

[Evil-i]

I don't know if this Link has been posted before. I checked back a few pages, and I didn't see it. While it doesn't deal with the actual 1.2 Skyrim patch, it does offer a good explanation to lag/freezing issues, particularly where the PS3 is concerned.

In a nutshell, and in spite of all the PC-gamer groaning over how Skyrim was primarily engineered as a console game, it would seem that Skyrim is simply too much game for the current consoles, and that sort of core engineering simply isn't fixable by band-aid patches. Sadly, what I take from this link, is that console gamers have bought themselves a glorified shelf-filler which is destined to collect dust after the game becomes unplayable after X number of gaming hours.

[noobishlord]

A new glitch me and my friend found.

In Lake Ilinarta, near the Lady Stone, a few slaughterfish swam out of the lake and floated on land. While we sung 'I believe I can fly' during this, we realized it was a horrible glitch.

Do you think this, too, might have been caused by the new patch?

No, this has happened to me, and I've kept myself on patch 1.1. "Over-achieving Slaughterfish," I believe I've read someone calling them.

[dtmwerks]

I don't know if this Link has been posted before. I checked back a few pages, and I didn't see it. While it doesn't deal with the actual 1.2 Skyrim patch, it does offer a good explanation to lag/freezing issues, particularly where the PS3 is concerned.

In a nutshell, and in spite of all the PC-gamer groaning over how Skyrim was primarily engineered as a console game, it would seem that Skyrim is simply too much game for the current consoles, and that sort of core engineering simply isn't fixable by band-aid patches. Sadly, what I take from this link, is that console gamers have bought themselves a glorified shelf-filler which is destined to collect dust after the game becomes unplayable after X number of gaming hours.

Well, I assume that a GOOD patch will save console gamers!

[Evil-i]

Well, if I understand what's being said in that Link, the ever-increasing Save File size isn't the core "problem" that people are making it out to be. The file sizes are whatever they need to be in order for the game engine to run properly. The real problem is that Bethesda made Skyrim too ambitious for the RAM capabilities of current consoles, and that isn't something that can be fixed by a patch. As far as Save File size goes, the game is running properly, it's the consoles' RAM capabilities that are deficient.

Solutions: play Skyrim on PC, or wait until the next generation of consoles launches and hope that Skyrim is backwards-compatible.

[dtmwerks]

Well, if I understand what's being said in that Link, the ever-increasing Save File size isn't the core "problem" that people are making it out to be. The file sizes are whatever they need to be in order for the game engine to run properly. The real problem is that Bethesda made Skyrim too ambitious for the RAM capabilities of current consoles, and that isn't something that can be fixed by a patch. As far as Save File size goes, the game is running properly, it's the consoles' RAM capabilities that are deficient.

Solutions: play Skyrim on PC, or wait until the next generation of consoles launches and hope that Skyrim is backwards-compatible.

Wow if that really is true, and console gamers start to realize this, there could be a huge backlash against Bethesda, and rightly so. I hope they find a way to do something about it. Can't they just patch it so that everyone plays on lower settings and a lower framerate? Surely there must be a way to cut corners to allow the game to function on consoles.

[Evil-i]

Wow if that really is true, and console gamers start to realize this, there could be a huge backlash against Bethesda, and rightly so. I hope they find a way to do something about it. Can't they just patch it so that everyone plays on lower settings and a lower framerate? Surely there must be a way to cut corners to allow the game to function on consoles.

DISCLAIMER: The following is nothing but the purest speculation.

On the surface of it, it may be that Bethesda tried an end-run or back door approach to the issue. Since the 1.2 patch came out, texture and colour glitches have become commonplace enough to make for common reading. Perhaps they tried to "cut corners" in order to deal with Save File size issue by dumbing-down various performance settings by way of the Patch, without disclosing their true intent. Sadly, if this is the case, they dropped the ball by issuing a rushed or poorly-developed patch.

Like I said, it's speculation, but the optics fit the situation perfectly, however unpleasant it may be to observe.

[dtmwerks]

Isn't the lag and huge fps drops mainly an issue for ps3 users, and if I understand correctly, in terms of power, PS3 > xbox 360?

[Harald_Drake-Eyes]

I know PC players have some chop issues.

[Evil-i]

Isn't the lag and huge fps drops mainly an issue for ps3 users, and if I understand correctly, in terms of power, PS3 > xbox 360?

From what I've read, both consoles have the same amount of RAM: 512 MB. The issue is the PS3 divides its RAM in two, with each 256 MB block dedicated to a different function, while the 'Box's RAM is "unified", or something like that. The gist of it is that the PS's divided RAM can result in one of the blocks to become overtaxed sooner than the 'Box's RAM, resulting in framerate and freezing issues when pushed hard against the wall, just as your PC's performance will suffer when its RAM becomes stogged.

[dtmwerks]

Well, those were a lot of words I don't understand, but I'll take your word for it

Yeah pc users also have problems, but after I installed the 4gb ram patch thing, I haven't had a single crash and texture issues have disappeared!!! However, my framerate has no improved =/

It's still decent 60 outside but there are plenty of points where it drops to 30-40 when I feel like it shouldn't but others say otherwise. Was hoping that the patch would fix that but clearly they have more pressing issues to take care of first.

[Huntershound]

Hey everyone, sorry to interrupt the flow. I've been trying to monitor information about Patch 1.3 that was discussed earlier however there doesn't seem to be a topic for it and I was wondering if there was any new news as it relates to fixing 1.2. Thank you for your time.

[FuzzyMage]

Hey everyone, sorry to interrupt the flow. I've been trying to monitor information about Patch 1.3 that was discussed earlier however there doesn't seem to be a topic for it and I was wondering if there was any new news as it relates to fixing 1.2. Thank you for your time.

As stated earlier in this thread (I know there's a lot to wade through, so no worries), taken from the December 1st posting in the BethBlog [ http://www.bethblog.com/ ] :

Continued Game Updates – This week we released update 1.2 across all platforms, and we’ll be releasing an incremental update next week. We anticipate it will be up on PC first, and then hit PS3 and Xbox 360 later in the week. Among other things, the update will fix issues like magic resistance not calculating properly and the rare, amazing backwards flying dragon. Once the update is released, we’ll share the full release notes.

That means we can expect a patch sometime this week for all platforms, assuming there aren't any problems.

[Huntershound]

Hey everyone, sorry to interrupt the flow. I've been trying to monitor information about Patch 1.3 that was discussed earlier however there doesn't seem to be a topic for it and I was wondering if there was any new news as it relates to fixing 1.2. Thank you for your time.

As stated earlier in this thread (I know there's a lot to wade through, so no worries), taken from the December 1st posting in the BethBlog:

Continued Game Updates – This week we released update 1.2 across all platforms, and we’ll be releasing an incremental update next week. We anticipate it will be up on PC first, and then hit PS3 and Xbox 360 later in the week. Among other things, the update will fix issues like magic resistance not calculating properly and the rare, amazing backwards flying dragon. Once the update is released, we’ll share the full release notes.

That means we can expect a patch sometime this week for all platforms, assuming there aren't any problems.

Yes, I had seen that, thank you. I was wodering if we had heard anything else or to maybe set up a catch for any information learned later in the day.

[FuzzyMage]

If there was any new information, I'm sure someone would have posted it by now! I'm sure a mod will set up a thread for the 1.3 patch when it's available, tho'.

[chillcoastKEV]

A quick question, I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to things like this..

Since hearing about the problems of 1.2, I have been playing on my xbox offline to avoid downloading it. When 1.3 comes out and (hopefully) fixes the problems caused by 1.2, will downloading that patch be sufficient? Or do I need to get 1.2 to make 1.3 work properly?

Probably a dumb question. But again, I'm pretty dumb about this stuff.

[dtmwerks]

Haha you'll download them both at the same time, or 1.2 then 1.3

Either way, you're like 100% safe. If anything, wait until you see the general reaction to patch 1.3 before you dl it. I think everyone will be a little wary of downloading 1.3

[Akiraka]

Haha you'll download them both at the same time, or 1.2 then 1.3

Either way, you're like 100% safe. If anything, wait until you see the general reaction to patch 1.3 before you dl it. I think everyone will be a little wary of downloading 1.3

Yeah, I think I'm sticking with 1.1 until the first DLC comes out.

The sad reality though, is that the DLC will probably all be buggy too. Recall the perpetually locked Mystic Emporium bug (that they never fixed). I guess it all comes down to deciding how buggy a game we're willing to play, and living with (or without) it, heh.

[chillcoastKEV]

Okay, thanks dude.

I know there have been lots of problems and it sucks, but I'm really hoping everything will be good... eventually.
Will definitely wait to see what happens first.

[Lynx2069]

Isn't the lag and huge fps drops mainly an issue for ps3 users, and if I understand correctly, in terms of power, PS3 > xbox 360?

From what I've read, both consoles have the same amount of RAM: 512 MB. The issue is the PS3 divides its RAM in two, with each 256 MB block dedicated to a different function, while the 'Box's RAM is "unified", or something like that. The gist of it is that the PS's divided RAM can result in one of the blocks to become overtaxed sooner than the 'Box's RAM, resulting in framerate and freezing issues when pushed hard against the wall, just as your PC's performance will suffer when its RAM becomes stogged.

The PS3 also only allows the PPE core to have direct access to any of the 512MB of Ram, while the 6 (5 really, one is dedicated to the XMB) SPE must wait on the PPE to access and move data between the RAM and HDD.

The issue, I believe, occurs when the save size delays and increases the seek time of the HDD ever so slightly, which delays the PPE's processes, which cascades into tremendous lag and some crashes. The "bit field" issue mentioned by Obsidian, if my thinking is correct, is a sort of "buffer overrun" of the RAM which would require, at least on PS3, serious reworking of the engine to allow smother memory transition between the PPE and SPE's.

What's confusing is, why only certain PS3s? I have 106 hrs in, and since 1.2 have had very smooth gameplay and only 2-3 crashes since launch.

Wikipedia gives a very precise explination below, italics for emphasis.
"The PPE, which is capable of running a conventional operating system, has control over the SPEs and can start, stop, interrupt, and schedule processes running on the SPEs. To this end the PPE has additional instructions relating to control of the SPEs. Unlike SPEs, the PPE can read and write the main memory and the local memories of SPEs through the standard load/store instructions. Despite having Turing complete architectures, the SPEs are not fully autonomous and require the PPE to prime them before they can do any useful work. Though most of the "horsepower" of the system comes from the synergistic processing elements, the use of DMA as a method of data transfer and the limited local memory footprint of each SPE pose a major challenge to software developers who wish to make the most of this horsepower, demanding careful hand-tuning of programs to extract maximal performance from this CPU."

[Dark Spark]

A new glitch me and my friend found.

In Lake Ilinarta, near the Lady Stone, a few slaughterfish swam out of the lake and floated on land. While we sung 'I believe I can fly' during this, we realized it was a horrible glitch.

Do you think this, too, might have been caused by the new patch?

No, this has happened to me, and I've kept myself on patch 1.1. "Over-achieving Slaughterfish," I believe I've read someone calling them.

You kiddin'? Flying slaughterfish could be seen in Oblivion, of all things...


As to my PC experiences when it concerns performance, I have had only seldom crashes, no freezes, and framerates get slightly choppy with rapid scrolling in outdoor cells only*. This is version 1.12— I've stayed offline to avoid the 1.2 patch

Take into account I have 8 gigs of RAM (so the machine isn't exactly bumping against background processes and having to stretch for resources) and I have 6 cores to play with (game can use only 4, but again— background conflict is no longer a factor). I have to wonder if the extra processors are what keep the particularly nasty gremlins from finding their way into my little stretch of Skyrim.

Mind you, I'm sure to run afoul of all the gameplay glitches like everyone else, which is one reason I'm taking things rather slow with my character.


*this on my canned graphics card which draws power solely from the PCI bridge. I have a bigger, better card of the same family in a carton, but I'll need a larger power supply to spin it.