Stormcloak questions

[Arkhon]

You people seem not to get one thing, nobody is racist. Stormcloaks and many Nords just don't like the idea of being ruled by the Elves. Learn the game's lore and you will see why. They see this whole agreement with Aldmeri Dominion as a shame, above all of this it is Elves who banned the worship of Talos, main God in Nordish pantheon. Thalmor agents and Aldmeri-sympathisers do not even hide how they feel about non-elves calling them "citizens" and saying thigns such as "submit to the elven supremacy" and so on. As I said before, it is not as easy as many think. It is not "evil" Emprie vs "good" Stormcloaks or reverse. The whole problem is really deep for both sides.

[Mai'ik]

My first character that I just decided to retire fought for the Stormcloaks, but I really don't like how it turned out. All my future characters won't take part in the civil war. The Empire are Thalmor puppets and the Stormcloaks are racist [censored]

Spoiler:

Ulfric is a Thalmor sleeper operative

There is no black and white, only infinite shades of gray.

So very true, as it states in the Thalmer Dossier on Ulthric..

[Rynkar]

Oh my god...if everyone knew this, would anyone even support him?

[Wolfie]

I want to point out, yes ufric is playing in to the hands of the thalmor, but so is the empire, dose that meaan genral taluis is a sleper?

[Rynkar]

The general is with the empire witch is under the thalmor thumb.
So no to being a sleeper, and everyone knows he's forced to work with them.
No one knows Ulfric is waging war because he is being manipulated.

[Wolfie]

The general is with the empire witch is under the thalmor thumb.
So no to being a sleeper, and everyone knows he's forced to work with them.
No one knows Ulfric is waging war because he is being manipulated.

They are not working together... at all really, yes they do "talk" but the empire and the Thalmor do not do any join operations.

And I'm unsure what you mean by the last line.

[Rynkar]

Ulfric is only rebelling because that's what the thalmor wanted him to do.
If every nord that followed him knew that, he would have no army.

[Wolfie]

Ulfric is only rebelling because that's what the thalmor wanted him to do.
If every nord that followed him knew that, he would have no army.

Proof for this?

[Rynkar]

Nords hate thalmor and doing what they say.
they discover Ulfric is doing what he is doing because the thalmor made him do it, they loose faith in his cause, admitting some wouldn't believe it and stay anyways, but that will leave to few for an army.

[Wolfie]

Nords hate thalmor and doing what they say.
they discover Ulfric is doing what he is doing because the thalmor made him do it, they loose faith in his cause, admitting some wouldn't believe it and stay anyways, but that will leave to few for an army.

No, no , where he is working for them, where he did it cause the thalmor told him to

[Rynkar]

He is a sleeper agent and is being manipulated by the thalmor to wage war on the empire, but he doesn't know it so he thinks he cause is just.
But tell his followers that they are basically being used by elves and bam, no more followers.

[Wolfie]

He is a sleeper agent and is being manipulated by the thalmor to wage war on the empire, but he doesn't know it so he thinks he cause is just.
But tell his followers that they are basically being used by elves and bam, no more followers.

And is not the Empire having the same thing happen to them?

And just becuse someone tricks you dose not mean your cause is just, and again show me proof that he is any defreit form the empire in being used by the thalmor

[OblivionDuruza]

@Squiver, it's not only them though, people will comment that Ulfric would never send help to other settlement that were not Nordic, and that he distrusts non-Nords. Galmar Stone-Fist also gives the impression that only Nords are truly accepted, and in fact one of the dialogue options is to ask if they only take Nords as a result.

Yes, although I tend to take what the civilians say with a grain of salt. While many of them say that, it doesn't necessarily make it true - many of them could have a bias, or are merely spewing out what they've been told by those of like mind.

Of course that's not to say it isn't true, either; like I've said, I haven't made up my mind either way yet. Although I am beginning to lean towards Imperial, simply because, obviously, a divided nation is a weaker one, and the Thalmor threat is still extremely present.

-- Plus, I'm beginning to think I really don't like Ulfric himself, on a personal level. I don't like General Tullius at all, either, but he's not the one in charge, he's just leading the war effort. It just seems like Ulfric never even seriously gave diplomacy a shot in trying to bring the issue of secession to the forefront of the High Court - he just jumped straight to violence.

Spoiler:

In his speech in Windhelm he so stoically states that he would "gladly retire from the world if such a day [that soldiers were no longer required] would dawn", and then, in the next sentence, proceeds to immediately make plans to spread the war which he started. That's the sort of attitude that makes soldiers necessary.

My main reason to believe the claims are because the future Jarl Free-Winter sends you on a quest before you overthrow Ulfric, and even if you don't to help defeat bandits who have been attacking Dunmeri travellers and Khajiiti merchants, and whom Ulfric will not move a hand to stop because they have not attacked any of his 'true Nords'.

But yeah, I agree with you about Ulfric. There's something insincere about him, and I can't really say that I am a huge fan of the man.

[Rynkar]

Do you know what a sleeper cell even is?

Sure the legion being used as well, but not like Ulfric is.
Ulfric killed a king, started a war, divided a nation, all under what he thinks is his cause.
The empire is using supplies and troops to keep themselves together.
Now tell witch one is being used more.

[Wolfie]

Yes I know what it is, but it dose not matter which is being "used more" they are both being used the same way for the same thing

Yes Uffric killed a king, so what? Divide a nation, it was already divided, the empire is falling apart

he did not start the war, he challenged the high king to a dule as is their costume, when he won the empire said "You cant do that"

What do you mean "think is his cause" it is his cause, he wants this, yes the thalmor do to, but it is Uffrics cause.

[Rynkar]

They are both being used, yes.
But do you think anyone would follow Ulfric if they knew that?
The empire is being used in the sense their doing what they are suspected to do.

Ulfric kills a king then it becomes divided , its not divided before then. Their is tension but not a civil war. Skyrim was not divided, the empire was, but now skyrim is.

Customs change, an ancient way isn't the right way, he knew it so he ran after doing it, im sure that isn't a custom.

It isn't his cause, he thinks it is after the thalmor planted the idea originally.

[Wolfie]

They are both being used, yes.
But do you think anyone would follow Ulfric if they knew that?

So they should follow someone eles who is doign the same thing?

The empire is being used in the sense their doing what they are suspected to do.

So is he.

Ulfric kills a king then it becomes divided , its not divided before then. Their is tension but not a civil war. Skyrim was not divided, the empire was, but now skyrim is.

Skyrim was part of the empire thefore it was devide as it was part of the body that is divide.

Customs change, an ancient way isn't the right way, he knew it so he ran after doing it, im sure that isn't a custom.

Wrong, he ran cause they where going to kill him, there is NOTHING taat says that coustom is wrong or out of date, its just the empire wants to pick who sits on the throne

It isn't his cause, he thinks it is after the thalmor planted the idea originally.

proof of this? and even if they did, they tricked the empire first, they make the empire think the excat same thing as uffric dose, their cause is just and they need to do this whe they really need to foucs on the thaslmor

[Nightingale]

My first character that I just decided to retire fought for the Stormcloaks, but I really don't like how it turned out. All my future characters won't take part in the civil war. The Empire are Thalmor puppets and the Stormcloaks are racist [censored]

Spoiler:

Ulfric is a Thalmor sleeper operative

There is no black and white, only infinite shades of gray.

So very true, as it states in the Thalmer Dossier on Ulthric..

Not true. They merely view his civil war as a "hidden asset" to their overall scheme. Being a "sleeper operative" implies that he will simply hand over the nation once he unites it, that is very, very incorrect. I misread the document at first too...you just have to take another look it.

Ulfric Stormcloak winning the civil war is one of the last things the Thalmor want to happen.

[Rynkar]

Wolfie....

Defend you land from a power hungry maniac with a hidden agenda: what legion is doing.
Kill a king in an outdated way (as stated by the queen) start a rebellion, all because the thalmor brainwashed you into it: what Ulfric did.

It wasn't the legion that became divided its the nords killing other nords for a pointless war that Ulfric started.

So Ulfric is a fraud, everything he had going is all smoke and mirrors.

And nightingale, both sides are killing each other off, that's what the thalmor want.

[Wolfie]

Defend you land from a power hungry maniac with a hidden agenda: what legion is doing.

Show me proof he is a powwer hury maniac, that has ahiddren agenda, thats a ophion of him, thaty YOU made.

Kill a king in an outdated way (as stated by the queen) start a rebellion, all because the thalmor brainwashed you into it: what Ulfric did.

#1 the queen never says its out dated, nor dose anyone in the court, and of couse the queen is biased to the king
#2 no proof that the thalmor brain washed him in to it.

It wasn't the legion that became divided its the nords killing other nords for a pointless war that Ulfric started.

so you call fighting for the right to worsip your own gods pointless? a right to not have to obey someone eles becuse your so called protectors could not stop them?

So Ulfric is a fraud, everything he had going is all smoke and mirrors.

ophion once again, please use facts and not ophions.


And even then even if Uffric is so bad, the cause is not, should they not worship a God becuse Thalmor want to be all high and mighty? the Jals never got a cahnce to deny the agreement, they had to acept it, this way they can get their RIGHT to worship their own Gods, and help the empire fight the Thalmor which is what they need to do.

[Nightingale]

And nightingale, both sides are killing each other off, that's what the thalmor want.

Well yes, obviously. The game doesn't do a very good job of describing the situation, so it's left open to interpretation. While Ulfric was in Thalmor custody, they sort of pushed him into his current personality, which started the civil war. However, this does not mean he is in league with the Thalmor, that he is a Thalmor sleeper agent, or any of those things. He hates them, and he hates the Empire, who he views as puppets and cowards.

Once again, he is not rebelling on orders from the Thalmor, they merely indirectly influenced his opinion a bit because they wanted a civil war to happen. He's working off his own agenda now.

[Rynkar]

Well yes, but they can easily activate him at will and I think that he wouldn't be very popular with his army if a code word or something like that would turn him on his own.

[Nightingale]

Well yes, but they can easily activate him at will and I think that he wouldn't be very popular with his army if a code word or something like that would turn him on his own.

It doesn't say anything like that, anywhere.

You may have misinterpreted the Thalmor Dossier. He isn't working for them, they just pushed his buttons to cause the civil war.

He can't be "activated" or anything like that.

[Wolfie]

Well yes, but they can easily activate him at will and I think that he wouldn't be very popular with his army if a code word or something like that would turn him on his own.

Thats not what sleeper agent means at all...

[Arch-Mage Matt]

He is a sleeper agent and is being manipulated by the thalmor to wage war on the empire, but he doesn't know it so he thinks he cause is just.
But tell his followers that they are basically being used by elves and bam, no more followers.

No offense, but it seems like you should do some double checking before you get your facts in the future. The Dossier is everything that the Thalmor have on Ulfric. The Thalmor may have pushed Ulfric along the right paths (Psst... The Empire is weakening... you should take Skyrim and become independent! We won't attack Stormcloak Skyrim, we promise.) but the bottom line is that the longer Skyrim is in a civil war, the weaker it is and the easier it is for the Thalmor to control.

You may have gotten the idea he was a sleeper agent by the word "Dormant" but I believe that the word refers to the fact that Ulfric Stormcloak has become too independent and is likely to refuse further Thalmor aid.