So I really like morrowind/oblivion/skyrim. But...

[havanaradio]

... I don't think that any of them are as cool as Daggerfall. Sure, it had bugs. Shortcomings. Certain flaws. But in terms of scope, story, and challenge it outstrips its descendants. The dungeons are probably the ultimate feature of the game - many times the size and more importantly the COMPLEXITY of anything the later "dumbed down" games offered. And it had a 3d map system that was really swell. All in all probly my favorite game of all time.

[Talamare]

I played Arena, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim

Missed one

[fabittar]

Google "DaggerXL" ... already in Alpha. Trying to pressure the programmer to release a Beta before Xmas.

[havanaradio]

Thanks for the tip - all those games are great. For now, Ill just have to stick with dosbox. Turn your pixel shaders to 11. (or HQ2x.)

And Talamare - It's free from bethesda and well supported by dosbox. Save the empire again for the first time. Plus boobs.

[Akiraka]

Never played Daggerfall, but from the gameplay vids I've seen, it certainly looks like an incredible game. It's sad that, while I'm not necessarily a snob for graphics (I don't consider vanilla Morrowind a big step down from Ob/Sky), Daggerfall may be just beyond my threshold.
I wish I knew more about it, though. How's the magic system work? Anything like Morrowind?

[Iaius Amaius Heron]

"You dream of the moon, and of a man, who is less, than a man."

How in the world is THAT line not infamous for horrible voice acting and hack-writing, when "You, the master of lockpicking, take it with you." is?

[N'wah Nern]

Daggerfall's dungeons were randomly generated, its NPCs were info terminals, and its quests (maybe I'm looking in the wrong places) were all very similar. Fast travel was not just recommended but nessecary to get anywhere.

What it did right was character customization and background. I'd like to see a return to that.

[MARS]

Daggerfall is without a doubt an incredible game. Especially the character creation as Nern pointed out. But his other points stand. It was far too randomized. After a while you stop seeing unique quests, you see what's really there. A simple programming formula that allowed for randomized quests and dungeons. It simply lacks detail. Each game makes an effort of its own and excels at certain things, while having other shortcomings. I would class Daggerfall as my third favourite ES game, after Morrowind and Skyrim.

[Akiraka]

Daggerfall is without a doubt an incredible game. Especially the character creation as Nern pointed out. But his other points stand. It was far too randomized

There's some goofy wapanese or whatever the word is translation for it... "mystery dungeon" I think, that has it's own genre. Basically, characterized by randomized dungeons (and turn-based gameplay, but nevermind that).
While hand-drawn, carefully designed dungeons are nice, I don't think a random generator is altogether a bad thing. Every single dungeons in Skyrim, for example, while certainly unique in their small ways and generally gorgeous, etc., are either circular, and/ or just happen to have a magic exit right where it's most convenient (gods forbid a man have to take the long way out of the dungeon he just cleared, I guess) which can, to me anyway, become quite boring itself. I think a good random dungeon generator could liven things up in that respect. There's also nothing to prevent a game from having both randomly generated and 'concrete' dungeons, either.
It would also save a lot of room for other content, I think.

[MARS]

I agree, but Daggerfall was too randomized. It's pretty apparent (and nevermind all the bugs that happen due to Bethesda's known lack of testing) and makes the game less and less enjoyable over time.

[Akiraka]

I agree, but Daggerfall was too randomized. It's pretty apparent (and nevermind all the bugs that happen due to Bethesda's known lack of testing) and makes the game less and less enjoyable over time.

Ah, that's a shame. They really need to get a grip with that.
LoL Bethy, if you're reading this, I'll be your tester, guys. Seriously.

[MorroWeiner]

I've had daggerfall on my computer fof the longest time and decided to play it because of this thread. Couldn't figure out how to punch the rat in the cave and died.

[havanaradio]

The main quest line dungeons were hand-made and each one is bigger, mazey-er and meaner than anything dished out by bethesda since then. To me RPGs are about exploration, and if you can't get actually lost in a game then the game is missing something really important imo. Fallout 3 is a good example of a modern game that managed to give me that same sense. And i believe there is a finite, though quite large, number of dungeons for regular quests. I think that they used a algorithm to assemble big dungeons from the 32 "blocks" they used to make the hand made dungeons. Then they went through and tweaked these dungeons, putting in a few unique touches to differentiate them. The game clearly was released waaay too early though, agreed. What I've found is that you have to cooperate with the spirit of the game and, as lame as this sounds, really roleplay your character to get the most out of this game. If you approach it that way you can get a lot more out of it than if you approach it as a series of challenges to be met, e.g. Im going to beat the mages guild. The game does get boring if you dont mix it up and make your character interesting. I hope some people actually give the game a shot, cos the main story line is awesome. edit : dont let the controls stop you from playing. you can set it up to play with wsad and mouse free look just like a modern game, you just have to doit.

[dzio]

The random dungeons and the dungeon map system were the reason I stopped playing. Sure, it's cool when the dungeon is huge and the 3D map was clearly ahead of its time. But on the other hand after a while they all look the same (literally, you encounter the same configurations of rooms, ramps and corridors, because the game is using hand-drawn blocks and they are pretty big). And the 3D map may be a novelty, but because of the size of the dungeons it is also pretty much unreadable. You spend several hours dungeon-crawling, following the right wall, then following the left wall, then painstakingly checking the entire maze on the map for unexplored passages, then looking for secret doorways... And you still miss one corridor and can't find the quest location. Not to mention all the bugs and glitches that made me walk into the "void" between the walls, fall through solid floor, or wouldn't let me pick an object straight in front of me. After a while it gets so frustrating that you want to scream. Yes, the world is insanely huge and complicated (and all the great stuff mentioned by other people here is true too), but what should be one of the high points of the game IMHO was turned into annoying tedium and ruined the whole experience for me.

[havanaradio]

Dzio - yeah, the falling through floor thing is a major bug... also getting trapped on top of a mob and unable to hit it. BUT - if you were having extreme difficulty finding the quest items repeatedly I have to ask, how were you running the program? Cos if you were trying to do it without Dosbox there is a nasty windows bug that makes quest items invisible...

[dzio]

I got the free DaggerfallSetup.exe download, it runs DosBox for you by itself. But the problem was not really not being able to pick up the quest object (that happened only once that I can remember), but not being able to find it in that impossible maze.

[Iaius Amaius Heron]

Is Daggerfall that much more buggy than vanilla Morrowind? If not, I just might give it a whirl someday. If so... I just might give it a whirl someday.

[dzio]

From my experience I'd say about twice as buggy. People used to call it Buggerfall for a reason... But it's still enjoyable, if the dated graphics don't bother you.

[Grove-of-Hares]

I remember playing Daggerfall for the first time, with it being the first time I'd heard of The Elder Scrolls, at a friend's house in middle school. I had a great time exploring such a huge game for the first time, although I'm not sure I'd want to go back to it.

However, if you've never experienced it and can, like others beforehand have stated, handle the dated graphics then by all means, you need to try it! At least for a bit.

[Dark Spark]

My gaming experience in the middle school comp labs consisted of a brief half-hour in The Oregon Trail. On a monochrome green monitor.
Never did manage to feed my virtual family one ounce of food from a well-timed buckshot blast. My, have times changed...*

Daggerfall would've seemed like a Star Trek holodeck in comparison.




...*then again, I now suspect that my teacher was monitoring all of us for potential sociopathic inclinations. Any 11-year adept enough to gun down a deer would've earned a remark 'on their permanent record'. Luckily, I was a late bloomer in this regard (that, or I just got tired of being nice).

[Gideon Dragontongue]

Ahh, Oregon Trail... Brings back so many youthful memories. I quit that game after everyone except for me died of cholera, in favor (of course) of the mighty Morrowind and Zoo Tycoon.

I haven't played the game myself, but my dad has. He says he thought Morrowind was much better, which was one of my favorite games until Skyrim came out, essentially eclipsing all others.